For Budding Buddhists...not to shove it down your throat!

[Guest]

Interesting related link

Interesting related link

How ironic that we are all talking about this and I just found this.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051123/ap_on_re_as/nepal_buddha

 

[BushyOldGrower]

The Great Masters reincarnate and this buddha is the one. While the Dali lama is enlightened the claim to be this buddha just the thought brings tears to my eyes.

I have no idea if it's true but if it were this could be miraculous. Miracles are tricks really and they are only done to try and convince people that a person is a true prophet. They could be tricks however.

If this boy is my master then eventually I will know. Everyday I pray for the one to return to preach the truth once more.

We can look into the sky and cry, "Oh Lord" but imaginary GODS mean little without order in the universe and a way of peace on earth.

The fruits of his ministry will be the proof of whether or not he was true. of course I want to believe and I wonder why so many don't at least wish it were true. BOG

 

[newbgrow]

I understand Buddhism partially (at least I think I do), but I dont agree with it. The timeline in which we exist are nothing compared to the overall time of things, so to remove ourselves from all the worldly matters and realize that people will all go where they started from. Isn't that what all the monks do? - they have to pass "tests": to ignore and disassociate from family, to not drink, to not eat lavishly, to not be greedy or use any money, etc.

IMO the teachings of buddhism, as well as many ancient chinese idioms should only be learned for philosophical/theoretical knowledge, and not taken practically. I firmly disagree with being completely neutral and disregarding all wordly matters.

As quite a few authors (from ww2 era) says: evil stems from neutrality (not in those words, but you get the point). In other words, to be good is to fight for what you believe in, and speak only what you think is right. If you think about it this way, isnt western religions/philosophies quite different than the east. In the west people are taught to respect their neighbors and families. This is how I translate the 10 Commandments: what Jesus REALLY wanted to say is to treat everyone around us right and be respectful and generous to each other. He spread the word and we carry it on, IMO, many people have read it wrong. (Or maybe I did lol)

On the opposite of the spectrum, we have taoism, buddhism, etc., that tell us we should ignore all this for the overall good of the world - by abstaining from everything, complete neutrality. We should follow rules and not desire anything, and live in "peace" so to speak by ignoring all the "worldly" "humanly" things around us...

I think Jesus and Buddha have a similar purpose to bring out the good in people, but have completely different ways to achieve this - that is apparent in our cultures. So I'll have to disagree with you BOG.

By the way, I'm not religious in any way, just have a passing by interest in philosophy.

Although my dad used to attend buddhism seminars alot...

 

[newbgrow]

Upon reading this thread more I agree with Motley that Buddhism is about divesting one of egos. As for the "truth", I beleive the truth is: there is no truth. The truth is being open minded and realizing that everything exists for a mathematical reason, no matter how small, and it is impossible for any human being to calculate the complexities of the world. As Socrates say: the wise knows that he is not wise.

I believe in any philosophical context the "truth" means not trying to find out the truth. Deus Ex Machina if you will, by the greeks, the god of machines (or just any god in general) engineered this world and it is not MEANT to be discovered in entirety. That's the truth. You learn too much you'll turn into a fool.

I believe the "truth" in all religions is means just to accept what is there, and move on. More practically, you dont have to get angry when something bad happens, and just control your spiritual self to live a happier and more peaceful life, be a better person, and make the world around you better as well. IMHO people are analyzing too far

 

[Babbabud]

Human Desire

Human Desire

Nichiren Daishonin’s Buddhism helps shed light on this issue through the concept called “earthly desires are enlightenment.” The original term in Japanese is bon’no soku bodai. The Japanese word bon’no derives from the Chinese interpretation of the Sanskrit word klisa (or klesa), which means defilement, pain, affliction, distress, evil passion, moral depravity, worry, trouble, infection or contamination. The Chinese interpretation also implies delusions or temptations arising from passions or ignorance that disturb and distress the mind. The Japanese word soku means to be immediately present or to be the same as. And finally the Japanese word bodai is a transliteration of the Sanskrit bodhi, which means knowledge, understanding, perfect wisdom or the enlightened mind. Put simply, this Buddhist concept tells us that our desires and suffering—all that torments our mind— can be the source of wisdom and happiness.

On the surface, however, this concept is contradictory. Our desires often cause delusion and suffering, which are the exact opposite of wisdom and happiness. In this sense, defining desires as an obstacle to enlightenment, rather than as enlightenment, seems more reasonable. So the logical extension of this line of thought will be that we have to eliminate our desires in order to attain enlightenment. This is exactly what was taught in the monastic Theravada Buddhism, which the populist Mahayana (“Greater Vehicle”) Buddhists called Hinayana (“Lesser Vehicle”). Taking this view of desires to the extreme, Theravada Buddhism taught the annihilation of self through religious austerities. In other words, as long as we have a body and mind, we will continue to suffer from our desires. So we must reduce ourselves to nothing, or so those Theravada monks thought.

The Daishonin’s Buddhism, however, explains that both “earthly desires” and “enlightenment” are intrinsic to our lives. So any intent to deny either is itself a delusion. In this regard, the Daishonin states: “Among those who wish to become Buddhas through attempting to eradicate earthly desires and shunning the lower nine worlds, there is not one ordinary per-son who actually attained enlightenment. This is because Buddhahood cannot exist apart from the lower nine worlds” (Gosho Zenshu, p. 403). The Daishonin defines “earthly desires” as “the obstacles to one’s practice which arise from greed, anger, stupidity and the like” (The Major Writings of Nichiren Daishonin, vol. 1, p. 145). Earthly desires such as greed, anger, stupidity, arrogance and doubt have a negative influence upon our lives, causing delusion and suffering. The Daishonin teaches that since such earthly desires are ever-present, we must develop wisdom and inner strength so that they do not influence us negatively, and so that we may transform these functions into a driving force for our spiritual growth.

The Daishonin stresses the importance of inner strength to control our “earthly desires” as he encourages us to “keep the three paths of earthly desires, karma and suffering in check” (GZ, 984). Desires give rise to actions, but when those desires are steeped in delusion, those actions create negative karma, which in turn leads to suffering, which gives rise to more desire, and so on.

THE key for us to develop inner strength to stem this negative cycle lies in our prayer to the Gohonzon, in our chanting of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo. The Daishonin states: “Believe in this mandala [the Gohonzon] with all your heart. Nam-myoho-renge-kyo is like the roar of a lion. What sickness can therefore be an obstacle?” (MW-1, 119). Though this was written to the parents of a child suffering from a physical illness, “sickness” can be broadly interpreted as earthly desires or all that causes spiritual or physical anguish such as problems with health, relationships, family harmony, money or career. As long as we firmly believe in the Gohonzon and continue to chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, no suffering or hardship can be an obstacle to our happiness. With a powerful prayer to the Gohonzon, our earthly desires not only cease to cause suffering, but also become an impetus for our wisdom and happiness. The fact that they motivate us to chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with a strong prayer in itself suggests the transformation of earthly desires into enlightenment. To illustrate this point, the Daishonin states: “Through burning the firewood of earthly desires, one can manifest the wisdom-fire of enlightenment” (GZ, 710).
Nam myoho renge kyo

 

[OXOSSI]

What is the sound of one hand?

 

[newbgrow]

babbabud that was really educational and entertaining read, thanks, that sums it all up folks, so i guess what i was describing was the "lesser vehicle" which happens to be the more widely accepted version... however i would have to agree that it is possible and in fact more plausible to obtain "enlightenment" WITH earthly desires. It's all in the state of mind - if you can learn to take distress and suffering and look at it with just another passing experience, and not get hung up over it, in my interpretation that would be the "enlightenment" the buddhists are talking about?

That is to accept yourself, and your situation as what it is, and make the best of it. In this light, "peace" is really dependant on your inner strength, regardless of what is happening around you.

What do other people think of this? Is this what "enlightenment" means?

 

[guineapig]

hmmmmm........still thinking.......yes that sounds quite good to me......it has to do with knowledge of the impermanence of being and the inevitability of suffering.....

for me it arrives in the forms of visions and dreams and hallucinations.....

but study and reading the texts is also necessary and lays the foundations upon which the images appear......

-gp

 

[Babbabud]

For more information on Nichiren Daishonins Buddhism check out this thread http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=3819

 

[BushyOldGrower]

Finding the common truths would be called comparative theology and I think it is taught in some colleges. The worth of the study would seem evident to me because I agree with many people who feel that all religions are basically the same. Promoting the same values and ways of treating family and others. The quality of mercy and compassion seems worthy to all major and minor religions and in most cases cruelty in any form is wrong. Respect for all living things and appreciation of beauty would seem to be good places for anyone seeking the truth to start out but dont agree with me.

My thoughts are no better than anyone's. If a religion preaches positive behaviors its good sociology but is it truth? That depends. The earth isnt flat but many once thought it was and some still do. You can't prove to flat earthers that the world isnt flat and they say "just look". It seems a no brainer to them that the earth is flat and that the rest of the herd is crazy.

Sometimes all this gets pretty complicated and we often just put it aside. That's fine because when the time is right you may read a book or find something you see as interesting. I find many things interesting and Buddhism is a current study but I don't have to agree with everything either. Never have I read a book in which I agreed with every word.

What we could do is try and see the common truths however and then assume that at least those are worthy of consideration as truth. Perhaps one would be the idea that murder is wrong or that war is wrong.

Of course people will object to this but I think war is morally wrong and even though a part of this world I dont think its right. That's why I agree that violence is wrong and that only to directly protect someone can it be used. Dont let a child be harmed in your sight of course but people wish to extend this to the point of justifying invading another country.

To me all religions are the same and a lot of other people agree with me.

What is truth? We seek it. It is the fact of the universe. It is pure science and pure religion because as I have said many times, "whatever the facts are thats the truth".

Many things are facts like the temperature of the sun but other things are opinions.

That's why we are here talking. BOG

 

[Guest]

I think all the religions are somewhat similar, as far as what they stand for.

Even hinduism makes sense, The indians entire culture is about life and death the there are drougts for months, then the monsoons come and a week later the earth is plentiful and lush, why is this? oh the gods of course and our gods are so extreme we have to do crazy and painfull things to please them and show our loyalty.

Religion is based on a cultures necessity to explain the super natural, and at the same time control the citizens thoughts to a point. More people have been killed in the name of god than anything else, that says a bit about the people that are so devout that they destroy everything in the way of "their god".

Religion adopted by your own beliefs can be a very good thing, but just because your agnostic dosent mean your cold or weak it just means you dont need to believe their is a god to be content and happy with the life you are living until you die, and "nothing happens".

 

[BushyOldGrower]

Being agnostic means you are saying, "I don't know" and that's a very safe position. It avoids arguments as well. Perhaps you are the wisest among us Pod.

The negatives of the differing religions seem as similar as their positives. As in all things like yin and yang, light opposes darkness.

Knowledge encroaches on ignorance as well. BOG

Happy ThanksGiving Weekend Everyone...

 

[newbgrow]

That's just the thing BOG. I think that the "truth" as you may call it is that there is no one truth or fact. Isn't that the basis of all religions? "Do not try to understand God just beleive in him"? The fact is, there are so many unpredictabilities in the world that it is impossible for one person to comprehend it all. So they invented God. God is the answer to all our ignorances, and that's the "truth". We, as humans, weren't meant to find out the "secret of the universe", or the "meaning of life", so the closest truth is to forget about the truth. And anyone seeking this will just run in circles and lose their way. In this case, the smartest guy is also the stupidest guy, who doesnt give a crap about all this...

I think religions are just a set of folktales with moral lessons told in a confusing way - they are a set of basic rules and guidelines to live by so to speak, and nothing more. If you replace every character in the Bible with what they stand for, they become archetypal tales of the good going to heaven/being awarded, and the bad punished.

I am surprised that most Christians and Buddhists alike to to church/temple and pray every day but doesnt realize this simple fact - the moral lessons side of it. Alot of people will tell you that "going to church on sunday and praying every day and reading the bible" makes you a good christian, but not knowing whats right from wrong? Same thing with Buddhism, there are plenty of monks who read the scriptures every day but dont follow the rules themselves.

 

[BushyOldGrower]

You can say that there are many truths and thats true. However gravity has a certain amount of attraction for any mass of a certain size given the distance away. This fact may be difficult to understand but it is a fact and it doesnt change.

Thats what I mean. Of course we decide what is true to us but that's another thing entirely and not the same for each individual for certain. What is the same is the universe in which we all live and its laws. We can imagine whatever we please but truths we create just for ourselves are actually fictional and we see things as our minds interpret.

Given our limitations knowing all the truth will never be possible at this level of evolution but someone once may have comprehended an interconnected truth that is real and that many have tried to describe. I dunno. BOG

 

[Verite]

What is the sound of one hand?

Am I in the forest alone or in front of the computer? Big chubby difference there.

 

[newbgrow]

Scientists are fools. They are trying to open pandora's box

 

[Guest]

I live by the Common Sense comandments.. Just be cool to people and don't do anything extreme when bad shit happens to you.. Not saying be a doormatt, just be cool.. And besides, It alls weighs out when we are feeding the worms!!

 

[OXOSSI]

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/tracingboard.html

 

[BushyOldGrower]

Scientists arent fools and as I said, "truth is truth" and if derived from science or otherwise different things have their realms. Philosophy thinks about things science can't really ever prove but deductions might.

The hindu's envisioned a spirit world that was inhabited by all sorts of spirits, demons, angels, GODs and such. A place we went when we died between lives I guess.

It is fun to imagine our dead friends and relatives up there in heaven or in the spirit world but perhaps we just go into nirvana when we die. Until the next birth.

Maybe we are really all the same thing manifesting over and over and bathing in ectasy between lives of sufferring and pain.

To me even the sufferring isn't so bad. When I get in a mess it occurs to me to ask what I did to deserve it. In my heart I really know karma is true.

My mom believes in hell for justice but as long as there is a system I'm satisfied and I believe there is a system.

My brain is too small to hold the whole concept all at once but it has and it can do so. There is a switch in the brain that allows us superhuman intellect in this life.

Find that switch and turn it on. See the light and then share your light.

Seek and ye shall find my friend. BOG

 

[Babbabud]

Nam myoho renge kyo !!

Nam myoho renge kyo !!

Nam-myoho-renge-kyo is a chant or mantra.
A mantra is a powerful phrase that is said with a certain concentration or intent.
A mantra has meaning in and of itself, but the intention or concentration of the person who says it can make a big difference in the effect of the chant.

For example: Have you ever dated someone for a while and you were pretty sure that he or she loved you, and you loved that person too, but you hadn't told each other yet?
You know that feeling? When you say, "I love you," it has the power to change your life in ways you probably can't imagine.
A mantra is like that. When you say it, it can fundamentally change your life.

Some people use "love" very casually. They say "I love this," or "I love it," or "Love ya."
It doesn't have the same weight as when a person considers his or her feelings very seriously before saying "I love you."
Usually, the mantra Nam-myoho-renge-kyo is said over and over again.
Maybe it would sound kind of crazy to chant "I love you I love you I love you" a thousand times a day.

It's not so crazy -- actually it's pretty common these days -- to hear cuss words out of someone's mouth a thousand times a day.
Sometimes, people repeat insults and complaints as if they are mantras.
So, "chants" of one type or another are a part of everyday life.

Have you ever noticed that if you hang out with people who cuss a lot or use a certain phrase, after a while you end up using the same language?
Sometimes it's really hard to break yourself of the habit. This is an unfortunate example of how a phrase can be engraved on a person's consciousness.

It's probably better to get in the habit of saying a phrase that has a more uplifting influence, such as
Nam-myoho-renge-kyo.
Why chant the same phrase over and over?
Chanters repeat the mantra Nam-myoho-renge-kyo because, as mentioned, repetition engraves it in their consciousness (and their unconscious too.)
Since Nam-myoho-renge-kyo is such a great mantra, you might think that chanting it once or chanting it a thousand times would have the same effect.
Well, not necessarily. If you can say "Nam-myoho-renge-kyo" one time, but say it with profound faith, intention, concentration -- whatever you want to call it -- that one utterance packs a mighty wallop.
But most of us are not at a place in our "spiritual development" where we can summon up such profound faith at any given moment.

When we chant, with each repetition of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, we are rooting ourselves deeper in faith and deeper in the spiritual tradition of the Lotus Sutra.
Nam-myoho-renge-kyo is the heart and title of the Lotus Sutra. The Lotus Sutra teaches the enlightenment of all living beings. The Lotus Sutra's essence (Nam-myoho-renge-kyo) is the teacher of all Buddhas, past, present and future.
When we chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo we are strengthening our connection to and learning from the teacher of all Buddhas.

A very cool thing is that this great Buddha wisdom lives in each and every person.
It is the essence of life itself. So we are not chanting to some god or imaginary power. We are chanting the name of our innate wisdom, compassion, courage and energy. We are calling it up. We are engraving it on our heart. We are becoming more and more in tune with it.

But why this mantra? In many religious traditions, reciting a mantra is a well-established spiritual practice that has beneficial effects.
There are lots of other mantras aside from Nam-myoho-renge-kyo. "Om mani padme hum" is a famous mantra, for example. Maybe "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..." also qualifies as a mantra.
Mantras are different in that they have different meanings and create different vibrations.


A mantra is basically a vibration.

It is said that when you strike a tuning fork to make it vibrate, it can make other nearby tuning forks that are pitched to the same frequency start to vibrate spontaneously.
It sets off a "chain reaction" of vibration because the forks are all tuned into the same frequency.
Similarly, the vibe we create when we chant triggers vibration not only in the depths of our life, but in our surroundings.
As we tune ourselves more and more to the vibe of this Buddha wisdom, we resonate with the Buddha vibe that is in other people and in our environment. The vibration of chanting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo awakens innate Buddha qualities everywhere in a sort of chain reaction.
People have been chanting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo for centuries and there are lots of ways to explain it. While not everyone agrees on why it works, most chanters agree that it is a worthwhile devotional practice.
The best way to understand it is to chant and see for yourself.

This is written by Lisa Jones