Do you boil your buds and reduce the liquid down to make an extract?
Fermented plant extracts
- Thread starter sophisto
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Perhaps helpfull 
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[YOUTUBEIF]anU-2rIslrI[/YOUTUBEIF]
Keep on growing
No but they must be decarboxylated first to convert the THC acid into a psychoactive form.. A process that often involves using heat and/or oil, but at the very least requires proper curing procedures...I am just surmising that doing the same with other herbs might convert otherwise useless chemicals into useful ones... It depends on what chemicals you are trying to isolate and what their properties are...
shmalphy
You've done a good job of confusing the basic issue - you've brought in the term 'nutrients' which is meaningless in this discussion without identifying what you personally mean by that term. Are you talking about 'minerals' (elements) like Mg, Si, P, K, N? Or are you talking about specific vitamins (another meaningless term in this discussion), enzymes, amino acids, etc. the plant produces?
None of that is germane to the specific Secondary Metabolites discussed by soaking specific plants in water to remove these compounds. They are not systemic, i.e. these are only produced on the surface of the leaves, flowers and branches. There are a whole other slew of 'compounds' produced in the roots to be released (exuded) on an as need basis dictated by the plant.
The compounds we're discussing take a plant about 20 minutes to create - Carbon, Hydroben & Oxygen. They can be altered or combined when needed. For example, a-pinene & b-pinene are 2 compounds most flowering plants produce including trees. In some trees, when needed, the pinenes are combined and 'edited' and turpentine is formed which is a powerful insecticide.
The Mint families, in particular, also produce the pinene compounds and when need these are combined and Linalool is formed. Or Camphor. Or whatever compound the plant needs at that time to attract, repel, whatever specific insects as well as fighting off pathogens and few dozen other functions.
Commercially, synthetic Linalool is produced by, guess what? - combining specific levels of synthetic a-pinene and b-pinene. I wonder where Monsanto got that idea from?
Once agin in spite of trying to run this wagon around the barn - we're talking about very simple hydrocarbon chains. We're not talking about complex vitamin compounds, we're not talking about anything related to 'nutrition' or one's culinary preferences. I'm not sure what you're talking about as it relates to removing bio-pesticides and bio-fungicides from plant flowers.
CC
You've done a good job of confusing the basic issue - you've brought in the term 'nutrients' which is meaningless in this discussion without identifying what you personally mean by that term. Are you talking about 'minerals' (elements) like Mg, Si, P, K, N? Or are you talking about specific vitamins (another meaningless term in this discussion), enzymes, amino acids, etc. the plant produces?
None of that is germane to the specific Secondary Metabolites discussed by soaking specific plants in water to remove these compounds. They are not systemic, i.e. these are only produced on the surface of the leaves, flowers and branches. There are a whole other slew of 'compounds' produced in the roots to be released (exuded) on an as need basis dictated by the plant.
The compounds we're discussing take a plant about 20 minutes to create - Carbon, Hydroben & Oxygen. They can be altered or combined when needed. For example, a-pinene & b-pinene are 2 compounds most flowering plants produce including trees. In some trees, when needed, the pinenes are combined and 'edited' and turpentine is formed which is a powerful insecticide.
The Mint families, in particular, also produce the pinene compounds and when need these are combined and Linalool is formed. Or Camphor. Or whatever compound the plant needs at that time to attract, repel, whatever specific insects as well as fighting off pathogens and few dozen other functions.
Commercially, synthetic Linalool is produced by, guess what? - combining specific levels of synthetic a-pinene and b-pinene. I wonder where Monsanto got that idea from?
Once agin in spite of trying to run this wagon around the barn - we're talking about very simple hydrocarbon chains. We're not talking about complex vitamin compounds, we're not talking about anything related to 'nutrition' or one's culinary preferences. I'm not sure what you're talking about as it relates to removing bio-pesticides and bio-fungicides from plant flowers.
CC
S
SeaMaiden
No. But I would cook my carrots in fats/oils to extract the vitamin A, and I would cook my tomatoes to access the lycopene.
I dry my buds before decarboxylating/denaturing them to access the THC, too.
I'm not so sure this is the best analogy (would you cook your foods or consume them raw to access nutrients?) for the subject matter at hand. Almost spoke on it yesterday, decided I may as well. At this point, though, I'm not sure what the best analogy to use would be here.
I totally get the points you're trying to make, I'm just not certain this is the best analogy is all.
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Just read your last post, you're a chemist? Shmalphy, you're a nutritionist (mother's an RD PhD)?
I don't know enough about these chains to fully grasp what you're getting at, or to move beyond what you've shared very well. I understand what you're saying as far as plants having these CHO chains and accessibility of resultant compounds in an un-adulterated (un-denatured) form, though. Which is all kinds of mixed up once you add 'fermenters' to the mix, yes? No?
Now I feel a little confused and need another toke off this Blockhead.
HOWEVER! (there's always a but) I was checking on the three FPEs I have going right now; Woolly mullein + oxalis spp. + malted barley extract; Echinacea spp. + yarrow flowers; and oxalis spp. alone.
The first FPE had a thick mat of fungal hyphae growing when I checked it yesterday and didn't seem to smell.* The other two smelled good, perfume-y.
*I was bitten by a rattlesnake 11 years ago and one of the results was a diminished sense of smell.
what im getting is the powerful insecticide/deterrent properties (simple hydrocarbon chains)are better obtained using a quick water extraction?
were bio-nutrient & or other complex goods can get as creative as one wants(boiling for horsetail,longer fermenting for plant material,added sugars/microbes,etc)
were bio-nutrient & or other complex goods can get as creative as one wants(boiling for horsetail,longer fermenting for plant material,added sugars/microbes,etc)
SeaMaiden
RE: Malted Barley Extract
Stick on that testing path and think about also incorporating diastatic malt used by artisan bakers.
I'm working on a similar project using a specific wild yeast culture and using different malted barleys. I have to figure out how to release or remove the alcohol but if you were to really study the work by Masanobu Fukuoka and Dr. T.L. Senn then you'll see why you want to continue your testing.
CC
RE: Malted Barley Extract
Stick on that testing path and think about also incorporating diastatic malt used by artisan bakers.
I'm working on a similar project using a specific wild yeast culture and using different malted barleys. I have to figure out how to release or remove the alcohol but if you were to really study the work by Masanobu Fukuoka and Dr. T.L. Senn then you'll see why you want to continue your testing.
CC
Great point DM, I would add to that the idea that there are possibly other compounds that cannot be extracted from a short soak or by boiling, much like THC. This is why I am playing with Gil Cardanang's Garlic Ginger recipe in which the active ingredient is extracted like a tincture, after a fermentation process.
S
SeaMaiden
Just a very quick search makes me say, "OooOOOooo! yeah." It's not as tasty as molasses, but my best results, based on remarks from others, have been when I incorporate the MBE, sometimes rather generously.
Thank you AGAIN.
Aotf
Member
Been reading this thread forever, finally want to ask a question.
I am wondering if anybody has ever used lichens, in some form?
Also how about mineral water, I have access to a local mineral spring, it is full of subliminated CO2 and all kinds of micronutrients, sulfates[magnesium]. Another spring is very sulfur laden, the water is orange, but I believe that anaerobic organisms can use sulfur in place of O?
I really want to experiment with it, in fermentation, thoughts?
[Ironically, I am a direct bastard descendent of the guy who started Perrier, wiki it]
I am wondering if anybody has ever used lichens, in some form?
Also how about mineral water, I have access to a local mineral spring, it is full of subliminated CO2 and all kinds of micronutrients, sulfates[magnesium]. Another spring is very sulfur laden, the water is orange, but I believe that anaerobic organisms can use sulfur in place of O?
I really want to experiment with it, in fermentation, thoughts?
[Ironically, I am a direct bastard descendent of the guy who started Perrier, wiki it]
SeaMaiden
I just finished What A Plant Knows: A Field Guide to the Senses by Dr. Daniel Chamovitz which was published in May. NPR did a story on this book a few days ago which lead me to grab a copy and I read it from cover to cover yesterday.
Stunning in it's breadth and science. The most important book on botany that I've read in several years.
CC
I just finished What A Plant Knows: A Field Guide to the Senses by Dr. Daniel Chamovitz which was published in May. NPR did a story on this book a few days ago which lead me to grab a copy and I read it from cover to cover yesterday.
Stunning in it's breadth and science. The most important book on botany that I've read in several years.
CC
I've studied lichens and the problems that air pollution is having on the ancient forests in the Pacific Northwest. Like you I'm fascinated about the possibilities that might come from using these organisms.
Let me know if you find anything at all. I've not been very successful by any definition.
Good topic!
CC
Oregonism
Active member
Someone posted a story in the Advanced Botany forum, about plants clicking their roots to communicate, also talked about proximity and phenotype determination as possibilities from that ability.
Very interesting stuff, I will try to find that particular thread and link it.
I just read the little gravity thing. Interesting. I wonder what this does to the biodynamic theories of
Ooops...watch out for science
G
greenmatter
i've been brewing a comfrey FPE that should be ready soon. this is my first run with the stuff so i have zero first hand experience with it.
the question is more about my neighbors ........ they are all pretty cool but one of them hates it when i use fish emulsion because of the smell (the guy actually knocked on my door years ago and said he was going to call the cops about it LOL, until i told him to wait until the next day and see how it smelled) he has learned to live with the fish emulsion over the years and i try not to use it when he has friends over to grill, but i think he is going to shit himself when he gets a nose full of this stuff.
how long does the stink take to chill down to something non gardeners can accept after you apply the stuff?
the question is more about my neighbors ........ they are all pretty cool but one of them hates it when i use fish emulsion because of the smell (the guy actually knocked on my door years ago and said he was going to call the cops about it LOL, until i told him to wait until the next day and see how it smelled) he has learned to live with the fish emulsion over the years and i try not to use it when he has friends over to grill, but i think he is going to shit himself when he gets a nose full of this stuff.
how long does the stink take to chill down to something non gardeners can accept after you apply the stuff?
maybe if you spray it on everyone's house on your block then he won't be able to pinpoint the source....
i have used nettle which smells almost as bad, in my indoor garden, and the smell dissipates after 12-24 hours. that is in much smaller quantities than you will be using outdoors, of course, so i can't say for certain it would behave the same in your situation.
i do try to dilute mine until the smell is more like horse barn rather than the fully concentrated smell: like you have face planted into fresh pig shit. it's a little less offensive at that point.
i have used nettle which smells almost as bad, in my indoor garden, and the smell dissipates after 12-24 hours. that is in much smaller quantities than you will be using outdoors, of course, so i can't say for certain it would behave the same in your situation.
i do try to dilute mine until the smell is more like horse barn rather than the fully concentrated smell: like you have face planted into fresh pig shit. it's a little less offensive at that point.
That reminds me of a book called "The Secret Life of Plants" by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird from 1973 that basically talks about how plants have feelings. There is also a movie that includes a hilarious soundtrack by stevie wonder... get VERY stoned before watching this... the whole thing is just way out there.
Oregonism
Active member
So I am wondering if anybody has tried to extract for polyphenols? Any homebrew lab methods? I have some examples but they are full on working lab examples and I don't have that kind of equipment at easy grasp!
MicrobeMan, could there be specific micro-organisms to possibly seek out to achieve this anaerobically in fermentation?
I whipped this up a few weeks ago from Dr. Duke and is for Lemon Balm [Melissa officinalis] grows wild all over the Western US.
MicrobeMan, could there be specific micro-organisms to possibly seek out to achieve this anaerobically in fermentation?
I whipped this up a few weeks ago from Dr. Duke and is for Lemon Balm [Melissa officinalis] grows wild all over the Western US.
MM
I was a bit surprised that NPR used that minuscule part of the book but I suppose it has a broad(er) appeal for the general public.
The part where he explains his work in the area of pesticides and fungicides that the plant produces on the leaves are triggered by things like an insect landing on a leaf or flower will put the plant into overdrive moving Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen into place to begin production which can continue for several days if necessary without stop.
Then there's his research on the exchange of ions between plant roots and even then plants are fairly selective on who they 'hang with' - hence the companion planting paradigm which probably needs more legitimate research.
Definitely worth the $14.00
CC
