X15
Well-known member
Hey @Thighland got a room I can rent? Lol
You are so very right about the rules in the us.
You are so very right about the rules in the us.
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Fish tank water for fertilizing
- Thread starter Thighland
- Start date
A worm farmer I know of has a hydroponic lettuce grow. He has a small coy fish tank that overflows into the lettuce water. That is the fertilizer. When I feed outside plants with pond water they do well. Probably too much N for flower though.The reality is it's a viable model without the sanitary/health issues you're thinking of. I've read several studies the last few months on the feasibility of raising Animals/Fish/Plants in this type of cycle and it's excellent. Multiple countries now have studies on projects which are showing similar benefits.
The best manure so far is rabbit, due to the water quality and clarity increases combined with the nutrient density and health of the fish. Yes, the rabbit manure makes the water cleaner and clearer while also being free of human pathogens.
Too much N is something I'm a little concerned about. It's not high, less than 80ppm, but the K is too low for it to be a balanced fertilizer for flowering, which is why I'm making compost and castings from banana skins.
I still water during flowering though, should I be on lookout for signs of too much N?
X15
Well-known member
Hey @Thighland Potent Ponics has an episode in which they discuss fermentation of banana peels in drums. I’m forgetting the name of the guest he had on but it was really interesting and they spoke of crazy high levels of K in what was the final product. I’d check it out.
Are you worried you’re accumulating too much N in the ground with the ppm in h2o? Or does it seem like the plant is taking up a good amount after every application?
Looks great!
Are you worried you’re accumulating too much N in the ground with the ppm in h2o? Or does it seem like the plant is taking up a good amount after every application?
Looks great!
X15
Well-known member
Growing With Fishes 251 Quoc Khanh Pham Talking KNF In Vietnam
Growing With Fishes Podcast. A podcast dedicated to growing aquaponic & cannabis and spreading information to the masses about sustainable cannabis and veggie production! Stoney Scholar Family Relief
soundcloud.app.goo.gl
I believe that’s it @Thighland
From the pic you posted things look good to me. Your idea of wanting to balance the N is a good plan. But as she gets older she will take what she wants as long as it’s there.
The truth is that I too, had asked the same thing. Personally it was one of my favorite specimens.
howdy ya'll!
one of my uncles in the mississippi delta was a large scale catfish farmer. he had 32 18 acre ponds. i worked for him a couple of summers when i was about 13. so I learned some basic fish keeping there.
at the age of 25 i moved to key west and began a career diving for live marine specimens for zoos and aquariums. after five years there i moved to puerto rico and worked there another 15 years shipping live marine animals. i designed and built all my holding facilities.
although i have never built and operated an aquaponic system i have studied it with interest for years because i grow weed and have always dreamed of a self-sustaining system.
one of the first problems you will encounter is that nitrogen in excess is toxic to fish.
fish waste is converted from ammonia to nitrite by bacteria. and then converted to nitrate also by bacteria.
both the ammonium form and the nitrite form are very toxic in a closed system and bacterial conversion to the nitrate form is critically monitored.
depending on species, nitrate at low levels is not toxic but becomes so as the level ramps up.
how this applies to growing plants depends on which plants you are growing.
vegetative low light crops can be grown using the fish water recirculated as the plants help keep the solution from becoming toxic.
the complexity begins ramping up when you try to raise a high-light flowering plant.
this is because the plant's nitrogen needs are at a level that is almost immediately toxic to most fish species.
because the cannabis plant has high nitrogen needs and the fish have low needs you will not be able to grow a quality cannabis plant using only the fish water applied directly.
the solution to this disparity is to use a concentration tank.
you evaporate the fish solution until you get the desired nitrate level.
but lately, about a year now, i've been incorporating worm castings into a recirculating hydro system.
i like what i'm seeing.
also, @Douglas.Curtis has mentioned the use of rabbit pellets. an excellent source of cold manure.
so, i see the use of fish waste growing cannabis as a viable component of your mixed source feed if you use it straight but not as the primary feed unless you concentrate it.
it would be an expensive source of fertilizer unless you really want to raise food fish for personal consumption, which i do.
if you are already raising fish then why not?
one of my uncles in the mississippi delta was a large scale catfish farmer. he had 32 18 acre ponds. i worked for him a couple of summers when i was about 13. so I learned some basic fish keeping there.
at the age of 25 i moved to key west and began a career diving for live marine specimens for zoos and aquariums. after five years there i moved to puerto rico and worked there another 15 years shipping live marine animals. i designed and built all my holding facilities.
although i have never built and operated an aquaponic system i have studied it with interest for years because i grow weed and have always dreamed of a self-sustaining system.
one of the first problems you will encounter is that nitrogen in excess is toxic to fish.
fish waste is converted from ammonia to nitrite by bacteria. and then converted to nitrate also by bacteria.
both the ammonium form and the nitrite form are very toxic in a closed system and bacterial conversion to the nitrate form is critically monitored.
depending on species, nitrate at low levels is not toxic but becomes so as the level ramps up.
how this applies to growing plants depends on which plants you are growing.
vegetative low light crops can be grown using the fish water recirculated as the plants help keep the solution from becoming toxic.
the complexity begins ramping up when you try to raise a high-light flowering plant.
this is because the plant's nitrogen needs are at a level that is almost immediately toxic to most fish species.
because the cannabis plant has high nitrogen needs and the fish have low needs you will not be able to grow a quality cannabis plant using only the fish water applied directly.
the solution to this disparity is to use a concentration tank.
you evaporate the fish solution until you get the desired nitrate level.
but lately, about a year now, i've been incorporating worm castings into a recirculating hydro system.
i like what i'm seeing.
also, @Douglas.Curtis has mentioned the use of rabbit pellets. an excellent source of cold manure.
so, i see the use of fish waste growing cannabis as a viable component of your mixed source feed if you use it straight but not as the primary feed unless you concentrate it.
it would be an expensive source of fertilizer unless you really want to raise food fish for personal consumption, which i do.
if you are already raising fish then why not?
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i almost got a divorce because of that shit. i had a container with the alaska fert in it with a lid on in a hot room with the plants. i had forgotten about it and when i opened it the smell was beyond description.
so i picked it up and went to dump it in the commode while my wife was in the shower.
she came out choking and gagging, cussing like a drunk sailor, and threatened to cut me off from all about her that i liked.
she sure looks hot when she's naked and pissed!
Thanks for the input, there's a lot of good info in your post.
In regards to the nitrogen and fish health, it depends a lot on the species. Tilipia are popular and difficult to kill apparently, but I had no problem. Catfish seem the toughest, they can live in mud. N in AP it too high for flowering plants and too low in K. Nutrient levels in AP are different to hydro, nitrates at 80ppm are considered high, but the fish will be fine. Some systems run fine at 0ppm, which means they are in good balance between fish and plants, (a system running at 0ppm nitrates would be useless for what I'm doing.
In regards to a concentration tank, I suppose a filter could be considered that, as it contains solids in the form of fish poo and worm castings. The filter is also where much of the microorganisms are concentrated. For watering I turn off the pump and drain the tank onto garden beds. I will often add seaweed exrtract and EM, also maybe an air store for an hour or two before draining.
So I am not growing flowering plants in AP, only leafy greens due to the nutrients not being balanced enough (lack of K). The flowering plants are in garden beds, fed with AP water. I have banana peels which I'm composting, as well as feeding to worms. The idea is to have soil or wicking beds high in the nutrients that AP lacks.
Several people have commented that it's costly. I don't really understand why. One thousand liter IBCs are cheap. Then you'd need a smaller container as a filter for bioconversion and solids collection, plus a pump for circulation. A 25kg bag or fish food was $10, this will last about 12 months. By raising BSF larvae and/or duckweed, feed can become free. The filter is above ground level, so no pump needed for drainage.
@Thighland what you are doing is fine for soil. for the plants. the combination of all your fertilizer sources will probably grow nice vegetative plants.
but 80 ppm nitrate in a fish tank is way too high for the fish. most saltwater species 5-10 ppm is considered ideal for fish health.
freshwater species 10-20 ppm.
the first product the fish produce is un-ionized ammonia (nh3) this is so toxic that .5 ppm will start burning gills and causing severe stress.
2 ppm nh3 in freshwater causes death.
so, i'm sure you are familiar with the aquarium nitrogen cycle and the use of biological filters to convert fish waste.
you can also de-gas nh3 with aeration.
if you are running on standard aquarium principles you monitor nh3, nh4, and no3 individually.
but maybe the best way would be to have the fish in a tank with no biological filter at all.
a large body of water with a set bio-mass of fish being fed well but lightly to eliminate waste.
the larger volume makes monitoring the nh3 less critical.
monitor that tank for nh3 toxicity. as it approaches the toxic level you simply do a major water change by pumping 90% of the water over into a tank that is set up for full biological conversion to nitrate.
this tank would have no fish in it.
but maybe you could just water your plants with the no3 water as part of the feed.
in my case i would want to do the full conversion and concentration to no3 routine because i want to flower cannabis with it hydroponically.
editing to correct
but 80 ppm nitrate in a fish tank is way too high for the fish. most saltwater species 5-10 ppm is considered ideal for fish health.
freshwater species 10-20 ppm.
the first product the fish produce is un-ionized ammonia (nh3) this is so toxic that .5 ppm will start burning gills and causing severe stress.
2 ppm nh3 in freshwater causes death.
so, i'm sure you are familiar with the aquarium nitrogen cycle and the use of biological filters to convert fish waste.
you can also de-gas nh3 with aeration.
if you are running on standard aquarium principles you monitor nh3, nh4, and no3 individually.
but maybe the best way would be to have the fish in a tank with no biological filter at all.
a large body of water with a set bio-mass of fish being fed well but lightly to eliminate waste.
the larger volume makes monitoring the nh3 less critical.
monitor that tank for nh3 toxicity. as it approaches the toxic level you simply do a major water change by pumping 90% of the water over into a tank that is set up for full biological conversion to nitrate.
this tank would have no fish in it.
but maybe you could just water your plants with the no3 water as part of the feed.
in my case i would want to do the full conversion and concentration to no3 routine because i want to flower cannabis with it hydroponically.
editing to correct
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I actually have no idea of my N levels, I stopped measuring a few years ago and just monitor plants for health. Feeding the fish and not adding water will increase levels, this is what I would do if I wanted stronger nutes. Then top the water up afterwards.
What you say about fish is true, but if we stopped focusing on them it all becomes simpler. So I use the toughest fish I can find, catfish. They have been in for years, some have died, mostly from jumping out. The tank is 800 lts, I don't harvest any fish. Six weeks ago I added 50 tilapia to a smaller tank, none have died. The greens in my AP system are doing great too.
I remember being impressed by a post saying ppl go organic with the idea of letting nature do the work, but before long they are adding air pumps and test kits etc. I like simplicity.
I'm happy with the results on my ganga, although there does seem to be a touch of N burn on the leaf tips, so I will back off a little on the fish feed and maybe switch to plain water.
What you say about fish is true, but if we stopped focusing on them it all becomes simpler. So I use the toughest fish I can find, catfish. They have been in for years, some have died, mostly from jumping out. The tank is 800 lts, I don't harvest any fish. Six weeks ago I added 50 tilapia to a smaller tank, none have died. The greens in my AP system are doing great too.
I remember being impressed by a post saying ppl go organic with the idea of letting nature do the work, but before long they are adding air pumps and test kits etc. I like simplicity.
I'm happy with the results on my ganga, although there does seem to be a touch of N burn on the leaf tips, so I will back off a little on the fish feed and maybe switch to plain water.
And low fish stock. There are two filters with netting to trap solids and house bacteria, plus the grow beds where more bacteria and worms live. All this is constantly circulating and splashing for oxygenation, the GH is a nice place to be in the mornings.
Once the N cycle is working, you really only need to monitor nitrate and ease off on food or drain if levels get too high. Problems are most likely to occur with pump failure. Our electricity can be cut off for hours without warning, only happens once a year, but is enough to kill the fish. I had this problem with tilapia, but not catfish.
Through water changes to keep fish healthy, aquaculture pollutes waterways with organic N everyday, this could be used for agriculture and one day may.
really nice that you have balanced it all to work for you.
up until recently, i haven't had a place suitable for this kind of stuff but now have 3 acres to play with.
i enjoy fishkeeping and i prefer catfish for flavor over tilapia.
the only reason we're seeing more tilapia on the market than catfish is that tilapia get bigger faster and on less food.
as a 12-13 year old i ran trot lines across small rivers in the mississippi delta.
typically consisted of a parachute cord with baited hooks every 6 ft, i would tie the paracord to two trees and weigh it down with anything i could find so it stayed on the bottom.
i caught a lot of catfish with that rig. it would be a good way to procure stock for aquaculture tanks.
up until recently, i haven't had a place suitable for this kind of stuff but now have 3 acres to play with.
i enjoy fishkeeping and i prefer catfish for flavor over tilapia.
the only reason we're seeing more tilapia on the market than catfish is that tilapia get bigger faster and on less food.
as a 12-13 year old i ran trot lines across small rivers in the mississippi delta.
typically consisted of a parachute cord with baited hooks every 6 ft, i would tie the paracord to two trees and weigh it down with anything i could find so it stayed on the bottom.
i caught a lot of catfish with that rig. it would be a good way to procure stock for aquaculture tanks.
An overdue thanks for posting. I've only just got around to listening to this, it's brilliant. I had to turn it off half way through as I was cooking and couldn't concentrate, there is just too much information. It will take several listens to take it all in. The guy is doing aquaponics in Vietnam and creating his own organic nutes. He gets a huge amount of K from banana trunks. AP is low in K, so this an important step to truly organic hydroponics.View attachment 18780513Growing With Fishes 251 Quoc Khanh Pham Talking KNF In Vietnam
Growing With Fishes Podcast. A podcast dedicated to growing aquaponic & cannabis and spreading information to the masses about sustainable cannabis and veggie production! Stoney Scholar Family Relief
I believe that’s it @Thighland
From the pic you posted things look good to me. Your idea of wanting to balance the N is a good plan. But as she gets older she will take what she wants as long as it’s there.
There is a lot happening with organics in southeast Asia due to their large agriculture industries and the high price of organic produce. The guy is talking about techniques that haven't come to the West yet.
X15
Well-known member
I’m so glad you are enjoying it Bud. I have really enjoyed listening to those guys. I think I’ve heard all of them plus some a few extra times, lol my Brain sometimes struggles to capture it all… there’s so much great info!
They have done a great job educating their listeners in my opinion.
Big UPs Potent!
They have done a great job educating their listeners in my opinion.
Big UPs Potent!
