Electrical Profile Monitoring System

[Verite]

Pretty silly bs all dressed up with no place left to go but speculationville.

For one the electricity companies already have the technology to tell when and how much juice you are using. Want proof? Call them up and ask them about being billed for off-peak usage rates. How else they gonna do that without knowing when and how much you use?

http://www.lpea.coop/programs_services/ETS/wattwatcher.htm

For two they already have systems in place to detect juice theft. If they didnt how would they catch anyone? All this system does it sounds like is refines that down to individual addresses which brings this back into an issue of privacy.

Its illegal for a service company to 'monitor' your usage for anything other than billing. If it were then electricity companies would sell your usage information to telemarketers letting them know when the best time to reach you at home, etc. Phone companies could do the same, and up the ante with monitoring where you called so marketers could send you area code specific marketing, etc.

As already indicated the electricity company is looking for theft, other than that they dont make any money doing the police departments work and they arent going to go against their legal dept which is going to tell them flat out no ratting out paying customers to police because if they are wrong and police bust the wrong people it opens up the electricity company for a lawsuit.

This is the same exact reason that ISP's dont monitor your internet use for applicable local laws. Services arent required to do the police depts work, theres no profit in it and thats always the bottom line.

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

Pretty silly bs all dressed up with no place left to go but speculationville.

For one the electricity companies already have the technology to tell when and how much juice you are using. Want proof? Call them up and ask them about being billed for off-peak usage rates. How else they gonna do that without knowing when and how much you use?

http://www.lpea.coop/programs_services/ETS/wattwatcher.htm

For two they already have systems in place to detect juice theft. If they didnt how would they catch anyone? All this system does it sounds like is refines that down to individual addresses which brings this back into an issue of privacy.

Its illegal for a service company to 'monitor' your usage for anything other than billing. If it were then electricity companies would sell your usage information to telemarketers letting them know when the best time to reach you at home, etc. Phone companies could do the same, and up the ante with monitoring where you called so marketers could send you area code specific marketing, etc.

As already indicated the electricity company is looking for theft, other than that they dont make any money doing the police departments work and they arent going to go against their legal dept which is going to tell them flat out no ratting out paying customers to police because if they are wrong and police bust the wrong people it opens up the electricity company for a lawsuit.

This is the same exact reason that ISP's dont monitor your internet use for applicable local laws. Services arent required to do the police depts work, theres no profit in it and thats always the bottom line.

i dont think so verite, the legal dept denying rating paying customers.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040326/news_7m26wrong.html

they didnt even grow pot and there bill was only 200-300 a month...
small bill if u ask me, ive paid double that plus some.

 

[Vermonster]

ha what fucking fools.........just go to show you that anyone could look suspicious....any chance he cleaned house? they'll never know..i have scene $700 electrical bill for 2 bedrooms apts in NYC w/ no grow/ illegal use..... now a days that means nota........hope these folks make a big stink, maybe next time they will think twice....a tip? BS!
Saelin- too young? Beasters are a modern day issue my experiences are only 5-8 years ago....but PM cause i wanna keep the narcotics/killing shit to a minimum as per recent requests by mods......

 

[hamstring]

DigitalHippys link is a must read

That's because the Dagys' high electricity bill was not the sole reason for the search, Rowland said. He noted a drug-sniffing dog showed interest in the home when it was taken there before Friday's search. A search warrant affidavit was reviewed by the District Attorney's Office and a judge signed the warrant.

In his sworn affidavit, Carlsbad Detective Mark Reyes states an unidentified, confidential source told a county Narcotics Task Force agent that someone might be growing pot in the house.

Investigators subpoenaed utility records, which showed the Dagys used 1,584 kilowatts of electricity in February, and 1,616 kilowatts in January, the affidavit states. That's three to four times the amount used in neighboring homes during the same period, according to the affidavit.

Also, surveillance of the home showed that the Dagys placed their trash cans on the curb outside their home the morning of the Thursday pickups.

Why is that a big deal? Some narcotics offenders wait until the last possible moment to put their trash on the curb because they know that investigators retrieve evidence from trash, the affidavit says.

YOU HAVE TO READ THAT LINK
Did you read this it's crazy. You have no right to privacy if you think you do your are looking through rose colored glasses. These cops obviously lied about everything written in this affidavit. The CI, the drug sniffing dog everything. They simply looked at power usage and busted, well walked in.

So now if this happened to one of us and you think your going to cry fowl to the courts. Good luck because the above-signed affidavit will be your demise. They illegally get in but cover their tracks legally.

I admit this was a large sting type operation so they went through all the trouble to cover their tracks with lies and maybe just maybe if the bust in your house you will have some legal precedence. You can wish in one hand and shit in the other and wait to see what happens. This sickens me. I know it happens just like car accidents but when you personaly see it f**king disgusting.

One other thing the really gets me who doesn’t wait to the last second to take out the trash geeze what a crock of lies.

 

[Verite]

i dont think so verite, the legal dept denying rating paying customers.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040326/news_7m26wrong.html

they didnt even grow pot and there bill was only 200-300 a month...
small bill if u ask me, ive paid double that plus some.

??? How is an investigation into a crime ring where a warrant issued on bad informant info that mistakenly points to a wrong house anywhere close to the electric company ratting out its paying customers?

.. In his sworn affidavit, Carlsbad Detective Mark Reyes states an unidentified, confidential source told a county Narcotics Task Force agent that someone might be growing pot in the house... That's because the Dagys' high electricity bill was not the sole reason for the search, Rowland said. He noted a drug-sniffing dog showed interest in the home when it was taken there before Friday's search. A search warrant affidavit was reviewed by the District Attorney's Office and a judge signed the warrant..

A bad informant ratted out the house and then the cops got the warrant for info from the electric company [ since it wasnt voluntarily given, you can verify that with their legal dept too ] the cops thought they had a case with zero physical evidence.. and acted on crappy circumstantial evidence to boot. How you logic that into the electric company ratting out its customers is beyond me.

 

[Verite]

.. I have called them, they don't bill for peak usage. You're allotted X amount of KW's, when you pass that the rate goes up..

You must be one of the few that doesnt have that option since its available in almost every major city in the US.

.. In some places. The best they're able to do is notice that they are feeding X amount of electricity to an area and that Y amount is getting billed for..

Do they need anything else? Its not like once they have determined an area of loss that they dont have tools like an ampmeter and the such to determine which lines are pulling more current than their being billed. Like I said, they dont seem to have any trouble finding them now.

.. *coughs* Patriot act ..

Wow more bs and speculationville? How original. When you dont even have the proof they are using the PA for pot growers, let alone asking the electric companies for customer information, you can save the coughs for when you really have a sore throat.

.. Uhm, you say the electric company is looking for theft, but busting potential growers would also prevent theft; do you see how you kind of contradict yourself?..

Sorry I dont follow your logic. Every grower I know [ even the ones on these forums ] pays for electricity. How would busting growers that pay for electricity prevent theft? That doesnt make any sense.

.. Well, thats not true as well. ISP's monitor traffic because it has negative effects on them. Example: Comcast throttles bittorrent use because it uses a lot of bandwidth on their servers. The police don't need the ISP to monitor any servers. If I had the conviction and will, I could easily monitor all incoming traffic going to any website, its really not difficult. It doesn't matter if the server doesn't log IP's, because the servers inbound and outbound traffic can be monitored externally. Go ask a hacker.

Sorry, but it is true. Show me one ISP [ besides China ] that monitors their connections FOR LOCAL APPLICABLE LAWS. There isnt one of them.

You'll have to do better than that. Care to show me one applicable local law that shows that use of bit torrent or any other p2p software is illegal? There isnt any.

If you were current with your news you would know that Comcast doesnt throttle anything anymore because they are being sued for attempting it in the first place. Anyone I know that uses Comcast hasnt noticed a thing and uses torrents a lot.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/pos...ass-action-lawsuit-over-traffic-blocking.html

Police monitoring inbound connections to a website? Stop.. youre making me laugh.

Almost as funny as you monitoring them. Tell me, what exactly you are going to find out from some random IP address? Someones ISP? Ooooooo.. scarey.

 

[Mr Celsius]

You must be one of the few that doesnt have that option since its available in almost every major city in the US.

K, how is that an option? Where do I sign up?

Do they need anything else? Its not like once they have determined an area of loss that they dont have tools like an ampmeter and the such to determine which lines are pulling more current than their being billed. Like I said, they dont seem to have any trouble finding them now.

Possibly, I have not proof either way.

Wow more bs and speculationville? How original. When you dont even have the proof they are using the PA for pot growers, let alone asking the electric companies for customer information, you can save the coughs for when you really have a sore throat.

Ya ok Verite. Cause drug dealing isn't a terrorist act... they can use that act for any reason they wish. Am I saying that it would make sense to use it on some lowly pot growers? No. My point is, they can do w/e they want.

Sorry I dont follow your logic. Every grower I know [ even the ones on these forums ] pays for electricity. How would busting growers that pay for electricity prevent theft? That doesnt make any sense.

.... You can pay your bill and still steal power. They power company doesn't know you're growing weed, they could think you have computers, freezers or many other things, but it doesn't mean that you couldn't still be stealing power.

You said that they want to stop people from stealing power, but that they don't want to give out information to the police. There was a conflict in your logic.

Sorry, but it is true. Show me one ISP [ besides China ] that monitors their connections FOR LOCAL APPLICABLE LAWS. There isnt one of them.

You'll have to do better than that. Care to show me one applicable local law that shows that use of bit torrent or any other p2p software is illegal? There isnt any.

If you were current with your news you would know that Comcast doesnt throttle anything anymore because they are being sued for attempting it in the first place. Anyone I know that uses Comcast hasnt noticed a thing and uses torrents a lot.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/pos...ass-action-lawsuit-over-traffic-blocking.html

Police monitoring inbound connections to a website? Stop.. youre making me laugh.

Almost as funny as you monitoring them. Tell me, what exactly you are going to find out from some random IP address? Someones ISP? Ooooooo.. scarey.

It doesn't matter if there are local laws. ISP's can do whatever they want, basically. Comcast still throttles my bittorrent connections, so you're wrong. They might be getting sued but they sure haven't stopped.

Just because an ISP isn't actively restricting and using information that is obtained by monitoring there customers, doesn't mean that they don't still do it. Don't you realize the marketing value of that? Look at google, every webpage that you search for or click on through their service is logged and monitored. Its a huge wealth of marketing information. To say that the government would not be willing to use that resource is foolish. Its not as simple as some police... of course your sergeant at your local station isn't going to monitor this site.

When you search for your IP connection on the net, you see that you are in a general area. But when the ISP looks at your IP, it shows your address. Its not very hard for hackers in the government to monitor incoming and outcoming traffic on a website, its actually incredibly easy.

So what if ICMag doesn't log IP's. Do you understand that the internet is just a mass of computers that are connected to each other? Unless you're using a proxy and routing your signal through a large group of people, you're basically connecting to this site in a linear fashion, and its easy to monitor just one of the ways to get here.

 

[irconfused]

Would anyone happen to know if San Diego's indoor growing enforcement is especially harsh? I would imagine with the border, and lots of outdoor space they already have their hands full so it worries me that this is going on.

The scariest thing is that without any remotely substantial evidence they were able to do a raid. So they can get a warrant just bc of high electricity bills, and they can get a subpoena for their bills from an "anonymous source" which means absolutely nothing. It could be as simple as a meter reader who gets $20 for every address of a house that has a meter spinning too fast.

All the more reasons for you guys in medical states to get legal, that way at least on the state level you won't have to worry as much about this kind of bs.

 

[twojoints]

People, the War On Drugs is only getting worse- especially since the police now have new rules (basically none!).

If they suspect you, wether its power consumption or an anonymous tip, they are going to search your house and there isnt a damn thing you can do about it. fight it in court? sure, but thats after they already came into your home. thats the bottom line- they want in to monitor your life and thats what they will get. this is america 2008, if you want to stay ahead of the game now you need to start HIDING your grow and HIDE it well. make it so a casual search wont turn anything up.

 

[EddieShoestring]

thanks Rosy for the heads up on that-
i thought the background was interesting...

[0005] Monitoring of electrical services at a location in the service which would detect bypassing of conventional metering is uncommon. Applicant is unaware of systems currently in use which are capable of economically identifying atypical usage patterns at the primary level and thereafter pinpointing specific households which may be of interest to the utility providers and to law enforcement.

ICM commercial crew breath collective sigh of relief

in the UK the authorities have gone public about police and power providers working together to reduce illegal extraction of power /grow Ops-but, unfortunatly, they never say how they are going about it-
e

edit-i'm loving Vermonsters massive tomato Op anti-detection strategy

 

[Guest]

It will cost power companies millions of dollars to have these installed. I don't think they will install them in the states that really don't have a "cultivation problem". I knew this was coming one day. I look at all the bust that are happining accross the country, and most of the growers have stolen electricity. Lets just say they were installed all across the states. I'm sure there would be some type of invention that can keep you undected some time down the line. Its one big game that will never stop. Reminds me of cat and mouse<<<

TrIGG

 

[Verite]

K, how is that an option? Where do I sign up?

Seems thats up to you to find out

Possibly, I have not proof either way.

The proof is in how well they catch juice stealers now

Ya ok Verite. Cause drug dealing isn't a terrorist act... they can use that act for any reason they wish. Am I saying that it would make sense to use it on some lowly pot growers? No. My point is, they can do w/e they want.

Um, youre right it isnt a terrorist act. Drug dealing never has been. Then again growing marijuana isnt drug dealing either. And no, congress wouldnt be investigating them if they could do whatever they wanted, right?

.... You can pay your bill and still steal power. They power company doesn't know you're growing weed, they could think you have computers, freezers or many other things, but it doesn't mean that you couldn't still be stealing power.

If you can point to one news story of someone that stole electricity that wasnt using it for growing pot you might have a point.

You said that they want to stop people from stealing power, but that they don't want to give out information to the police. There was a conflict in your logic.

The only conflict was youre understanding. Show me where electric companies are giving out information of customers without warrants. They arent, and that proves they dont want to voluntarily give out information to the police. Just like the police they need some proof before they issue a warrant.

It doesn't matter if there are local laws. ISP's can do whatever they want, basically. Comcast still throttles my bittorrent connections, so you're wrong. They might be getting sued but they sure haven't stopped.

If you werent wrong then why would comcast be being sued? Because they arent allowed to do whatever they want. You seem to think that anyone can do anything they want as if the world is void of lawyers and rules, but you seem to be proved wrong about that a lot.

Just because an ISP isn't actively restricting and using information that is obtained by monitoring there customers, doesn't mean that they don't still do it. Don't you realize the marketing value of that? Look at google, every webpage that you search for or click on through their service is logged and monitored. Its a huge wealth of marketing information. To say that the government would not be willing to use that resource is foolish. Its not as simple as some police... of course your sergeant at your local station isn't going to monitor this site.

Unless you casually glanced over your comcast privacy statement, unlike I have I know exactly what my ISP shares and what they dont, how do I know it works? Because of the mail and the phone calls I get. If they sold personal info that allowed marketers to get ahold of me direct I would know. Theres no personal resource for the govt to use, and no I can bet your years salary that anyone at my police station is looking at this website.

When you search for your IP connection on the net, you see that you are in a general area. But when the ISP looks at your IP, it shows your address. Its not very hard for hackers in the government to monitor incoming and outcoming traffic on a website, its actually incredibly easy.

So what if ICMag doesn't log IP's. Do you understand that the internet is just a mass of computers that are connected to each other? Unless you're using a proxy and routing your signal through a large group of people, you're basically connecting to this site in a linear fashion, and its easy to monitor just one of the ways to get here.

And you still havent provided one shred of evidence that ISP's willingly give up your personal information to whoever asks. All you have is what I have said from the start..

.. bs from speculationville.

 

[Macster2]

I'm with Verite on this one, If it were a simple matter of monitoring electic usage growers would be falling like flies. It's not in the utilities best interest in providing anything to LEO as there is nothing positive can come out of it for them.And the downside of getting named in a massive lawsuit where popo kills someone busting into an innocent home owner house.
In Canada we also have the privacy act where utility providers MUST maintain the privacy of their customers short of a court order.

 

[Harry Gypsna]

get a genrator(diesel and run it on old cooking oil even new cooking oil should be cheaper than diesel)-Tru and works great) build a soundproof box and flip ur fucking finger at the patent holder
Job done