Espoma Plant-Tone/Flower Tone- how much to use?

[FinestKind]

Hey all,

Well, it's that time of year again to gear up for the outdoor grow. I'm only doing a few this year, and I want to use Espoma products, top-dressed, in 10 gallon pots. The directions on the bags are pretty varied- does anyone know how much Plant-Tone and Flower-Tone I should use per month? I'm thinking 1/4 cup should do it, but I don't want to go too heavy- any thoughts? Thanks!

FK

 

[LivingKoan]

I've used it with good success, but I mixed into the soil. 25 parts soil to 1 part Plant-tone.

 

[treefrog]

I used 1/4 cup per gallon, but that soil is brewing/waiting for a future MMJ run. This is the first time with the Plant Tone (mixed in), so we'll have to wait and see.

However, I recently used it as a top-dressing, mixed with EWC 50/50, on some freshly rooted clones. I added it after putting the clones in soil and watering them. The first watering, after the top-dressing was applied, made the plants go BOOM.
They liked..

Top-dressed in containers outside may attract critters though.

 

[mostnonymouse]

I used 2 cups in approx. 10 gallons of soil but i'm thinking now that it may have been a bit light. I'd add some as a top dressing but I've already had issues with animals digging up plants (4 dug up, 3 survived). I must have miscalculated when I originally figured out my mix because I definitely thought I was mixing at 25:1 until today. The plants have been in soil for about 3 weeks. Can I dig them up, re-amend with guano and replant?

 

[FinestKind]

Hmm, it seems that most people prefer to pre-mix it in as a soil amendment.... I'd like a little more control over how much and when they get what nutrients.

Maybe I'll just use the 25:1 ratio... I was planning on mixing in some dolomite and Bone Meal anyway, so I've got to do the work one way or the other...

My calculations say that 25:1 is about 5 oz per gallon of soil (5.12 to be exact)... this is a little more than 1/2 a cup... does this seem heavy to anyone?

FK

 

[redneck shogun]

I would like to compare 1/2 cup to 1/4 cup. Hopefully y'all can share your results in this thread and we can follow along. I know there are better options than using this product because of it's commercial poultry manure ingredient, but I haven't decided yet if I am going to use what I have of it or not. Since I am poor I am probably going to use it anyway and try to ignore the possibility that I am putting harmful poisons in my body. Thanks guys.

 

[FinestKind]

I would like to compare 1/2 cup to 1/4 cup. Hopefully y'all can share your results in this thread and we can follow along. I know there are better options than using this product because of it's commercial poultry manure ingredient, but I haven't decided yet if I am going to use what I have of it or not. Since I am poor I am probably going to use it anyway and try to ignore the possibility that I am putting harmful poisons in my body. Thanks guys.

I'm a bit nervous to use 1/2 cup, as I have burned my plants using it before... hell, maybe I'll go with a 1/3 cup and sort of split the difference

Well, it definitely is not OMRI certified, and although I wasn't 100% sure why, I assume that's part of it. But it's a hell of a lot better than Miracle Gro or the like... at least it's feeding the soil and the microbes and such and not poisoning them all instead. It is cheap, too, which is the main reason I use it... better than nothing!

FK

 

[mostnonymouse]

I'm a bit nervous to use 1/2 cup, as I have burned my plants using it before... hell, maybe I'll go with a 1/3 cup and sort of split the difference

Well, it definitely is not OMRI certified, and although I wasn't 100% sure why, I assume that's part of it. But it's a hell of a lot better than Miracle Gro or the like... at least it's feeding the soil and the microbes and such and not poisoning them all instead. It is cheap, too, which is the main reason I use it... better than nothing!

FK

check out this thread from post #5 on.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=57794

 

[Ulysses]

I've used Espoma products for years- but for the last several grows, I've had to change my ways...

Espoma "tones" are coarse and take some time to break down in the soil. Letting the soil 'cook' for several months is a great idea as well as reusing your (organic) soil... Even the Biotone starter seems not to be 'bio-available' for 3-4 weeks at least...

You've got the right idea of moving away from miracle gro to organics! Mix the stuff right into the soil- top dressing, IMHO is largely a waste as the dressing usually forms a crust.

Espoma is fairly cheap and available. Scavangers may dig in the soil around your plant looking for bones to gnaw on attracted by the bonemeal scent (you've used too much indicator)...

Try this: 2 T/ gallon for light feeding plants like Mandala or DJShort gear and 4 T/ gallon for indica leaning hybrids like MazarIShariff or Kushes... One cup is 16 Tablespoons.

I'm a big fan of Rainbow Mix now. It's a finely ground powder with the occasional pieces of meal and the like... Price is competitive but you'll likely need to have it shipped...

Best of Luck

 

[mostnonymouse]

per gallon of soil or gallon of water Ulysses?

As I stated earlier, I mixed about 16 ounces of plant-tone into my swamp tubes which are approx 10 gallons. The plants are doing fantastic as far as I can tell (first grow) but I realize now that this is a very light dose in comparison to the 25:1 ratio that others are using. Also, my leaves aren't quite as dark green as many of the more successful, seasoned growers on this forum, so today I bought some pelletized peruvian seabird guano and began top dressing with 1-2 teaspoons per plant (bag recommends 2-3 TBSP but I wanted to start slow especially with the espoma already mixed in) Anyone think this could end up burning my 2 month old girls?

 

[FinestKind]

per gallon of soil or gallon of water Ulysses?

As I stated earlier, I mixed about 16 ounces of plant-tone into my swamp tubes which are approx 10 gallons. The plants are doing fantastic as far as I can tell (first grow) but I realize now that this is a very light dose in comparison to the 25:1 ratio that others are using. Also, my leaves aren't quite as dark green as many of the more successful, seasoned growers on this forum, so today I bought some pelletized peruvian seabird guano and began top dressing with 1-2 teaspoons per plant (bag recommends 2-3 TBSP but I wanted to start slow especially with the espoma already mixed in) Anyone think this could end up burning my 2 month old girls?

I'd be careful... the easiest thing to do as a new grower is kill your plants with love... unless they are showing N deficiency (lots of the bottom leaves are turning yellow), I'd be careful about throwing more at them, IMHO. If they look healthy, then you are winning the battle! It's always easier to correct deficiencies than it is to correct over-feeding.

 

[FinestKind]

I've used Espoma products for years- but for the last several grows, I've had to change my ways...

Espoma "tones" are coarse and take some time to break down in the soil. Letting the soil 'cook' for several months is a great idea as well as reusing your (organic) soil... Even the Biotone starter seems not to be 'bio-available' for 3-4 weeks at least...

You've got the right idea of moving away from miracle gro to organics! Mix the stuff right into the soil- top dressing, IMHO is largely a waste as the dressing usually forms a crust.

Espoma is fairly cheap and available. Scavangers may dig in the soil around your plant looking for bones to gnaw on attracted by the bonemeal scent (you've used too much indicator)...

Try this: 2 T/ gallon for light feeding plants like Mandala or DJShort gear and 4 T/ gallon for indica leaning hybrids like MazarIShariff or Kushes... One cup is 16 Tablespoons.

I'm a big fan of Rainbow Mix now. It's a finely ground powder with the occasional pieces of meal and the like... Price is competitive but you'll likely need to have it shipped...

Best of Luck

I actually have a hydro store that I go to for all my indoor needs, I'm pretty sure he carries the Rainbow Mix, or at least the Peace of Mind Fox Farm line, and he can order just about anything. I've recently gone nearly completely organic indoors (I use the Earth Juice line, but I use Pro-Mix, which isn't an organic soil, but I love it for its availability, price, and convenience)... I love the results I've gotten, I must say.

My girlfriend has used the Espoma products for her gardening business for years, but I am embarrassed to say I am a recent convert to the organic (or partly organic or however you want to call it) philosophy. As my understanding of it grows, I realize how much sense it makes- happy soil= happy plants. Simple.

So, you suggest 4T/ gallon? (I'm growing Early Misty which are just about as pure Indica as you can get)... This is only 1/4 cup per gallon, or about 1:50, unless my calculations are screwy. With this mix, will I have to top feed as well throughout the cycle? Keep in mind I am also planning on mixing in some bone meal for the additional P content.

Thanks again everyone, as usual, for your interest and input

FK

 

[mostnonymouse]

I'd be careful... the easiest thing to do as a new grower is kill your plants with love... unless they are showing N deficiency (lots of the bottom leaves are turning yellow), I'd be careful about throwing more at them, IMHO. If they look healthy, then you are winning the battle! It's always easier to correct deficiencies than it is to correct over-feeding.

Yea I just top dressed anyway, 1/3rd the dose of the light side of the recommendation (1/6th on some). I tossed the pellets in a water bottle with some water and shook them up before each application so they have already had some hit their roots and they looked awesome today. getting some light scattered showers tomorrow and i'm giving them some tea either tomorrow or thursday so by the end of the week i should be able to evaluate how it affected them.

As I said before I don't know if the plants haven't matured enough yet or if they're a little low on N or what, but they don't seem as dark green as most plants I see on here...maybe it's the camera settings people use. I did see yellowing on the bottom leaves of one plant though so I doubt i'm overdoing it at this dose. we'll see. Worst case scenario I get a little N burn, they suffer for a couple weeks, bounce back and I learn a lesson; I couldn't have poisoned them completely. That's what the first grow is all about anyway right? learning through experience. So far i've encountered bugs and treated with neem oil, dealt with critters digging for bone meal on 3 separate occasions, (next time i use espoma i'll be mixing WAY earlier) and now I'm learning to double check my calculations the first time instead of 2 months into the grow.


edit: just saw your post about critter attention being an indicator that I may have gone overboard. I wonder if this is the case, or it's just that I didn't amend the soil at an earlier date...

 

[FinestKind]

Yea I just top dressed anyway, 1/3rd the dose of the light side of the recommendation (1/6th on some). I tossed the pellets in a water bottle with some water and shook them up before each application so they have already had some hit their roots and they looked awesome today. getting some light scattered showers tomorrow and i'm giving them some tea either tomorrow or thursday so by the end of the week i should be able to evaluate how it affected them.

As I said before I don't know if the plants haven't matured enough yet or if they're a little low on N or what, but they don't seem as dark green as most plants I see on here...maybe it's the camera settings people use. I did see yellowing on the bottom leaves of one plant though so I doubt i'm overdoing it at this dose. we'll see. Worst case scenario I get a little N burn, they suffer for a couple weeks, bounce back and I learn a lesson; I couldn't have poisoned them completely. That's what the first grow is all about anyway right? learning through experience. So far i've encountered bugs and treated with neem oil, dealt with critters digging for bone meal on 3 separate occasions, (next time i use espoma i'll be mixing WAY earlier) and now I'm learning to double check my calculations the first time instead of 2 months into the grow.


edit: just saw your post about critter attention being an indicator that I may have gone overboard. I wonder if this is the case, or it's just that I didn't amend the soil at an earlier date...

Sounds like you're on the right track then... as long as you've got the "slow and easy" with the nutes mantra down, you're doing fine! The one thing I have personally found with Espoma is that it is very difficult to "flush" (nay impossible) out of the system if you over do it... being mostly non-soluble ingredients, this only makes sense. This is from personal experience, which is why I've been considering only using it as a top dressing instead... I think I'll go with Ulysses 1/4 cup per gallon idea, and figure I can always top dress if needed- I don't seem to have a problem with critters digging anything up around here (a vigilant cat and dog may have something to do with this)... good luck to both of us!

FK

 

[bakelite]

I've used Espoma products for years- but for the last several grows, I've had to change my ways...

Espoma "tones" are coarse and take some time to break down in the soil. Letting the soil 'cook' for several months is a great idea as well as reusing your (organic) soil... Even the Biotone starter seems not to be 'bio-available' for 3-4 weeks at least...

You've got the right idea of moving away from miracle gro to organics! Mix the stuff right into the soil- top dressing, IMHO is largely a waste as the dressing usually forms a crust.

Espoma is fairly cheap and available. Scavangers may dig in the soil around your plant looking for bones to gnaw on attracted by the bonemeal scent (you've used too much indicator)...

Try this: 2 T/ gallon for light feeding plants like Mandala or DJShort gear and 4 T/ gallon for indica leaning hybrids like MazarIShariff or Kushes... One cup is 16 Tablespoons.

I'm a big fan of Rainbow Mix now. It's a finely ground powder with the occasional pieces of meal and the like... Price is competitive but you'll likely need to have it shipped...

Best of Luck

Ulysses, I have found that if I grind Plant Tone in a coffee grinder to a fine powder before I use it, it seems to help the nutes become available quicker. A full two week cook before using also helps.

Those amounts you recommended sound fine. I have had Plant tone burn my plants before.

I've been real curious about Rainbow mix. It seems similar in composition to some of the Espoma products (Plant Tone, BioTone, FlowerTone etc.).

-bakelite

 

[FinestKind]

Well, what I've done is this: per gallon of soil, I've mixed 4T Plant-Tone, 2T Espoma Bone Meal (4-12-0), and 2T Dolomite lime. I've put it all in the pots I'm planning on using (10 gallons), soaked it real good, and put them in a sunny location. I was planning on transplanting in a week, but you say 2 weeks?

I had the Plant-Tone on hand, next time I'll give the Rainbow Mix a go.

FK

 

[FinestKind]

Oops, stupid slow connection

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Walmart is now carrying Plant-tone and a couple other products. Although the ones I have seen are not carrying Flower-tone.

The latest info Espoma is giving on Plant-tone is that they are now adding 15 diff. variety of mycorrhizae. For $10, I think this may be the product I have been looking for.

I have amended 80coco/20perlite with plant-tone at the recommended 25:1 ratio.
The coco was hydrated using cal/mag+ and liquid karma.
I put the mix in 2 gal bags and let them set a few days out in the sun.
I have transplanted vegging plants to the bags and will let them veg for a couple weeks and then they will go into flower.
I am concerned about the N levels, although the directions states that a reapplication should be given every month...so I have to assume that they feel there is depletion during that time period. If it is the case that the ferts are starting to deplete after about 4 weeks, then it should work out well and hopefully I will not need to feed any further.
I am just worried about an elevated level of N available well into flower.
I would be glad to hear anyones thoughts. And if anyone has seen any detremental effects with a similar scenario, I'd love to hear it before I commit too far...

If I had a large grow it wouldn't worry me to make a change, but I only produce a bit more than I consume (sometimes a good bit more..but hey whats a guy supposed to do?..lol), and I hate when it is the other way around.

 

[staff11]

Sounds like you're on the right track then... as long as you've got the "slow and easy" with the nutes mantra down, you're doing fine! The one thing I have personally found with Espoma is that it is very difficult to "flush" (nay impossible) out of the system if you over do it... being mostly non-soluble ingredients, this only makes sense. This is from personal experience, which is why I've been considering only using it as a top dressing instead... I think I'll go with Ulysses 1/4 cup per gallon idea, and figure I can always top dress if needed- I don't seem to have a problem with critters digging anything up around here (a vigilant cat and dog may have something to do with this)... good luck to both of us!

FK

How do you flush ANY organic nutrients? I don't get it.

 

[growingcrazy]

Can we get some more discussion on the Espoma products going? Possibly get some updates from everyone that already posted here?

I have been using garden tone 3-4-4 for the last 2 rounds. Pre-mixed in about 2 months prior to use. I also change pots from veg to flower.

No problems at all through veg. Plants grew very well on just water, molasses and vinegar.
Repotted for flower to larger pots, filled with the same soil but had been cooking for 3 months at this point. 4 weeks in the started showing slight deficiency's. Top fed with 3 tablespoons and plants finished out well at 10 weeks.

It seems espoma got it pretty close with there reapply once a month instructions.

soil mix-

50 peat
30 perlite
20 soil

additional-

bone meal
blood meal
espoma garden tone
espoma lime (works great!)

Watering with molasses and cider vinegar.