bobthegrower
Member
She's a calmag hog, anything less than 5ml/gal shows.
PK 13/14 is actually a 0-10-11
"P" as it is labeled is P2O4. This is only 43% elemental P, the rest is just Oxygen.
"K" as it is labeled is K2O. This is only 84% elemental K, the rest is just Oxygen.
So, while Nitrogen, Calcium, Magnesium (etc) is listed in their proper percentages PK is not and needs to be accounted for.
I use a simplified version of %*ml*2.654 to get a rough ppm estimate. The 2.654 constant comes from the Mg/L conversion for gallons. Then I multiply by 0.43 or 0.84 when it applies to get the Oxygen out of the way.
I think that might have more to do with how the EC is calculated. Using free elements in the solution to create a kind of "wire" between the two ends of the probe, then measuring the strength of that current to compare it to a table where it chooses what EC to display. With the Cannazym being so highly chelated with Amino Acids and the such the electrical conductance is low but the elements are actually more available to the plant due to the molecular envelope they are inside.
Some elements will make an EC meter wiggle more than others. It's really all a "best guess" as the measured current they use as a baseline is normally based on a much more simple NaCl solution. We have all kinds of free elements and organic molecules in our nutrient solutions so the EC is really more of a relational tool (I read 1.2ec today, so next time around I'll use the same 1.2ec reading even if it's not accurate). An EC meter is intended to be precise, not accurate.
Your numbers are not correct and you make many leaps and conversions. We also have different bottles of PK 13/14.
Here's how it breaks down:
A liter of solution is 1000ml and contains 10% of an element.
Let's just assume, for the sake of discussion, that 1ml=1g
1ml of that 10% solution contains about 0.1g or 100mg of P2O5.
If 1ml of that solution is added to 999ml of water the element would be at a concentration of 100mg/L.
PPM=mg/L
Since P2O5 is only 43.7% Phosphorus then the actual ppm of that element when in use at 1ml per Liter is 43.7ppm.
It's really not too difficult. Convert % to mg per ml, multiply by ml used, and divide by the number of liters.
The Stoichiometry is:
_10 |1000mg| 1ml | 43.7
100 | 1 ml | 1L | 100 = 43.7 mg/L
For 1ml per gallon:
((10/100)*(1000mg/1ml)*1ml/3.78L)*(43.7/100)= 11.56 mg/L
We can get a little fancy here with our orders of operation.
10*10/3.78*ml used*0.437
Doing the 10/3.78 first is where my constant comes from: 2.645
And that's how I got to... %*2.645*ml used*conversion= approximate ppms
I think that the US canna is not the same as Europe ?A liter of solution is 1000ml and contains 10% of an element. ?
(2 * (30.97 g/mole))/(141.94 g/mol) = 0.4364 (g P/g P2O5) is 43.64% P ?P2O5 is only 43.7% Phosphorus
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]N: 0ppm
P: 21ppm
K: 22ppm
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]P = (7.4ppm*2.5) = 18.5ppm per litre of water
K = (5.1ppm*2.5) = 12.75ppm per litre of water
[/FONT][/FONT]
Also if you have a look at your original post You state the following for cannazym ...
There was also a lot of talk about silicates and when to add them. CANNA hadn't reached a consensus on when was best to add the Silica but they did agree that having it in the solution before the addition of the base nutrients did reduce the white precipitate cloud that forms when the alkaline is added to an element rich solution.
Cannazym 0-2-1 @ the recommended use of 9.5ml/gallon
"P" (43.7% Phosphorus)
2/100*1000mg/1ml*9.5ml/3.78L*43.7/100 = 21.97mg/L
"K" (83% Potassium)
1/100*1000mg/1ml*9.5ml/3.78L*83/100 = 20.86mg/L
I was a little off because I had my percentages a little jumbled (44% versus 43% and 83% versus 84%). Please understand the level of accuracy you are reaching for is not possible. You cannot use the minimum guaranteed analysis from a label and make the claim that, without a doubt, it has exactly XX.XXXppm of an element. Inevitably, there will always be more in the solution than we calculate which is why I round up.
I'm not sure why you're going through all this trouble to calculate weights from mols. All that work is done and I think that's where you're having problems.
Here's a much more reliable link on how to calculate fertilizer levels.
Snow Crash said:[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Cannazym is a 35% boost to Phosphorus levels and a 25% boost to Potassium levels. It alters the balance of cations and will most certainly impact the uptake of necessary elements. It isn't a drop of water in the bucket, it's a serious shift from the old ratios to new, and the numbers defend that opinion.[/FONT]
papaduc said:The "cloud" is a result of the raise in alkalinity from adding the silicon and will appear even in plain tap water.
It's a basic hydro practice to put your silicon into your water then ph to a more neutral range, before adding your nutes.
Next time you add silicon, bring your ph down to around 5 beforehand, then add your silicon. You won't see the cloud because the ph should never go above 7.5. Very basic stuff which I'd have thought the canna rep would have been well aware of.
The "cloud" is a result of the raise in alkalinity from adding the silicon and will appear even in plain tap water.
It's a basic hydro practice to put your silicon into your water then ph to a more neutral range, before adding your nutes.
Next time you add silicon, bring your ph down to around 5 beforehand, then add your silicon. You won't see the cloud because the ph should never go above 7.5. Very basic stuff which I'd have thought the canna rep would have been well aware of.
...
K = 75ppm
+ cannazym
K = 92ppm
It's more like... 7% increase in K ?
Have you ever seen, completed & heard of a controlled experiment to see how much difference Cannazym had on a plant's physiology ? I have all the equipment to test this including a brix meter and I've just started off some peppers to compare a few things like canna coco vs gold label media & Halo harpin spray. I might just pull two to one side to see what the difference is ? Or even a grow off against Hygrozyme ?
Also you still haven't answered my question on how RO water causes carbonates to form ? Are you suggesting that canna in pure H20 reacts with the air to create these ? Or are they formed by something else ?
With regards to using more of one bottle vs another of any 2 part nutrient, the answer I'd give is just make your own feeds up to whatever numbers you feel are best. If the way the two halves are split doesn't make it easy, buy something that does. Basic tomato food is great and just as concentrated as canna.
There is no scientific proof that any set formula is the "one" for cannabis and it's all about trialing and finding out what works best in your own opinion. It's extremely easy to adjust or add to a feed, and it's not true that canna A needs to be combined with B in equal amounts for them to work in synergy because they're basic plant foods made from basic raw minerals and anyone who tells you anything else is reciting what the sales reps want you to believe.
There is no different, secret form of potassium or phosphate known to man other than that which all plant food companies already use and there are no secret energies floating around in these overpriced bottles of watered down shit you pay through your nose for. Like your girl telling you she needs the same brand shampoo and conditioner because they work together in synergy based on pro vitamin complexes... it's marketing bullshit plain and simple.
Plants like cannabis take in nutrients within a broad range and as long as you're within a set range as far as the salt content of the water is concerned, the plant will do the rest.
To take a basic one part feed of 5/5/5 for example, and add some potassium phosphate to bump up the PK levels and reduce nitrogen, is a basic adjustment which doesn't even require meticulous planning or rigorous calculating, like adding bonemeal to a garden, it's about adjusting to a rough figure, but having a clear idea of what elements are in there in the greater amounts.
And with regards to cannazym, there are many enzyme products on the market which are much more concentrated than the watered down zym garbage you get from canna etc, and to adjust your phosphorus or potassium levels during flower, even with food grade minerals is extremely cheap.
Anyone who uses cannazym, honestly, is running a bottle of water with token gestures in the form of bits and bobs of this and that, which can all be sourced very easily elsewhere. Enzyme products that are tens of times more concentrated than cannacrap are available everywhere, and food grade potassium and phosphorus is also very cheap. On a dialed grow, you should never notice a gain from using cannazym. It's a waste-of-money product for people who are sold gimmicks.
I've used almost every nutrient out there, and right now, I'm using chempak high nitrogen feed for veg, and some tomato food for flower.
And do my buds look any less pretty than they did on the expensive shit?
If they did, I'd pay the extra. Believe me.
My advice to the OP, make your numbers up using whatever you want mate. It's a myth promoted by nutrient companies to people who don't understand basic plant nutrition, that branded bottles need to be used in conjunction with one another.
The "cloud" is a result of the raise in alkalinity from adding the silicon and will appear even in plain tap water.
It's a basic hydro practice to put your silicon into your water then ph to a more neutral range, before adding your nutes.
Next time you add silicon, bring your ph down to around 5 beforehand, then add your silicon. You won't see the cloud because the ph should never go above 7.5. Very basic stuff which I'd have thought the canna rep would have been well aware of.
Don't listen to half of what they tell you. This is the same company who suggest adding PK once, at one point in flower... and never again. Which seems counter intuitive to say the least. Their dutch counterparts Hesi suggest running it from the onset of flower and increasing it throughout bloom.
If the "science" was really that strong, two major companies wouldn't be so wildly polarised on a fundamental aspect of feeding. Or on whether K is really required in twice the amount of P.
What we know is to reduce nitrogen and increase P&K by ratio in flowering. By how much and how you do it is up to you.
Dude, Seriously?
I mean, no one could really think that an increase of 17ppm to 92ppm is a 7% increase. Not with a relatively basic education. I mean, just an estimate, I can say that adding 17 to less than 100 is more than 17%. That's just how percentages work...
92-75=17
17/75= 0.22667
That's about 23%, hombre.
Even with your own numbers you are confused making the simplest of calculations. You'll come around eventually, but you need to drop the way you are trying to calculate this and to start earning some credibility here.
Snow Crash said:Do I spend my free time, and limited grow space, on "experiments?"
No.
I've seen some side by sides. I don't currently use Cannazym and have had better experiences using Botanicare's Hydroplex at 1/5th the strength for the same price.
Snow Crash said:...existing CO2 in the water, being a gas, passes through the RO membrane but the alkaline constituents, primarily HCO3 (bicarbonate), are removed as part of the reject water. In the feed water (tap water) the HCO3 neutralizes the acid-causing CO2. In the product water (RO filtered), with HCO3 greatly reduced, the CO2 is free to combine with the H2O to form carbonic acid: CO2 + H2O > H2CO.
Source: Hydrologic Systems
Once you have Carbonic Acid making the jump to Calcium Bicarbonate is not a long reach. There will be many reactive ions available for precipitation from the nutrient program which will lockout elements; preventing them from being as available to the roots.
This isn't to say all of the elements are locked out. Or RO water is bad, or poisonous to plants. Far from it, the system is not ruined, but it's also not being run as intended. I believe people should be aware that, of the two compounds to be concerned about here -Chlorides and Carbonates - the Carbonates can actually dick with your nutrient program. Chlorine itself is an essential element for plant growth and while not totally compatible with organics it certainly isn't the only thing worth knowing about when it comes to filtering the water.
Carbonic acid cannot combine with calcium to form calcium carbonate scale. Calcium carbonate scaling tendency is estimated using the Langelier saturation index. Adding too much sulfuric acid to control carbonate scales may result in calcium sulfate, barium sulfate, or strontium sulfate scale formation on the reverses osmosis membrane.
Snow Crash said:but you need to drop the way you are trying to calculate this and to start earning some credibility here.
I'm finished with this discussion. We all growing good pot and that's what matters. Not how much credibility you have behind your computer screenThe day you stop racing, is the day you win the race.
I'm finished with this discussion....
Thank god.
I'm going to certainly ignore your trolling ass in the future.