Do You Get CHS Symptoms from Neem/Aza? Which do you get, Diarreah or Constipation??

[Cvh]

^CHS is a rare condition. I have also read numerous posts about people who safely use this product for a decade or so on Cannabis grows and have no symptoms. Only a very small percentage of modern country (Western) Cannabis users gets this illness since around 2004.

I don't think you are a CHS sufferer, but do you recognise the symptoms of this illness around you (friends, stories from other people,...)?
And if so, were those people using a Cannabis derived product that was grown with the aid of Aza/Neem?

 

[ozzieAI]

no one i know of has CHS. as you said it is rare..i mean i rub neem oil on to my skin/scalp with no ill effects. i have people with serious medical conditions using my cannabis and none of them have any issues either...

if you look at the facts and evidence that is available on CHS there is no mention as neem used in cannabis growing as cause of CHS...NONE....

 

[Cvh]

^True, but none the less is it interesting to research that neem/aza might be the cause.
Solely because of the fact that the start of the use of Neem/Aza and the first documented CHS cases started around the same time.

I would hate it more that it would be Cannabis itself that caused this mysterious sickness around 2004 with prior +10k years of human safe use and not because of some new kind of chemical additive or (organic) poison that was used during growth or not because of a chemical extraction method.

 

[ozzieAI]

I would hate it more that it would be because of Cannabis itself

unfortunately from the hours of 'research' i have done that is exactly what the cause is...

 

[Cvh]

^That would indeed be the answer I would really hate.
I personnaly haven't ruled out the possiblity that it's just coincidence that the first documented CHS cases and the use of neem/aza started around the same time period. And that CHS existed since ancient times but was never previously documented by the medical world.

But I would really hate it that Cannabis itself is to blame. Easier and better for the community would be the blame something new that was recently introduced in the growth or manufacturing of Cannabis derived products.

Being a organic grower myself, I would still prefer to blame (in the very rare cases, maybe allergic or synergetic type of reaction as CHS is) some kind of new organic amendment/poison then Cannabis itself.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

People suffer from CHS through the use of THC isolate. Yes CHS exists. CHS, and the people who suffer from it, do not care what uneducated people believe on some forum on the net.

THE QUESTION IS CHS AND DIARRHEA.

Unless you have helpful and on-topic info about CHS and diarrhea, please find one of the other threads on aza you've already puked in and vent there. Lyfespan, you're completely wrong. Go back and re-do your research.

Ty gry. CVH, I appreciate your efforts but they won't listen. I've found the ignorants on this subject to remain staunchly ignorant until someone close to them has aza issues. It's like the people adamant against cannabis, till their sister gets their cancer cured by it. No way you'll confuse them with the facts.

Got aza issues? Does it block you up?

 

[ozzieAI]

People suffer from CHS through the use of THC isolate. Yes CHS exists. CHS, and the people who suffer from it, do not care what uneducated people believe on some forum on the net.

THE QUESTION IS CHS AND DIARRHEA.

Unless you have helpful and on-topic info about CHS and diarrhea, please find one of the other threads on aza you've already puked in and vent there.

Ty gry. CVH, I appreciate your efforts but they won't listen. I've found the ignorants on this subject to remain staunchly ignorant until someone close to them has aza issues. It's like the people adamant against cannabis, till their sister gets their cancer cured by it. No way you'll confuse them with the facts.

Got aza issues? Does it block you up?

don't get me wrong Dougy i believe that CHS is real, I just can't find any evidence it is caused by neem...

BTW i feel my posts are On-Topic since your title says:

Do You Get CHS Symptoms from Neem/Aza?

being a Neem/cannabis user/grower i responded with a solid NO...for me and those who partake in my harvest...

the second part of your question:

Which do you get, Diarreah or Constipation??

I provided the results of what 98 patients with CHS suffer from that clearly gave you the #'s of who suffers from what...you are welcome...

you call out as people being ignorant when you display the exact same behaviour when it comes to not considering other factors that can possibly cause CHS other than neem/aza...

in all of the scientific material i have read neem/aza is not mentioned once as a cause...

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

BTW i feel my posts are On-Topic since your title says: being a Neem/cannabis user/grower i responded with a solid NO...for me and those who partake in my harvest...

Thank you for sharing. Your post is irrelevant because your answer to the first part (of a two part question) is no. Thank you for continuing to repeat your position where it is not requested.


Cvh already answered your other question.

Unless you have "ACTUAL" experience with CHS or Aza issues, your opinion is worthless. Please do your best to use your intelligence before posting, and remember it gets lower the more emotional you get about a subject.

 

[Lyfespan]

used azamax for years, no bullshit CHS or anything else. even press rosin and dabbing the shit.

 

[Sunshineinabag]

no one i know of has CHS. as you said it is rare..i mean i rub neem oil on to my skin/scalp with no ill effects. i have people with serious medical conditions using my cannabis and none of them have any issues either...

if you look at the facts and evidence that is available on CHS there is no mention as neem used in cannabis growing as cause of CHS...NONE....

I thought they were being kinda tin foil hatters when I first heard about it......and I have family who are involved with the New England journal of medicine so I'm prone to bounce stuff off their heads from time to time for clarity.
Everyone has a diff homeostasis .........the symptoms sounded to me a lot like tick borne diseases that folks have been just realizing they are susceptible to so its not something that should be shoved aside as fairy tale. Just trying to keep things in perspective for myself. My biggest issue is if indeed folks to suffer from it what can be done to eliviate the symptoms?

 

[Switcher56]

Thank you for sharing. Your post is irrelevant because your answer to the first part (of a two part question) is no. Thank you for continuing to repeat your position where it is not requested.


Cvh already answered your other question.

Unless you have "ACTUAL" experience with CHS or Aza issues, your opinion is worthless. Please do your best to use your intelligence before posting, and remember it gets lower the more emotional you get about a subject.

Wow! Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

 

[ozzieAI]

Thank you for sharing. Your post is irrelevant because your answer to the first part (of a two part question) is no. Thank you for continuing to repeat your position where it is not requested.


Cvh already answered your other question.

Unless you have "ACTUAL" experience with CHS or Aza issues, your opinion is worthless. Please do your best to use your intelligence before posting, and remember it gets lower the more emotional you get about a subject.

c'mon Dougy...i am the only one that provided actual facts regarding your question...if the numbers are rounded up/down you'll see that 20% had Diarrhea and 3% had Constipation and 2% had both...

i know that it must of been tough for you are admit that neem isn't the cause of all CHS...that was really big of you...well done...

People suffer from CHS through the use of THC isolate.

thanks for concern about my intelligence and emotional welfare...that is very generous of you...

wouldn't be nice if those CHS sufferers you keep running into monthly were able to login and contribute to these threads of yours...

I'm STILL running in to people monthly who've had it for years and not known the cause.

if you want to keep playing this neg rep game we can see who gets who down to 0 first...

 

[ozzieAI]

actually it looks like CHS dates back to 2001 going by this journal: https://gut.bmj.com/content/53/11/1566

Nineteen patients were identified following an original clinical observation by Allen linking chronic cannabis abuse to a cyclical vomiting illness in several cases in South Australia in 2001. Patients were either referred by doctors (12 cases), self referred (two cases), or identified on the ward by the nursing staff (five cases) during acute admission for profuse vomiting. Of these 19 patients, five refused consent and were lost to follow up and 14 fully consented for publication and presentation. Each patient was allotted a letter of the alphabet to preserve anonymity. Patients were followed up with serial urine drug screens and regular clinical consultations to chart their clinical course.

this makes neem as a cause less likely....since 2004 was the year neem was approved for use in Australia...

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

used azamax for years, no bullshit CHS or anything else. even press rosin and dabbing the shit.

Nobody with aza issues cares about those who do not have reactions to it. Your disbelief does absolutely nothing for the pain and agony we feel from it. Please move on to subjects you have experience with. Issues with sensitivity to aza is clearly not one one of them.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

If anyone else has tested whether their issue is aza or chs, and has concrete information on whether you get diarrhea or constipation every time, please chime in. Statistics gleaned from data with zero accounting for aza is worthless here.

The rest of you can continue to make your intelligence and education very plain to all, for the lifespan of this forum.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[Cvh]

My biggest issue is if indeed folks to suffer from it what can be done to eliviate the symptoms?

Chili peppers! Seriously.

I forgot how it exactly worked. But it had something to do with the Capsaicin in Chili peppers unblocking/resetting the oversaturaded CB1, CB2,... receptors.

Here is a link to a study:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...d_Hyperemesis_Syndrome_with_Topical_Capsaicin

(Google for more info, lots more positive results can easily be found)

 

[Cvh]

Here is a repost of a post I made more then a year ago in one of D.C. his other threads.
(Full length article: https://acgcasereports.gi.org/succe...-hyperemesis-syndrome-with-topical-capsaicin/ )

Successful Treatment of Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome with Topical Capsaicin

Andrew M. Moon, MD, MPH1, Sarah A. Buckley, MD2, and Nicholas M. Mark, MD3

1Division of Gastroenterology and Hepatology, University of North Carolina School of Medicine, Chapel Hill, NC
2Hematology/Oncology Fellowship Program, University of Washington, Seattle, WA
3Division of Pulmonary and Critical Care, University of Washington, Seattle, WA

ACG Case Rep J 2018;5:e3. https://dx.doi.org/10.14309/crj.2018.3. Published online: January 3, 2018.

Abstract
Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome (CHS) is a clinical entity in which marijuana users develop nausea, vomiting, and abdominal pain that improves with hot water bathing or cannabis cessation. Previous models suggest that CHS arises solely from the derangement of cannabinoid receptor type 1 signaling. However, involvement of transient receptor potential vanilloid subtype 1 (TRPV1) receptor, which is activated by marijuana, capsaicin, and heat, could fill gaps in existing models, including the enigmatic role of hot water bathing. We propose that chronic cannabis use decreases TRPV1 signaling and alters gastric motility, and we report the case of a CHS patient whose symptoms improved after topical capsaicin.

Introduction
Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome (CHS) is a clinical entity characterized by chronic marijuana use, intractable vomiting, and relief of symptoms with hot-water bathing, exemplifying the enigmatic role of temperature in attenuating symptoms.1–3 A recent review proposed that transient receptor potential vanilloid subtype 1 (TRPV1) receptor, which is involved in gastric motility and is activated by cannabinoids, high temperatures, and capsaicin, is centrally involved in the pathogenesis of CHS (Figure 1).4

Case Report
A 47-year-old man with a decade-long history of marijuana use of up to several grams daily presented to the gastroenterology clinic with 8 years of abdominal pain, nausea, and vomiting relieved by up to 4 hours of hot-water bathing daily. Computed tomography (CT) of the abdomen and pelvis showed an unremarkable liver, no biliary duct dilatation, normal gallbladder, normal pancreatic body and head, normal spleen, and no bowel obstruction or inflammation. Abdominal ultrasound revealed a liver with normal size and echotexture, antegrade portal flow, non-dilated bile ducts, and a gallbladder without gallstones, wall thickening, or pericholecystic fluid. Upper endoscopy demonstrated a normal esophagus, normal gastric mucosa, and normal examined duodenum. Biopsies were negative for Helicobacter pylori. Colonoscopy showed normal colonic mucosa and terminal ileum. The patient had no improvement with dicyclomine, ranitidine, and twice-daily omeprazole. He was diagnosed with CHS and encouraged to discontinue marijuana.

Figure 1. Proposed pathophysiology of cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome. TRPV1 is expressed in area postrema of the medulla, along gastric enteric and vagal nerves, and on cutaneous receptors in the dermis and epidermis. Prolonged exposure to cannabinoids inactivates TRPV1, potentially resulting in central nausea, altered gastric motility, and abdominal pain. Exposure to nociceptive heat, such as with compulsive hot-water bathing, may transiently augment cutaneous TRPV1 firing and restore gastric motility, temporarily mitigating symptoms. Use of another TRPV1 agonist, capsaicin, may also provide relief. Cessation of marijuana use gradually leads to normalization of TRPV1 function and fully ameliorates symptoms.

The patient continued marijuana use and presented several weeks later to the emergency department with severe, periumbilical, stabbing pain associated with nausea and vomiting. He had a temperature of 37.1°C, heart rate 86 beats/min, blood pressure 146/74 mm Hg, and oxygen saturation 98% on ambient air. Labs showed a white blood cell count 14,000 cells/µL, potassium 3.1 mEq/L, and normal hemoglobin, creatinine, blood urea nitrogen, aspartate aminotransferase, alanine aminotransferase, total bilirubin, albumin, lipase, and urinalysis. Abdominal CT scan was unchanged from the previous scan. He was treated with intravenous fluids, potassium, ondansetron, metoclopramide, prochlorperazine, fentanyl, viscous lidocaine, aluminum hydroxide/magnesium hydroxide/simethicone, and pantoprazole without improvement of symptoms. We applied capsaicin cream (0.075%) to a 15 × 25 cm area in the periumbilical region, with reapplications every 4 hours. The patient reported burning of the skin and improvement in the intensity of his stabbing abdominal pain and nausea a few hours after the first application of capsaicin. After the second dose, he noted complete resolution of his nausea. He received 2 more doses, which resulted in complete improvement of his abdominal pain. He was discharged the following day with a prescription for topical capsaicin. Over the following 3 months, the patient had no visits to our hospital system or any other providers included in Epic Care Everywhere within Washington State.

Discussion
The efficacy of capsaicin in CHS in our case lends credence to the role of TRPV1 in this syndrome. Previous models suggesting that cannabinoid receptor type 1 (CB1) is solely responsible for CHS are unsatisfying for several reasons. First, peripheral activation of CB1 slows gastric transit, but a case series of CHS patients described normal or increased transit time and no gastroparesis symptoms.5,6 Second, previous models suggested that hot-water bathing is an adaptive response to the hypothermic effects of cannabinoids. However, activation of CB1 should lead to hot-water bathing in all marijuana users, not just CHS patients who seem to engage in hot-water bathing as a learned behavior to treat symptoms. Finally, this model fails to explain why only some patients are susceptible to CHS, why there is latency from onset of marijuana use to symptoms, and why only chronic users are affected.

TRPV1 is a nonselective cation channel activated by noxious heat and capsaicin. This receptor is expressed throughout the gastrointestinal tract, including vagal sensory neurons, intrinsic enteric neurons in the myenteric plexus, and gastric epithelial cells.7,8 Within the central nervous system, there is a high density of TRPV1 in the area postrema, known as the chemoreceptor trigger zone. Activation of TRPV1 has potent anti-emetic effects, which may be mediated by depletion of substance P from neural circuits traveling to the nucleus tractus solitarius.9,10

Exogenous cannabinoids, including delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinoil, activate both CB1 and TRPV1.11 In vitro studies demonstrate that exogenous cannabinoids lead to dephosphorylation of TRPV1 and subsequent receptor desensitization.10 Therefore, chronic exposure to cannabinoids could downregulate or desensitize TRPV1 signaling, explaining how prolonged exposure to cannabinoids might lead to decreased TRPV1 signaling, altered gastric motility, and emesis. The learned behavior of compulsive hot-water bathing may be an attempt to normalize diminished TRPV1 activity by deliberate exposure to another TRPV1 agonist, nociceptive heat. Therefore, TRPV1 agonists such as topical capsaicin, which has a longer half-life than oral capsaicin, might augment TRPV1 activity and provide a less burdensome approach to treating CHS.12

One published case report and 2 case series have described successful treatment of 15 CHS patients with topical capsaicin.13–15 In all cases, patients with heavy marijuana use presented to the emergency department with nausea, vomiting, and abdominal pain improved by application of topical capsaicin preparation (0.075%). Some have questioned the lack of advanced diagnostics, such as endoscopic studies and CT imaging in these cases. In addition, these patients had a short period of observation in the emergency department with unclear clinical courses after discharge.16 These weaknesses do not apply to our case, given the extensive workup and prolonged inpatient observation.

Marijuana is the most frequently used illicit drug in the United States. Its recent legalization in many states has raised concerns of increased use and a resulting rise in CHS incidence.17,18 For these reasons, a better understanding of CHS pathogenesis and novel treatment strategies are increasingly important. Our case lends further credence to the role of TRPV1 in CHS, although only limited conclusions can be drawn from this single case with incomplete confirmed follow-up. We believe a prospective study, such as the planned randomized controlled trial examining capsaicin in cyclic vomiting syndrome, could adequately assess the efficacy of capsaicin for CHS.

 

[Lyfespan]

Chili peppers! Seriously.

I forgot how it exactly worked. But it had something to do with the Capsaicin in Chili peppers unblocking/resetting the oversaturaded CB1, CB2,... receptors.

Here is a link to a study:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...d_Hyperemesis_Syndrome_with_Topical_Capsaicin

(Google for more info, lots more positive results can easily be found)

capsaicin works hepatically, i just love all this speculation in here, its harry potter ridiculous

 

[Lyfespan]

do you know why making your body hot shuts down certain functions? whats this directly related to?

 

[Lyfespan]

for the real reasons people get CH you need to dig past the fact that CB1 or 2 are involved and look for underlying factors. because the symptoms of CH also exist in other conditions.

look up what causes morning sickness, ghrp-2 and 4, and ghrelin and leptin