O
otis33
Yes, a hole saw makes a prefect hole that a1.5"sink tail piece will fit snugly into
Farmer's Funky Flower Trees - PPK
- Thread starter FlowerFarmer
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Yes, a hole saw makes a prefect hole that a1.5"sink tail piece will fit snugly into
supernuck
Active member
Nice! The results I had turned up on google did not have any Canadian distributors but that menu does! Now to get my story straight... "Yeah, I'm putting a small baseball diamond in my backyard.... No You can't come over."
Thanks D9!
D9,
You probably know like the back of your hand.
Curious how much Turface I'll be needing after screening the fines to fill these 7 7Gal Feed Tubs?
I believe it comes in 50lb bags? I remember you saying that you use about 5 Gallons of Turface in each container, but how many gallons are in a 50lb sack after well screened?
Your 1st hand experience much appreciated..
You probably know like the back of your hand.
Curious how much Turface I'll be needing after screening the fines to fill these 7 7Gal Feed Tubs?
I believe it comes in 50lb bags? I remember you saying that you use about 5 Gallons of Turface in each container, but how many gallons are in a 50lb sack after well screened?
Your 1st hand experience much appreciated..
Interesting Snook.
I'll I will be able to get is the All Sport. Dude at John Deere said it was their "private label" of the MVP made exclusively for John Deere.
Rice Hulls mandatory if using the NAPA 8822? That is a floor dry available at the parts store correct? Does it need well washed / screened as well? I think I remember others discussing NAPA and stating that it could turn into straight concrete substance without adequate washing or whatever.
I'm up in the air as to what I want to do. Not even sure where to get Rice Hulls. Feed/Grain Store?
mcfly420,
My Cal Nit 15-0-0 (from Jacks) is blue. Thats how it came in the bag. Looks like a bunch of tiny blue BBs.... kinda like those Dip n' Dots ice cream. Surprisingly dissolves very easily.
I'll I will be able to get is the All Sport. Dude at John Deere said it was their "private label" of the MVP made exclusively for John Deere.
Rice Hulls mandatory if using the NAPA 8822? That is a floor dry available at the parts store correct? Does it need well washed / screened as well? I think I remember others discussing NAPA and stating that it could turn into straight concrete substance without adequate washing or whatever.
I'm up in the air as to what I want to do. Not even sure where to get Rice Hulls. Feed/Grain Store?
mcfly420,
My Cal Nit 15-0-0 (from Jacks) is blue. Thats how it came in the bag. Looks like a bunch of tiny blue BBs.... kinda like those Dip n' Dots ice cream. Surprisingly dissolves very easily.
i would buy six bags but you will have a lot left over. the containers hold 5.9 gals at 5" depth. they are only six high.
the bulk density of turface mvp, allsport, and primera one are exactly the same so the particle size distribution should be identical.
it is 35lbs per cubic ft so 50lbs is 1.42 cu ft. a cubic ft is 7.49 gals so 50 lbs is 10.63 gals.
this sounds about right but screening loses about 30% of you volume. i end up with a about a gal of screened left over.
i'm going to build a screen slide so i can pour a bag out on top and by the time it reaches bottom it is mostly screened.
the screening with the 1/8" kitchen screen goes much faster if you rough screen with window screen first.
this final screening reduces total bulk density to about 27-28 lbs i think. it's pretty easy to move a container of it wet.
once screened you only clean it from then on. a simple trough on a slight angle say 4 degrees with a flowing hose in the top end.
all the root material floats off the top while the turface sinks.
Awesome. Thanks man!
O mine is also from jacks but is practically white. and that screen slide was my idea 
but now im using a mix of coarse and very fine particles. also pouring dry turface in front of a fan separates the roots easily
and dont forget pros choice and ummm....diamond pro. same stuff
but now im using a mix of coarse and very fine particles. also pouring dry turface in front of a fan separates the roots easilyand dont forget pros choice and ummm....diamond pro. same stuff
One can use the 8822 (yes, available from most NAPA stores) without the rice hulls, I'm useing them because I have them, once gone will use straight floordry. A little heavier but redily available and I'm geting similar yields. Is MVP better? IDONO.
One can use the 8822 (yes, available from most NAPA stores) without the rice hulls, I'm useing them because I have them, once gone will use straight floordry. A little heavier but redily available and I'm geting similar yields. Is MVP better? IDONO.
the only reason i went to rice hulls was to use it as a cutter to drive the up the porosity of un-screened turface. it can be considered a direct replacement for perlite but i feel it is superior as it adds a little organic element. maybe just a little bit of something that breaks down organically triggers or spurs microbe growth. you could just as easily throw a cup of worm poo on top. maybe just a few ounces. tiny bit of composted chicken shit, who knows.
and if the all sport has smaller particles be careful to screen them out.
i think it's time to re-visit this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porosity#Porosity_and_hydraulic_conductivity
this is a fine write up on this subject.
and:
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/cacti/msg1219545027416.html
quote from the above:
"Another surprise, the turface retained more water than the peat mix! Peat and soil had the next highest water capacity. Gravel, perlite and lava rock had the least capacity for water retention, not surprising."
and:
"Saturation Index: soil is the worst...this means that when saturated with water, there is hardly any available air in the substrate. The 50-50 mix is 2nd worst. Turface also is pretty high, but considering it is so porous, there is still good aeration. Perlite, gravel and lava rock not surprisingly have the best ability to remain aerated."
this should be taken to apply to unwashed, unscreened turface. once treated, the saturation index is greatly improved and is excellent.
perlite is the most misunderstood substrate. everyone thinks it is porous. it is not. while millions of microscopic air bubbles are formed during the process they are not accessible to the roots as they are sealed. little glass air filled bubbles. all usable porosity is created during the breaking and grinding to size process. it is on the exterior only. perlite floats. i think perlite could be used very succesfully in a ppk used alone with a continuous drip instead of a pulse. zeolite is perlite with usable internal porosity. a different manufacturing process accomplishes this.
this is why rice hulls are superior to perlite as a cutter. they are internally porous and maintain moisture longer.
so, i think it is the mechanical properties that are most important in a ppk, not the substance itself so much, as long as it is not toxic or really active chemically.
"Perlite, gravel and lava rock not surprisingly have the best ability to remain aerated."
this part should be talked about a little too.
this entire article should be taken in the context of hand watering conventional nursery containers so talking about a ppk this would not apply as the ppk is heavily aerated at all times no matter the substrate if you meet the porosity requirements by prepping your medium properly.
so, whatever you have available can be made to work in most circumstances as long as you do your homework and do a simple porosity check like the guy did above. air filled porosity is adjustable.
shapes of particles can be important too. rods and cones and spheres, oh my!
other subjects related: particle size distribution. this is the why of screening. if you have ten different size particles and the number of each and distribution of each is perfect and they pack perfectly with no air space (only possible theoretically), you would have no o2 in the medium.
but with a group of uniform size spheres there is tremendous air porosity. in fact, too much. for most plants. even with a massive amount of internal porosity a bunch of perfect spheres won't transmit much water upward by capillary action against gravity. this is why hydroton sucks. or doesn't suck when you want it too. and we all know how frustrating it can be when you don't get suction at the right time.
hydroton is technically almost identical to turface but is nowhere near as good. in this device.
for best results use a particle size between 1/8" and 3/8" with a non-compressible nature that is internally porous for water retention and yet has sufficient space for air between particles, about 35%.
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great info delta 
nah, you're early man. You get the early bird rate..
Still got to trim the current run before I can get this under way. That'll likely take me a week +
Cuts are in the oven.
nah, you're early man. You get the early bird rate..
Still got to trim the current run before I can get this under way. That'll likely take me a week +
Cuts are in the oven.
D
DaveTheNewbie
if i can hijack the mans thread a sec, i have a bag of zeolite i havent opened yet. Ive been scared off by the idea of it sucking the nutes out of my water. It is as heavy as hell and i seriously doubt it will float like perlite does.
whats your take on running 100% zeolite as a medium compared to the others you talk about? Or using it as a cutter?
i think i have paper on the use of those two separately and in varying ratios stored somewhere. i'll try to find it. it might take a while.
D
DaveTheNewbie
http://www.fspublishers.org/ijab/past-issues/IJABVOL_9_NO_6/17.pdf
nice write up about zeolites and perlite. it seems that the magic happens with a 50/50 mix.
Vermiculite and perlite are often used together in "hempy buckets." The former holds onto too much moisture while the later does the opposite. Most plants seem to do just fine in 100% perlite. Because there is no internal porosity, water freely moves without reacting to the nutrient solution and water evaporates faster. Roots grow in 100% RH and will die whenever they are dry. Perlite can be screened for what it's worth...
Turface retains water probably too well and I think the successes from it are largely attributed to it's nature of never allowing the roots to dry...and die.
Turface retains water probably too well and I think the successes from it are largely attributed to it's nature of never allowing the roots to dry...and die.
hey FF are you now doing the blumats and donuts anymore? i really enjoyed those grows. made me wanna try it out with my spare 600w and see what happens compared to my 600's in horizontal grows.
