Three Berries
Active member
The nutrient sequence is more important than nutrient quantity. Nutrient waste can be minimized using fewer nutrients with pure water, and with less fertilizer.
Do you mean when applying to the plant or mixing the nutes?
-
Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
-
Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!
DIY and other hydroponic formulas.
- Thread starter CannaT
- Start date
Do you mean when applying to the plant or mixing the nutes?
Now I'm using the same growing model except in a low lighting setting. I dropped over a couple of thousand watts using less than a 600w. I'm using only two plants for this experiment indoors with only 500 watts. The main light is 400 HPS and the secondary is a 4 bulb T8 florescent for blue light. In this low-light setting, however, I'm using the same nutrient blend or ratio as with the high watt grow above. I'm only using the base, 3 part Gen Hydroponics table but instead of one gallon, I mix to 3 gallons of Rainwater. (310 ppm counting cal-mag or .5 EC) with every watering.
Attachments
Both
Three Berries
Active member
I've experienced the calcium precipitation when adding too much Epsom salt to my Calcium Acetate solution., making Calcium Sulfate and Mg+. With the Calcium Chloride I use it both as a water/1200 ppm solution to top dress with between waterings. With my nute mix last time I added the CaCl2 first, then the fert mix, then the Epsom.
Just got some MgCl2 though. What do you think of a 5:1 mix of CaCl2 and MgCl2 with the Ca at 1200 ppm? My CaCl2 says 1200 ppm is safe for the plant and I have used it to stop the yellowing at the top successfully it seems, both as foliar spray a couple times a week and 1/4 cup on top of the soil a couple of time total. Sulfur I get from the Langbeinite.
Thank you for sharing TB. a 5:1 mix of CaCl2 and MgCl2 will work fine and do the trick, without adding Epsom salt. What kind of substrate do you use?
I only use 100 ppm of calcium carbonate with 20 ppm of Magnesium carbonate per five gallons of pure water for a soil-less mix. The calcium buffers and raises the pH to a safe range after adding fertilizers. Since I use the minimum amount of fertilizer in pure water, there is no need for using high amounts of cal-mag in my grows. Common Hydroponics will have to use large amounts, but with soil-less mixes, the EC can remain low as long as a complete nutrient sequence is available.
I only use 100 ppm of calcium carbonate with 20 ppm of Magnesium carbonate per five gallons of pure water for a soil-less mix. The calcium buffers and raises the pH to a safe range after adding fertilizers. Since I use the minimum amount of fertilizer in pure water, there is no need for using high amounts of cal-mag in my grows. Common Hydroponics will have to use large amounts, but with soil-less mixes, the EC can remain low as long as a complete nutrient sequence is available.
Three Berries
Active member
Thank you for sharing TB. a 5:1 mix of CaCl2 and MgCl2 will work fine and do the trick, without adding Epsom salt. What kind of substrate do you use?
I only use 100 ppm of calcium carbonate with 20 ppm of Magnesium carbonate per five gallons of pure water for a soil-less mix. The calcium buffers and raises the pH to a safe range after adding fertilizers. Since I use the minimum amount of fertilizer in pure water, there is no need for using high amounts of cal-mag in my grows. Common Hydroponics will have to use large amounts, but with soil-less mixes, the EC can remain low as long as a complete nutrient sequence is available.
I use Happy Frog and add perlite.
Calcium is been my issue. Was on hard well water and closet grow, went to rain water and tents. Getting them to use water and the nutes has been an issue. So....
Calcium delivery and storage in plant leaves: exploring the link with water flow
https://academic.oup.com/jxb/article/62/7/2233/583334?login=false
​​​​​​​Abstract
Calcium (Ca) is a unique macronutrient with diverse but fundamental physiological roles in plant structure and signalling. In the majority of crops the largest proportion of long-distance calcium ion (Ca[SUP]2+[/SUP]) transport through plant tissues has been demonstrated to follow apoplastic pathways, although this paradigm is being increasingly challenged. Similarly, under certain conditions, apoplastic pathways can dominate the proportion of water flow through plants. Therefore, tissue Ca supply is often found to be tightly linked to transpiration. Once Ca is deposited in vacuoles it is rarely redistributed, which results in highly transpiring organs amassing large concentrations of Ca ([Ca]). Meanwhile, the nutritional flow of Ca[SUP]2+[/SUP] must be regulated so it does not interfere with signalling events. However, water flow through plants is itself regulated by Ca[SUP]2+[/SUP], both in the apoplast via effects on cell wall structure and stomatal aperture, and within the symplast via Ca[SUP]2+[/SUP]-mediated gating of aquaporins which regulates flow across membranes. In this review, an integrated model of water and Ca[SUP]2+[/SUP] movement through plants is developed and how this affects [Ca] distribution and water flow within tissues is discussed, with particular emphasis on the role of aquaporins.
Let me understand, you say you are using rainwater with 1200 ppm of calcium before adding fertilizer to Happy Frog with perlite?
Three Berries
Active member
Let me understand, you say you are using rainwater with 1200 ppm of calcium before adding fertilizer to Happy Frog with perlite?
No I used the 1200 ppm as a top dress emergency rescue. I just mixed a nute batch, started with 25 ppm rain, added MgCl2 to 125 ppm, added CaCl2 to 660 ppm 3 tbls. Then added the nutes. Ended up at 1300 ppm and pH5.3 before the adjustment.
When using Fox Farms potting mix I only use rainwater for the first 4 weeks. I don't allow any discharge out the bottom until I start adding fertilizers. However, I don't need any fertilizer at all if I up-pot into a large pot after the first 4 weeks using the same mix. The plants in this grow were starting in Fox Farms Ocean Forest potting mix, from seed. They only got rainwater until they up-potted into 5-gallon pots. After up-potting into their flowering pots, I start giving a low dose feed with every water. I have had no problems.
Attachments
Here are 2 of the plants now, 2 weeks after triggering flowering. These are the same plants as above but after starting a low feed with every watering. I'm using a very low EC, however, it's a complete nutrient mix. These plants are slow to flower because of the Sativa nature that is in them. Total ppm is 360 max or 0.6 EC.
Attachments
Due to a big drought, I have run out of rainwater and had to use RO water for 2 waterings. You would think the 2 low-ppm water would be close to being the same. They're not and the change caused a few problems. The pH of RO dropped too low for the cal-mag to stabilize. The only way I could stabilize the RO was to add 2000 ml of "tap water" to 5 gallons of RO water to bring the pH to a safe level That being said I noticed water spots this morning on a couple of bigger leaves. I got a lot of rain and my buckets are full again.
Attachments
Three Berries
Active member
RO water is very 'active'. When you get RO drinking water that says "minerals added for taste", that means to unpure it enough so it's not so reactive. They add Potassium bicarbonate FWIW.
Pure water when formed is the most corrosive solvent known.
Pure water when formed is the most corrosive solvent known.
Back on fresh clean rainwater again and so easy to stabilize compared to the RO water I just had to use. The best thing about using rain is no acid is needed. When acid is used there's always a by-product left in the substrate. I put 10 ml of cal-mag in 5 gallons of fresh rainwater and let it sit overnight. The next morning the ppm is 90 to 130 before adding fertilizer. The pH is 6.8 almost every time and when I add a small amount of fertilizer, the pH comes back 6.2. and ready for use. That's it, so easy
The hydrogen attaches to the fertilizer molecules and exchanges causing the pH to naturally rise. Plants can't take some nutrients without hydrogen. As the pH rises the nutrient availability becomes greater up the scale in a higher range. The pH is always in flux due to molecule exchange and other conditions. It's not uncommon to find a pH in the 7s one moment and then in the low 6s the next. (pH always changes from molecule exchanges).
The hydrogen attaches to the fertilizer molecules and exchanges causing the pH to naturally rise. Plants can't take some nutrients without hydrogen. As the pH rises the nutrient availability becomes greater up the scale in a higher range. The pH is always in flux due to molecule exchange and other conditions. It's not uncommon to find a pH in the 7s one moment and then in the low 6s the next. (pH always changes from molecule exchanges).
Attachments
Three Berries
Active member
Potential of Hydrogen, pH. It is an indication of how many positively charge H ions there are. H+ ion is basically the active electron that runs the universe.
Show me your plants friend and your hydro method?
Three Berries
Active member
I've had quite a time this winter. But have 4 plants , all in different sizes. Was going to defoliate one as it's about time for flower. It's the one where you can see where the Ca was added and stopped the leaf yellowing twice. Today it's a little yellow at the new tips but the light for the shorter ones is too close to the taller one.
I use Happy frog soil with 20% added perlite this time. And I add langbeinite to the soil for some slow release KSO4 and 2MgSO
You can see a couple of yellow leaves in the one plant. Twice I shocked it with a 1/4 -1/2 cup 1200 ppm CaCl2 and it stopped that yellowing right then.
Very cool TB. Are those 5-gallon containers? What do you have on top of the soil in the large pot friend? I can't make it out. TB, 1200 ppm CaCl2 can raise the pH and lockout some nutrients, and cause the tips to yellow. I always leave my leaves until the flowers are formed because defoliating a plant is very stressful. The leaves store food for later use in flowering and is very important during the fade. You have a good start there, keep me posted so we can get ya some nice flowers off those plants. .
.
I'm surprised how these plants are smelling after just 28 days of flowering. I'm only using 289 to 320 ppm (0.3EC) of fertilizer including cal-mag mixed with rainwater with every watering. Total! The fertigation cycle is on the third day. Using a 3 part General hydroponic flora series base nutrients only, mixed with cal-mag and rainwater. I allow dis-charge every other fertigation. I hold one time and then release a little dis-charge the next. It's so freaking easy it's pathetic. Here's today
Attachments
