Do wrong right

[OG Tree Grower]

I noticed you don't run any mh bulbs in the mix. Do you run any during veg or just the hortilux all the way? When I did tables I was hps start to finish but I find with trees you need a good healthy veg and the plants seem to love a 30% mix.

Those drop ceilings are cool, never saw that before.

Nice whole plant shots of it opened up.

Sorry if I missed it but how many plants per light and what size final pot?

 

[rykus]

I just run sodiums, the halides just don't last and the weight was down a bit especially if they get old at all.... I run the HPS till they don't stay lit, 6 days-4years is about the range, lol... But they produce till the end. I like that. Now I get used ones for free from some bigger commercial guys I know.

Those are in 15gallon hard pots, but this run I am doing the old Van Isle big lime green HP in 25gal geopots.

I agree 100% on the trees needing health not only in veg but the whole way because the low plant numbers and the slightly longer grow time, but I find the Hortilux have enough blue and that working out the soil/feed end has given me more than the lighting(partly because of the good reflection and high light intensity in the room) as far as yeild health and quality.

My friend runs about 33 % halide, but is shades and cool tubes slammed on multiple small plants they veg longer than me.... The guys that designed those drop ceilings ran halides with conversion bulbs because of the good spectrum... Still the highest yield I saw from a 8 light fresh air was those guys with the super rooms and hydro buckets. 18 3/4 lbs off 9 plants I think....

 

[OG Tree Grower]

My new room design is 10x10x8 lit by 4 X 1000w all spaced 2.5 feet from the walls to maintain optimum light anywhere in the room, except the deepest part of the corners. I run 9 plants in the room, I found this to be optimum size for minimal veg and keeps things even so branches can evenly fill the entire room. The main disadvantage to this is crawling everywhere after week 2 flower but my next build will be 10x10 cage warpped in removable Mylar in a much larger lung room and will make working so much easier.

I run 1 mh and 3 hps, alternated every other day until week 3-4 then it goes straight hps

This room is on its third run will killer results but it has /had another weak point, my 14" fan and filter that takes up most of one corrner. My lo ceiling didn't allow me to hang it centred above as usual so I had to improvise , using a heavily trained plant and a dirt plant on a self to take up the other wise wasted space I still managed to make the corrner produce respectable numbers. Now your probably wondering why the fuck is he telling me this?

Well I just installed our drop ceiling on one side of the room, if I like it and it works for my room at the end of this run I'm gonna replace my 14" fan and filter with dual 12's and run that shit in your drop ceiling. Thanks dude also gonna try your hortilux theory even tho it worries me I think my lighting is beyond what a plant can use without co2 anyways so one side of the room is now gonna be left alone bulb wise until/if I notice a differance.

How far apart are your bulbs?
Are you manually lowering and raising those daily or do they stay put and just alternate onff?
Are you and your friends all still on magnetic ballasts?
I've only ever seen one other dirt farmer with results like that. Much respect.

 

[P-NUT]

Everytime I see this thread title I think its gonna be about the devil makes 3. I assume you mustve heard of them. If your gonna raise a rykus 1 word of advice if your gonna do wrong do wrong right.

 

[rykus]

Ya I admit I am a pretty big fan... Tow might have been a better song for of our lives as growers ,lol.

Thanks OGtrees! If ya wanna get all the benefits of that room design before I bastardized it, lol, the room is 12x16 its 8 lights, in the original design they used paint rollers to apply the Mylar right to. The drywall and ceiling tiles using Super 77 spray glue, then they screw on the drywall and seal the seams with reflective heating and ducting tape. Perfect finish, almost clean able if your careful. They would hang the metal cage for the drop ceiling like in offices and schools so all the ducting and electrical was not in the room and the cubic air volume was less.

The big differences are they had either 2 fans in line or two ducts each with a fan. One on a variable speed constant for negative air pressure and keep humidity down, other on thermostat.

They put those out takes in the middle as opposed to the end where I. Have mine, because they also put a turbo air fan in each corner pointing up creating a "Venturi" effect and making no dead air spots in the room.

Another thing is they solid mounted their bulbs right at max height... I like to run mine up high till day 21 or so of flower then drop down to the widest best part of the plant to get max light in to all the main producing sites, seems weird I guess but I just got sick of growing shit to strip it off.... Now I bend and train as I water and just kind give them a daily turn, bend ,water when I'm out there working

Yeah, most of our stuff is still magnetic, got a bunch of digi's too but they hate flips....the copper core mags are hard to beat for hrs of operation,lol still running some since the 90's!

I am trying to plan a build for my 8hr cycles using DE 1000's and either LED or CMH.

 

[OG Tree Grower]

Thanks rykus!

I tried to just staple Mylar there first but it had to many hotspots and shined light places I didn't need or want it so I taped the Mylar to corrugated plastic sheets first and then screwed it up there on a 45 deg angle, took about 15 mins lol. Will get some exhaust tape later now that you mention that! Very coo ideal man

I dunno if I saw it on here or OG but another idea I'm doing that you may like too is a light mover, with one bare bulb at each end on pulleys , as one goes up the other does down, should help with hotspots and cut down on me having to manually move lights.

 

[Bmac1]

Not sure how I missed this one but I am tuned in now. Will check out the breeding thread as well. Best of luck Rykus.

 

[rykus]

Thanks Bmac! Thought this would be a good contribution, might not be the best way for lots of folk but there should be some good logic to help most growers in some way I hope.


I know I've learned a lot from many on here!

 

[Bmac1]

I am a closet grower through and through. Using a tent for veg and another for flower but I dream of the scale you have here. I just need to get my own place which is much easier said than done with the market the way it is.

 

[rykus]

Your looking at it the wrong way, first read rich dad poor dad and maybe a few other books by the same author.... Then factor in cost of smoke in your expense margin.... Now add grey area income from flower/extract/seed production ( not to recommend looking for grey areas but the most legit business does too)

Never lost money on a house I bought, but I was publicly embarrassed and have a conscience about a rental I was living at that was busted when I was a kid.... Nice when you clean up and patch holes ect... But the cops dumped dirt all over and stomped it into the carpets, house looked destroyed... Not cool.

Think of if you'd bought in 2010 after the crash, your hobby would have been safer and more controlled and enjoyable, licensing was available and clubs where seeking variety... You would have had it paying itself and enjoyed a nice 100-500k jump in price as the market boomed....

I will never and am not talking shit on home growers, and the tents are great for not ruining rentals like people use too, but at the same time people who smoke weed have a tendency to put off important things and don't always take steps to protect their future.... This is very bad if there is ever a problem, that is why you are a smart man IMO for playing it safe this summer!

The legal cost/implications from a closet grow can be debilitating and beyond stressful, and can carry life long effects.... At least if your doing a bit more you can retain legal advise pre emptively and if you own your own place it becomes much safer and less stressful, and as it is almost zero harm crime it is looked at differently by peers in a court situation, a good lawyer and its squashed 99% of the time...

Just my opinion, but it carries some truths.

 

[OG Tree Grower]

Gonna pick your brain on a few things

why do you turn your plants rather than letting them grow into there space and gravitate towards the light? Is it room/system dependant?

Reason I ask is because I found that I lose 3-4 hours growth while the plant reorientates it self. There seems to be enough light with the traditional freedom bucket light pattern and my new pattern that that plants don't grow to wonky without turning them

Why don't you trim more of the sucker branches? Do you find you do better leaving them and just opening the plant up like you said to ripen them? Or do you make hash/butter/shatter with it?

Why don't you have plants In between the lights as well? Is that your wind tunnel or something?

When running co2 what ppm?
What kinda food schedule do you run? Silica supplement ?

 

[rykus]

No worries, as a personal issues led to a lot of these methods... Basically I had at one time 7-10 employees and 7 places of 20+ lights each, and one big one that I used to train people for expansion.... I had a few experienced people leave, hired a few too many new people, and got a little busy... They started partying and I fired a lot of people..... Replaced them with just different methods and tried to maximize the potential I already had.

Then prices dumped to the lowest I ever saw, so it was good timing all around. I learned even more and worked my system to be the cheapest, most efficient amd lowest work hrs I could.

I turn the plants because for one that is how I get the most consistent size quality and density through the room. I use to just strip the whole backs and lolly pro every branch, but that required many hrs and workers, all who also required many hrs and a pay cheque... I had one variety in particular that was very large flowered but if it did not get enough. Direct light made just brutal shaggy fluff that was the bane of every trimmers existence and cost lots to process. So we turned them. At first just 180 a week but then sides where
empty and during stretch one side was always bigger then empty, so evolved to 1/4 turn every second day. Less burn, less stretch of one side into light. More even branching and structure. The branches stay shorter and stronger from less days direct light during stretch and the trauma helps build stronger branching that in turn holds more bud with less tying and staking. Triple win. Try it, works on every variety I've tried. Not really room or system dependant IMO but best for side lighting but does help strength, doesn't work if you tie to walls or ceiling...

I still get the most even consistent growth fallowing this and I have great saturation as well, still brings my average over a year up from 12-14 per room... And I hit over 16 on every room once and in at least one every time!as far as the plant re orienting itself also remember that once flowered many times the side nearest the light will suffer heat stress and be less supported so it also gives the plants a break to process the light energy as well..

I don't take more off because I use to have to pay 10-20 bucks a plant two to three times a crop to get them stripped, and some would be over and under stripped causing loses and problems.... This way I just after I turn the plant spend the rest of the 20 seconds I'm watering,or a little longer if I turn and fluff then water, to pull all the branches down and out to the light. It's really a balance as I leave some big ones going up, but all the suckers that would normally shoot straight up the inside and be removed, I bend out to the light.

I still try to go through in around day 21-30 and take all the side small stuff, but leave everything the size of about a dime and just try to get it light. You'll see. Just go in you room and gently start pushing and pulling the branches around a bit to get a feel, you'll feel they bend quite well and get small breaks that heal fast. Easy to get light enough to lots of sites then the plant lifts itself back over the few days. Also if branches droop toward light I just bend them down lower and the sides all grow up... Lots more bud, you see. And yes I just put the smalls to the sides for gifts, smoke, hash, trades ect ect. Try to get less than a lbs per room of small though or it adds up.

In my single row rooms with staggered lights I do put short varieties or smaller plants between the lights, but in these rooms they yield well so I just appreciate the aisle... Sometimes I run testers in smaller containers and that but really the room is very full at week 4 flower. Not a lot of light hits the floor so the testers usually are not ideal... I just use the way that does best and try to make small adjustments. This is a 9 year project and has been very consistent.this is the current evolution so just micro changes now.licenced and under plant count too...

I usually run some organics in my soil, I think I put in my mix from that run earlier, and feed a mix of organic and a few boosters and cheap one part base food, I used maxi bloom till Monsanto bought GH, then Supernatural bloom. Advanced bud igniter I like, monsta bud or massive is a staple, usually a 0-50-30 or close, sometimes overdrive if I'm feeling fancy.

I like Alaska fish and earth juice, cheap and good. Like growth plus and saturator as a foliar in veg. I fed high high 2.5-3.5 EC so ya I was heavy on silica. I like the canna labs gel as it's cheap and light to carry. But found recently that potassium was probably a cause of a few yield issues I had, so moving to no till organics in various forms, testing still, but is very very promising! Even cheaper and easier, bigger so far, and healthier too boot. Maybe not for every one but I'm trying to develope a system that works in my ideals and will be competitive one real farmers take over.... They won't be as easily sold on bottle nutes.... Especially if prices tank, the miracle water won't be cost effective unless the crooks cut their margins!

I run my co2 high too, and if I see nute burn I keep going, but usually about 300-500 higher than feed in PPM. So start at 1500 and hit 2800 at week 4-5 , probably wasteful, but I've seen plants start to droop leaves from full up to parallel with ground after a heavy feed and bumped Co2 and they come right back harder and better than ever!

Might be doing fresh air with better climate control in my next big builds, still thinking it through, as I will be over head light and 25 gal geo pots.... Thinking it all through but I'll post up once she's under way....

Gotta get a move on though, I'm slacking this morning!
Cheers

 

[OG Tree Grower]

All makes sense , and I hear ya with the over/under pruning. I always do that my self if at all possible.
I never noticed that with co2 before , I'll defiantly try it next time I see droop. Thanks

This room is my first air exchanged room since I was younger. Unfortunatly it's a new room design so I have nothing to compare it to but I would say my yields are very close if not the same as I am getting in semi/sealed rooms. If I wasn't so electrically constricted at this place I would seal it up for a few runs to see if it made any differance. I think right now my limiting factor is space. I honestly don't think I could pack any more bud in that room without losing a big chunk at the end to bud rot

 

[Tynehead Tom]

back when I was first learning to grow (28 years ago LOL), I was taught the value of vertical lighting and also was taught to rotate the plants just like you are doing, tho I turn a 1/4 every day right at lights on.

 

[rykus]

Been a while, got some pics of how its been going... busy...wasnt just ignoring my fallowers, thanks again guys.

My Ac problems persisted at my one place and nuked the third crop in a row, so brought in a investor to double up, all new gavitas, 25 gal geo pots, no till organic. going to be about 6 plants a light i think...

anyways heres the photo candy to bring you all back in line with how i grow.

the 12 600w 3 room flip

kush mono



pheno hunt room




nice little Pink Kush side branch :}

 

[rykus]

as you can see flipping between the three rooms really didnt affect the density or yield much on the pink kush.... they are short and wide because i was lazy and didnt raise my lights to encourage stretch, but still will do OK, could get a bit more next round for sure!

 

[rykus]

the big shop is looking pretty full and healthy this round, only one room of pink and a bunch of my stuff, so pretty fun.




heres a Skywalker i was gifted... allmost skywalking at about 7 foot!

 

[rykus]

Early narrow leaf i saved from years back, got a couple phenos...





My number 20 from the 11 female x john/king male, minty smell n huge HP growth

 

[rykus]

A lot of them pushing the 8 ft cielings... only broke one over so far....

just hit day 21 in all these by the way...





the craziest pinks ive ever grown in fresh air! thanks ICmag! loving the no till!

 

[rykus]

well thats all for now... could throw up more but dont really have the time so just heckle me if your bored,lol... ill make time.. pretty stoked right now all things considered!