FF Ocean Forest+ FF Light Warrior = stress

[B00st3d]

Ok so two questions for whoever is reading. Whats the best way to add lime after I have already planted ? And a lil off topic but if Im lining the bottom of my containers with about an inch thick layer of hydroton, should I have treated the hydroton first like hydro growers do ? I did rinse it off to get the residue off but I didnt think about the PH of it until after I transplanted some seedlings today.

This has been frustrating for me here lately, I been growing on and off since the late 90's and never had PH issues or any real disasters for that matter until now. I got a bunch of herms after only 2 weeks of flowering, which I atribute to a combo of the LW messin with my PH and a massive dark cycle fuck up by my roomie about 5 nights ago. Thats the part of the reason I actually signed up on here. I've never needed help b4 cuz I've never had any problems with my results. Now here I am.

I think part of it is that I started tryin new soil mixes, new nutes, new things in general. And if it aint broke then dont fix it. Theres where I messed up tryin to fix sumthin that wasnt broke to begin with. So Im goin back to basics for me with my classic soil mix and simple nutes- FF Big bloom, tiger bloom, superthrive, and maxicrop. Im still not so sure bout this botanicare sweet I got or the EJ stuff I been startin to use. Theres no question the EJ stuff works but Im better off stickin to what I know works well in my system .

Also Im not so sure about this cheapo PH tester works so well. Im supposed to just stick in the dirt but it always seems like the needle never really moves or does anything for that matter. It always stays around 7. This is the first grow where I have had any need for really testin the PH as my plants have always responded well and yielded 3-6 ounces per 5 gallon bucket under 600s. Heck Im not even sure what my PH is in the dirt as of now. Should I invest in a PH pen or are those only good for hydro?

 

[Mr Celsius]

Ok so two questions for whoever is reading. Whats the best way to add lime after I have already planted ? And a lil off topic but if Im lining the bottom of my containers with about an inch thick layer of hydroton, should I have treated the hydroton first like hydro growers do ? I did rinse it off to get the residue off but I didnt think about the PH of it until after I transplanted some seedlings today.

This has been frustrating for me here lately, I been growing on and off since the late 90's and never had PH issues or any real disasters for that matter until now. I got a bunch of herms after only 2 weeks of flowering, which I atribute to a combo of the LW messin with my PH and a massive dark cycle fuck up by my roomie about 5 nights ago. Thats the part of the reason I actually signed up on here. I've never needed help b4 cuz I've never had any problems with my results. Now here I am.

I think part of it is that I started tryin new soil mixes, new nutes, new things in general. And if it aint broke then dont fix it. Theres where I messed up tryin to fix sumthin that wasnt broke to begin with. So Im goin back to basics for me with my classic soil mix and simple nutes- FF Big bloom, tiger bloom, superthrive, and maxicrop. Im still not so sure bout this botanicare sweet I got or the EJ stuff I been startin to use. Theres no question the EJ stuff works but Im better off stickin to what I know works well in my system .

Also Im not so sure about this cheapo PH tester works so well. Im supposed to just stick in the dirt but it always seems like the needle never really moves or does anything for that matter. It always stays around 7. This is the first grow where I have had any need for really testin the PH as my plants have always responded well and yielded 3-6 ounces per 5 gallon bucket under 600s. Heck Im not even sure what my PH is in the dirt as of now. Should I invest in a PH pen or are those only good for hydro?

Well the first question is, why do you want to add lime? Do you want the Ca+ Mg+ or to raise the ph?

I don't think you'll be needing to treat the hydroton clay balls. The CEC of clay probably means that there isn't much salt buildup on it.

Hermi's suck dude, been there... Dutchmaster makes a product called reverse (not organic) that will make the male pollen sterile, it'll stop the seeds from coming.

Yup, stick to what you know, usually works best. Ej's stuff often runs a very low ph, I dunno how much you've been using it.

Being able to measure the PH runoff of your soil is VERY useful. I would suggest getting a ph meter, and some calibration solution to make sure its accurate. If you believe your problems stem from ph problems, then I would get the ph asap.

Hope some of this helps!

 

[B00st3d]

Well I already chopped the hermies actually. Out of 14 females I had , 9 have ended up bein herms and thats just 2 weeks in so something went very very wrong. I havent had herms b4 maybe week 6 ever that I can remember.

I did have 15 recons and d-lines goin also in another room tho . I put 10 of them into a 40/40/20 blend today like I mentioned and I hope it works well for me. Tomorow I have 5 more of them to transplant and another 17 popped seeds or so to put into lil squares. Im still not sure yet what Im gonna use. The FF soil is just too expensive for me at this point and Im startin to run low on funds.

As for the lime I want it for everything, the cal-mag it gives as well as the PH buffer. Im startin to wonder if my PH is a bit high tho. Ya know I tried to buy a nice PH pen at the hydro shop and the owner insisted I didnt need it for dirt so I stuck with my chepo rapitest ph meter. I dont think its getin the job done tho. I do wanna go back to promix based mix but at this point it seems like so much hassle to just get sum more FFOF and sum perlite and be done with the hassle of doin alot of mixin.

The EJ stuff I havent been usin very much. The catalyst is the only one I been usin almost every feeding. I just started givin them a 1/2 tsp of the EJ bloom in the last few days or so. And I used 1/2 tsp microblast for one watering. I also got some sweet but I think I might just wait till late flowerin till I use that and Im gonna use it sparingly.

All I know is that my last harv was my best overall ever and it consisted of 40+ ounces off of three 600's. I used FFOF/Perlite/Vermiculite and that was it. I need to stop tryin all this new stuff and get back to basics. What really sux is that Im down to my last 2 skunkberries and if they end up bein herms too then I have totally lost that strain as I am out of the seeds I made a few years back. I spent years gettin to know how to grow this strain and now Im faced with the possibility of losin it forever. I dont wanna clone the ones that are left if they end up hermin too ya know.

 

[Mr Celsius]

You wont lose your strain. It is obvious that it'll hermi if stressed, but just take clones and stick to the basics.

Dolomitic lime will actually raise your ph even higher... any Ca+ or Mg+ will raise ph. Its often used in peat based soil because peat is really low in ph. If you ph is below 6.5 then your plants can't absorb Mg or Ca, if its above 6.5 your plants can't absorb Fe or Mn.

Ph Problems

One of the first signs of having a slight ph problem is, your plant having part of the leaves kind of twisty, spotty with brown, yellowish, red spots within each other.
Sometimes they don’t have to have all the colors, they could just be spots that have yellowish brown, or just reddish brown and can happen anywhere on the plant. Mainly starts on big fan leaves then goes to little leaves.
When this happens you need to check your soil ph, water ph before and after adding your nutrients. One of the biggest causes is adding nutrients like earth juice; they take the ph down quite a bit. Also can happen when you add bone and blood meal to your soil, that will throw the ph off as well, so it’s smart to test the mix before putting your plants into the mix. After the spots happen you will soon see nutrients being locked out, when that happens DO NOT ADD ANYTHING TO FIX THE PROBLEM UNTILL YOU GET YOUR PH FIXED!! Reason why is, because the plant isn’t absorbing that nutrient, by adding the nutrient it is deficient in, you are causing it to have a build up in the soil therefore can cause that nutrient to become toxic to the plant, because of buildup, to much buildup of certain nutrients will lock out other nutrients. In order to fix the problem you will need to first fix the ph and then if the soil is deficient in nutrients you can add it to fix the problem. A digital PH tester is the best tester to use as they are the most accurate. If you can’t afford a digital ph meter, then your best bet is to get ph testing papers. DO NOT get soil testers, those are the cheapest junk I ever seen and do not give good readings, so you cant rely on one of those. There are a lot of good ph testers out there, one of them is hanna. That is the one I use and is the best money ever spent! Vast majority of problems with soil ph comes from the soil if it has additives like peat moss, which is HILGY acidic..... and or the water you are using, as well as nutrient deficiencies from using the wrong ph for watering. You want to be careful when adjusting your ph, doing this over a week is the best idea, to fast will cause shock to the plant. If you can’t get a hold of a ph tester or ph test papers. If you have some dolomite lime, its always better to use it in soil rather than every time you water, imo and from others (Uncle Ben) That it really doesn’t stabilize as many people think it does, Soil pH and micronutrient availability are interrelated. Don’t Use to much lime to decrease the soil pH to a point where micronutrients can't be unavailable to plants. The micronutrients affected by pH include iron, manganese, zinc and, not as often copper. The problems when you apply to much lime can make it harder to correct your ph than what you would have when you didn’t add as much lime. You can always add more lime, but if you add to much you can’t remove it if you put to much lime in the soil. With great soil moisture, lime will work immediately and pH will start to change over a few months. However, it can take up to a year for the real benefit of lime to work. As the soil pH rises, the time it takes for lime to react decreases due to lower levels of soil acids. If you need to change your ph when its to high, if you choose to use lime it will not help as much as you think in lowering your ph, it would need alot of lime to lower your ph to a point where it would cause a toxicity to the plants so look else where to use something to lower your ph rather than using lime.

Get your ph tested, accurately, and then figure out what the next step is.

 

[B00st3d]

Thats some useful info in that quote MR C so thanks. I realized that I didnt chop 2 of my hermies, they were sittin on a table waitin to be chopped so I went back in there and put them back under the lights. That leaves me with 7 big plants flowering. Hopefully I can find this Reverse product locally or else Im screwed.

And Im goin to get a better PH testin method, prolly a nice pen. Which pen should I get anyways? I agree tho , I need to get a better idea of what my PH is b4 I make my next step. Im assuming that just FFOF and perlite would net a PH around mid six range , right? Since the perlite has no effect on the PH right ? Whats the PH of FFOF ?So if I stuck with that basic blend I wouldnt have to worry bout my PH except the water itself. I dont get any runoff really with the FFOF blend Im using. That stuff doesnt have very good drainage compared to promix/perlite/ewc IMO.

The transplants from yesterday are showin no signs of stress tho so Im pleased with that at least. My budget's startin to run so low on this that Im actually washing old square containers today and re-using them which I rarely do. Thanks for your imput MR C, its apreciated.

EDIT: My local shop ordered the DM Revere for me as well as a few bags of FF Big chunky perlite . In addition to that I got 3 more bags of FFOF so I should be ok. I wanna do some more research today on what PH pen to get b4 I go back down there and buy one tho so any input on pens or other ph testin methods would be great. I am noticin that the 5 DNA's that I didnt transplant yesterday arent lookin so good. Im pretty sure its the EJ i been givin them which lowered the PH but I'll know more later tonite once I get a PH pen and test it out. So for now Im gonna stop using the EJ line and stick with maxicrop, superthrive , FF Big bloom and Tiger bloom FTW. What can I do for the 5 lil plants that look like they have a PH issue ? Asuming Im right and the PH is too low for them due to the promix/EJ , then what should I add to them to raise the PH? Can I just use sum lime juice ?

 

[Krakatoa]

I'm not sure about the distribution outside the West Coast, but Whitney Farms' "Uncle Malcom's Organic Potting Soil" was the best out-of-the-bag soil I could find back when I was a soil guy.

 

[BurnOne]

pH in organics is taken care of at the root level. Humic acids in the soil will buffer the pH so the plants can take up nutes through their roots at extreme pH ranges. Check the first page of the STICKY at the top of this forum "Organics for Beginners".
Burn1

 

[Mr Celsius]

Humates act like clay particles, in the sense that they have receptor sites on them for particles to bond to. This doesn't mean it will correct all your ph problems, you still need to input proper ph levels. Microbes will also regulate ph as they breakdown and consume organic matter. Humates help buffer ph and chelate nutrients, but if you put a ph of 9 everytime in your soil, your gonna have problems.

As for the ph pen... kinda doesn't matter tooooo much but I like Milwakees and the Toucheons* (spelling problem).

FFOF has a good ph because it was peat (low ph) brought up to an acceptable level via oyster shells (high ph + Ca+ Mg+).

As for perlite:

Perlite has a very low cation exchange capacity, low water-holding capacity (19%), and neutral pH.

You can use any fertilizer you like, so long as you ph it. Fulvic acid is a great ph down and silica is a great ph up. Fulvic acid also chelate's nutrients for uptake in a wider ph spectrum. Fulvic acid is a by product of Humic acid; often derived from leonardite or worm castings.

Edit: Forgot to say the benefits of silica: Silica will strengthen the cell walls of the plant and greatly assist in preventing growth of molds; I.E. bud rot (Phytophthora) and powdery mildew (Blumeria graminis),

 

[BurnOne]

I've dumped tons of guano tea onto my soil at pH 9 and never had a problem. I've used tons of Pure Blend Pro at pH 4 and never had a problem. I used it like that for years before I ever bought a pH pen. As a matter of fact, the only time I ever had a pH problem was when I bought that damn pH pen.
Burn1

 

[Mr Celsius]

I've dumped tons of guano tea onto my soil at pH 9 and never had a problem. I've used tons of Pure Blend Pro at pH 4 and never had a problem. I used it like that for years before I ever bought a pH pen. As a matter of fact, the only time I ever had a pH problem was when I bought that damn pH pen.
Burn1

Hmm, well my soil science book has taught me otherwise. But then again, I really don't know all of the circumstances that have worked so well for you. I mean, maybe your soil is very microbially active and buffering it very well. Guanos have a lot microbes in them already.

Well to each his own, but I have seen some posts of people using the beginners guide up top and having trouble w/ their ph... I don't think its a fix all.

 

[BurnOne]

I think they just assume they're having pH problems from all the bad info that synthetic growers give them.
And by the way, does that science book of yours tell you how to grow Cannabis? If not, try IC Mag. It's where the experts write.
Burn1

 

[Mr Celsius]

I think they just assume they're having pH problems from all the bad info that synthetic growers give them.
And by the way, does that science book of yours tell you how to grow Cannabis? If not, try IC Mag. It's where the experts write.
Burn1

Well, the person I noticed was using the beginners guide to a T and had problems.

About my science book, I love the ICMag community and all the information it has to offer, however, it will never even come close to the plethora of information that is provided by my many plant and soil science books. To imply that any person on this site knows more then these books would be foolish and arrogant.

 

[BurnOne]

But we're dealing only with one specific plant here. Call it specialized gardening. We're taking information from books like you've been reading and applying that information to Cannabis alone. With that info, we can add what is needed more and delete what is needed less and tailor to our single plant type.
Burn1

 

[Mr Celsius]

But we're dealing only with one specific plant here. Call it specialized gardening. We're taking information from books like you've been reading and applying that information to Cannabis alone. With that info, we can add what is needed more and delete what is needed less and tailor to our single plant type.
Burn1

I agree with you, the information does need adaptation. But the relationship between soil chemical elements and plants covers a very broad spectrum in the plant world. Cannabis is closely related to hops and barley, and many agricultural practices, dealing with those species, can be directly applied to cannabis.

I know a lot of humates works well in your soil, you've had no problems with ph in the past. That doesn't necessarily mean that it will be true for everyone else. All I'm trying to say here is, people need to practice caution with ph and that they can't simply put any ph solution into their soil despite having a lot of humates.

We should honestly have this discussion via PM's. I believe we are digressing from the subject at hand.

 

[B00st3d]

Very well said MR C. I learned alot when I first started from my beatnick brother who was a horticultural expert via studying science, growing hops for his home brewed beer, and a stint in the peace corps where he taught farmers in central america how to get better crops. So I never read alot of Ed Rosenthal or Jorge or any of those guys really. I just learned the basics about how to grow plants from him, he's like an open book. But learnin about MJ specific growing techniques bridges the gap for me. So its great hearing from both you and burnone, I dont mind you guys hijackin the thread one bit . Thanks for your contributions in my thread. I think Im gonna go ahead and use EWC with my FF/Perlite mix, maybe even some vermiculite which is the one thing FFOF is lacking.

 

[BurnOne]

You don't need any vermiculite.
Burn1

 

[B00st3d]

Your probably right BurnOne. I think the verm would only compound the drainage/aeration issues that FFOF has now that I think of it. I can see how it worked so well for me when I was using a home made mix tho. It takes long enough for the middle of the buckets to dry out as it is, the verm would only make it worse I reckon.

 

[ripOG]

I use a mix of FFOF and LW and it works very well. According to my local grow shop there are a lot of people who swear by this with very good results. The right mix seems to be about 70/30.