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Dud Identification Collective Knowledge.
- Thread starter high life 45
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It was first mentioned on page 73, and most info about it, is pre 8/15. This is just one of many posts about them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ditylenchus_dipsaci
http://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm?postnum=9436
This thread has become too large for anyone to read, especially with all of the arguing. I would like to see it split into a few new threads, with like minded people, working together. People with confirmed Nematodes, with pictures of plants, or people who think other than that (nutes, genetics, etc.), can post their cases.
With nematodes, they create damage, that other parasites (fungi, bacteria) can take advantage of.
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The point I'm making is that these bugs , like broad mites , or any other garden problem isn't as big a problem as the growers in this thread make it out to be...
You can order biocontrol agents for these nematodes right off the good old internet and have them shipped right to your door.
You can order biocontrol agents for these nematodes right off the good old internet and have them shipped right to your door.
Can you keep your cuts and stop using controls. Obviously a clean house and restart would be easiest to confirm elimination. But can you make a cut not a vector. That's what I'm curious about. I'm curious and driven by the puzzle more than scared. We know what it is now most likely. No more boogeyman syndrome. But what about infected cuts. Easy enough to scrap them but I'm curious about saving them.
The second link, in my previous post, mentions there are no certified nematode spray treatments, for alfalfa. I think they all state, for ornamentals only. Investigate all ingredients, before trying.
Just read label of MeloCon, for treating soil, between crops, which claims it is safe after 14 days. Do not know if certified in US.
Checked, it is epa certified for organic crops. Googled, MeloCon epa certified.
My next question, is why University of California agriculture annex did not know of this, a year ago.
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Thanks for the tip. All of this has been mentioned long ago, and nobody has as yet had great success with anything as far as reversing the damage
Yes, and you know who that "someone" is, but left out his name, as you had already been trolling him in the GG4 thread. It's just another way of taking a shot @ Joesy. I tend to believe his statement, as I believe he is honest. You were all over GG4, calling it "ordinary" and not "elite", yet you are growing the shit out of it. That's kind of strange.
That's just stupid. Because you haven't caught a disease, it must not exist? Is that from the Papaduck school of trolling?
Alfalfa crops have taken devastating hits from Ditylenchus dipsaci, as have other crops. 50% to 100% losses have been reported. If you did even 5 minutes of Googling you would know that, besides the fact that it has been documented and cited here long ago. This is a well known FACT. The fact that you don't know it tells me how much "research" you have done on this subject.
Huh???? I'm still waiting for your first "contribution". It's evident that you haven't done much reading on these creatures, so I'm not going to repeat it. Go back and do some reading. Maybe you will learn why these creatures have survived for a billion years, and have thwarted farmers efforts to get rid of them for centuries. You can knock them back, but they aren't going away. They come back. Alfalfa Stem Nematodes (yes, they even renamed them for the crop they do the most damage to) can undergo anhydrobiosis, a state of drying to near death, and persist in plant debris, on seeds, or in dry soil for a very long time, meaning years. So you better start watching your alfalfa meal. It's waiting to make it's move, and it's got you in it's sights for disrespecting it...
Thanks for the "tips", though. I'm sure you have the problem solved, even though you don't have the problem.
The thread is not too large for anyone to read. The point is to start at the beginning, subscribe, and update your reading daily,which I'm sure you do with this thread. We are like minded people, with the exception of the troll Papaduck, who lives to troll, argue, and try to get the thread binned. We are trying to solve a problem, he is trying to dismiss it, as he hasn't encountered it in England. There should be this thread, and another one, started by him, where he can pontificate, act like he is an authority, and just be the consummate bore he is. He can start a thread : Listen to ME, everybody, because I never had a dud, because I am such a superior grower, that I know how to diagnose and fix everything just by glancing at pictures and figuring out what grower error and nutrient deficiencies are really the cause of "dudding". "Your Errant Growing Errors Explained", could be the title. I'm sure there will be many subscribers to that one.
Just kidding. No one likes to read boorish blah, blah, blah.
On the other hand, you could try to filter his posts out, and you will shorten the thread to actual contributions, and a lot less blah, blah, blah, and him lecturing to himself. Most of us here know how to grow, have been doing it for a long time, and have the ability to recognize a pathogen and the dudding it is causing. We don't need lectures on grower error and how we don't know how to feed our plants. That's just a combination of arrogance and ignorance. Now, if we could keep it on topic, which is the causes of dudding, and NOT plant nutrition and the ever unpopular "grower error". The one person calling out everyone for their grower errors is making the biggest error of all. Don't feed the troll, and the problem goes away. But don't feel bad, you can always tune into his thread on "Grower Error".
The easiest thing this site could do, is put dislike choice on all posts. It would be great, unless they create multiple accounts, to boost their position. A good network could refuse multiple ID's from same IP address, and ban (drop).
If one gg4 plant in a 65 gallon pot is growing the shit out of it....then yup! I'm blowing her up!!
Nope , no Idea who sent off for testing to UC Davis as they don't openly claim to have done or POST THE RESULT OF THE TEST!!! LOL!! IF I Knew I would just out them and ask them for the test directly!
MeloCon and Nortica are organisms shown in peer reviewed studies to KILL these things RetroGrow !!!
The best part isn't They aren't NASTY ass pesticides like what you guys like to use on your plants!!!!
LOL!
Nope , no Idea who sent off for testing to UC Davis as they don't openly claim to have done or POST THE RESULT OF THE TEST!!! LOL!! IF I Knew I would just out them and ask them for the test directly!
MeloCon and Nortica are organisms shown in peer reviewed studies to KILL these things RetroGrow !!!
The best part isn't They aren't NASTY ass pesticides like what you guys like to use on your plants!!!!
LOL!
I apologize!! Went back and corrected my last post. MeloCon can be used between soil crops, 14 days before planting, and is EPA organic compliant.
Always glad to admit when I was wrong.
LOL back at you bro!!!
Your post indicates two things:
You haven't read the thread at all.
You have no clue what's going on, yet you claim to have discovered the cure! How stupid of us, who actually have done a considerable amount of reading/research/scoping/making videos/ trying to find a solution that is a real problem for some people, and the solution was right there under our eyes, yet only you could see it! Amazing!
Unfortunately, all wrong. Melocon is a fungus, and Nortica is a bacterium. They are made to "manage" nematodes on lawns. Notice it doesn't say eradicate, only manage. And it's made for lawns and vegetable gardens, to limit the growth of root nematodes. Unfortunately, what you didn't know because you haven't bothered to read, is that "we" are not dealing with root nematodes at all. We are dealing with alfalfa stem nematodes, otherwise known as Ditylenchus dipsaci, which enter the plants through the stomata, NOT THE ROOTS. Stomata. Get it? These products will have no effect on killing Ditylenchus dipsaci in cannabis, nor reversing any damage caused by them.
Also, I personally don't use " NASTY ass pesticides".
Not my thing. I try to kill them without using pesticides.
What others use is their business. I don't recommend it.
But before you come up with the next wonder cure, do a modicum of reading. At least show a basic understanding of what people are dealing with before commenting, because you just demonstrated the opposite.
yeah i didnt have the patience to type out all that on my phone but thats the problem.
bf you are right to a degree. its not the answer we've been trying to get to. maybe it doesnt exist but we are all aware of the meager control the bios can have in the soil. they are probably quite effective for an outdoor crop with this pest lying dormant. as far as a clonally propagated cut i dont think its the answer.
its pretty apparent what to do if you can turn your back on your veg plants and mothers. clean well and heat treat room. start over with non infected stock. im looking at how do we clean up a clone. storm shadow is doing some work as to how to work with these. thats really important info. i think it will help a lot of folks to see his results come in after a few rounds. im super interested in that work.
the other piece is how do we go back to not having to manage them without losing our breeding projects or elusive cuts.
may its not possible. but i doubt it.
some people like crosswords, i dont ask them whats so scary about 19 down. i dont say they are dumb for looking into the different words that might fit, even if i get one of the answers they didnt. sometimes i happily contribute. but i dont talk to them like they are dumb when i think i have the answer. especially because sometimes as we get closer to the end, we realize a few of our answers were wrong.
ego about right answers and attitude about wrong ones have no place here.
as for papduc ignoring the posts that people took time to wright and endlessly rambling about shit that would be an obvious wrong path if you had read is rude and annoying. but carry on. im not a censor. i just thought that it was fair that if i have to read you bickering on here and clogging shit up with your long winded misguided theories you can read what i think. i wont bother itemizing it for debate because its of no use. i have already more than once. you come back a week or two later with the same thing in a different wording.
this isnt nutritional or cutting placement or it wouldnt be new and it wouldnt spread.
im glad to hear any other theories you have and wont be a dick about it. rehashing your ideas in a slight varied manner without at least touching on that gap is disrespectful to the group. you have ignored it every time i brought it up. why are you criticizing me for not listing my disagreements with you. i have.
you side step it,
your theories are long and wrong and it gets people upset because its like youre not reading the thread or you are ignoring it til you think you have witty response because you are bored and like to debate. this isnt debate club. we debate sometimes to hash out theories but we dont just play devils advocate for interesting competitive debate. read the thread before you suggest plant health is the answer and decided if it fits the pattern. otherwise its just a waste of time to humor your inane ideas. we disagree when logic and rational is demanding we do so. otherwise we should be researching experimenting and debating ideas in a respectful manner. we all are wrong so far. noone need get ego about it. if you take a dud under your wing and successfully restore it, ill put up with some football spiking in the inzone or peacock dancing, otherwise im rolling my eyes at attitude.
MeloCon and Nortica are NOT organisms
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CaliGabe
I do think that's splitting hairs like I've done at times and you're talking semantics. Personally I'd consider them organisms and would draw the line at a virus.
Thx to BYF to bringing these to peeps attention even though it seems you've never dealt with them.
EDIT - str8edge beat me by a few seconds
Thx to BYF to bringing these to peeps attention even though it seems you've never dealt with them.
EDIT - str8edge beat me by a few seconds
it has been brought up. he poo pooed me for posting bayers write up on it actually. this has been discussed and is being used i think by some but its unlikely to rid the nematodes inside the plant and leaves spreading by cutting a real possibility. its not even a considered more than a control. but i think its definitely a good tool.
im glad he posted it but the tone was a little much considering his info wasnt so blindly missed by all us fools as he had thought.
things arent quite that simple with nematodes. biologicals are cool as fuck. i think its an essential part of all this, but far from a solution it of itself. not even close actually.
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CaliGabe
Thx for the clarification as I'm totally not up on the progression of the discussion. People's perspective change. Mine has on a lot of issues and always open to being wrong...which has happened a lot. Always willing to take my lumps.
Just watching my friend's outdoor Glue with a keen eye now. Looks awesome so far.
youre not alone on not being up lol. my perspective on this has changed a lot. ive been wrong a lot. i initially thought people were totally imaging this and were not understanding plant viruses or some bullshit, i changed my tune.
i dont know with 100% certainty what this is but hte nematodes being actually found and reported on is definately got me adopting this as the most likely theory. it fits for now. im imagining it will prove the cause. for some it already has. im still open to it being more complicated than that. it looks likely enough to assume, for the sake of putting energy into solving it from this perspective. more so than anything else for sure so......we are where we are.
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