Discussion about HPS To LED Conversions

[ButterflyEffect]

Mega can talk with esp's very well over serial or whatever other method of communication you want. I have some smart home systems that work on a mix of arduinos and esps.

Serial would be fine. Doubtful that I'd need them to poll the stats more than a few times a minute. Do you have a specific module you recommend? Code or a sketch? I saw something about AT commands but I'm not sure what they mean by that.

I was thinking of using this module...

 

[Mars Hydro Led]

When I was running 1000 watt HPS I averaged around 1.25 to 1.5 lb per light. When I switched to 700 watt led my weight immediately went up to 2 to 2.25 per light with lots of room in the canopy for improvement. It's not hard to picture squeezing another pound under each light. Also the air conditioning needs went down and I will never have to replace bulbs.

Not exact math but my quick estimate says I can run 4 leds for the cost of running 3 hps and gain approximately 4 lbs. 8 lbs if I get it completely dialed.
Not sure what improvement you could expect switching from vertical hps the way you run them.

Most of commercial growers said they could get 2.0g/W from HPS/HID light. now the latest bar design LED also can reach that number.

 

[Three Berries]

Aah yes, the old imperial to metric game. Fun stuff indeed. I thought an ounce was 28.4? I just round up to 30 anyhow. Easier math that way.

Do you think I would need some type of IR heat source? I do have controlled heaters in the rooms but what if the heat from the drivers is enough? Or from the summer heat seeping through? If there's a piece of the puzzle that's absolutely needed, I'd rather suss it out and get it taken care of beforehand.

How do you control your environment? I learned to build and code these things due to limited funds and plenty of time. They've been rock solid for years now. I'm just now making the upgrade to a much more stable temp/humidity sensor.

This is one of my frankentrollers....

I just put in a switch plate and outlet that are all for control on the other side of the wall from my flower room tent closet.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

I just put in a switch plate and outlet that are all for control on the other side of the wall from my flower room tent closet.

What do you use to control it with?

 

[Three Berries]

What do you use to control it with?

Three outlets all through the power meter for the flower room. One is timed with the lights, one straight from the power meter and another is hot all the time bypassing the power meter. The switch controls a separate whole house fan, I use it when the flower tent fan is low speed or off. The timed outlet is for a humidifier or anything else to cycle with the lights. The other outlet runs a temp controller I just use for display now.

 

[exploziv]

I really recommend you guys to run ssr's instead of those regular relays. The cheap ones can handle up to 2.5 amps but that is more than plenty for a small AC fan or humidifier and can be used to power a contactor or bigger ssr for the control of lights or other high power draw devices like A/C or dehumidifiers. No noise, less power draw and more reliable. Less chance of a welding or meltdown of the relays contacts, too.

As about the shilds I have no ideea could not make them work as needed so I am using ESP chip native boards under Arduino environment.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

Three outlets all through the power meter for the flower room. One is timed with the lights, one straight from the power meter and another is hot all the time bypassing the power meter. The switch controls a separate whole house fan, I use it when the flower tent fan is low speed or off. The timed outlet is for a humidifier or anything else to cycle with the lights. The other outlet runs a temp controller I just use for display now.

Gotcha. Have you considered something like arduino?

 

[ButterflyEffect]

I really recommend you guys to run ssr's instead of those regular relays. The cheap ones can handle up to 2.5 amps but that is more than plenty for a small AC fan or humidifier and can be used to power a contactor or bigger ssr for the control of lights or other high power draw devices like A/C or dehumidifiers. No noise, less power draw and more reliable. Less chance of a welding or meltdown of the relays contacts, too.

As about the shilds I have no ideea could not make them work as needed so I am using ESP chip native boards under Arduino environment.

I have it setup so the mega sends the signal to the small arduino relays which turn on the coil on 25A power relays. I didn't want to take any chances considering the amp draw of the equipment I'm running.

Yeah, I've read that about the shields. I'm reluctant to replace my megas just to get them connected to the network. Maybe somedasy.

 

[Three Berries]

From what I have seen with the humidifier it is a daily contest on how it's going to go. Really depends on the house humidity, and how wet the pots are.

I'll have to say, this is the first year I have worried about humidity. And I don't really see any big benefit. Pretty easy to do in the smaller veg tent but with the flower tent having continuous ventilation it is a game to be played. And lights out time is almost impossible to lower the humidity without adding heat., temps get into the low 60Fs with 60%-70% RH.

I have the AC Infinity Cloudline 67 controllers. But they can only be programmed for temp and humidity control via the fan, no aux outputs.

https://www.acinfinity.com/hvac-hom...ith-scheduling-cycles-dynamic-speed-data-app/

 

[f-e]

Most of commercial growers said they could get 2.0g/W from HPS/HID light. now the latest bar design LED also can reach that number.

That doesn't make LED look very good. However, they lied. The world is full of people that have to tell a slightly bigger lie than the liar before them. 2g/w is the point they started to call each-other out on it.

HID is used at 600w per meter, like an industry standard (1000w over a 4x4 in the states). Seeds are rated as production per meter with that expectation. Good breeder catalogues top out about 650g per meter (1.1g/w) with 500-600 being the usual commercially viable cash cropping strains. Some catalogues are full of 800-1000g claims, and should be ignored. I have done a few, and it's straw.
This situation is evolving. Driven by LEDs making higher yields possible. The catalogue number are probably creeping up. The yields under HID are about 1g/w if you take some care with higher yielding plants. Many home growers are not getting 0.5g/w using boutique strains that can barely manage 0.66g in the right hands.

Gram per Watt isn't a commercial measure. Using it commercially isn't viable. Look in these seed catalogues. It's not there.
I know Mars like many other LED sellers are using Gram/W in sales brochures. It tells a commercial grower, that Mars are in the lighting industry, and can offer no horticultural support.

 

[exploziv]

I have it setup so the mega sends the signal to the small arduino relays which turn on the coil on 25A power relays. I didn't want to take any chances considering the amp draw of the equipment I'm running.

Yeah, I've read that about the shields. I'm reluctant to replace my megas just to get them connected to the network. Maybe somedasy.

You don't need to replace the mega, you can add an internet enabled shield or board to it on serial.

 

[f-e]

How do you control your environment?

I'm having no luck pressing 'quote' tonight.

When I went to school, the top maths class could have an hour a week learning basic. Two years later the main 'house' areas got a PC each, so everyone got to see what one looked like. I took Electronics class though, where logic gates and flow charts made automation possible. There was no Intel 80 and memory chips unless you went on to university. Just discrete components.

I look at every aspect as in individual module. There is no central control as such. It's lots of individual systems. It's amassed to the point where the tank fills and doses everyday, If I wish. My first automation effort was in the early 90s. A solenoid dipped the CF truncheon and a double knock sensor watched the LEDs to see if the levels had dropped. Literally moved to the right LED to watch, with some tack. It was rudimentary, but I'm not sure a commercial option even existed. There was no internet.


When I look at control, it's always in terms of ' if this, do that ' which has never needed a computer. It would look more elegant, but the time it would take to meet my simple demands is greater than my desire to do it. Mostly, because I don't have a clue where to start.

There exists a strange situation, where people of my era will add complexity to designs, to avoid a PLC. While people from a later era add PLC's where they are not needed. Look at our Canadian cousins fridge in the Random thread. It's more intelligent than I am. Yet the most common failure point. Do fridges really need to run code? Even the humble kettle has electronics inside it now, when a bi-metal strip worked fine for decades.

A must go. My mobile needs winding up before it stops again

 

[ButterflyEffect]

You don't need to replace the mega, you can add an internet enabled shield or board to it on serial.

That's what I am struggling with. Any place I 've read up on it they say connecting the shields reliably is not easy for some reason. It has to be wireless.

 

[ButterflyEffect]

I'm having no luck pressing 'quote' tonight.

When I went to school, the top maths class could have an hour a week learning basic. Two years later the main 'house' areas got a PC each, so everyone got to see what one looked like. I took Electronics class though, where logic gates and flow charts made automation possible. There was no Intel 80 and memory chips unless you went on to university. Just discrete components.

I look at every aspect as in individual module. There is no central control as such. It's lots of individual systems. It's amassed to the point where the tank fills and doses everyday, If I wish. My first automation effort was in the early 90s. A solenoid dipped the CF truncheon and a double knock sensor watched the LEDs to see if the levels had dropped. Literally moved to the right LED to watch, with some tack. It was rudimentary, but I'm not sure a commercial option even existed. There was no internet.


When I look at control, it's always in terms of ' if this, do that ' which has never needed a computer. It would look more elegant, but the time it would take to meet my simple demands is greater than my desire to do it. Mostly, because I don't have a clue where to start.

There exists a strange situation, where people of my era will add complexity to designs, to avoid a PLC. While people from a later era add PLC's where they are not needed. Look at our Canadian cousins fridge in the Random thread. It's more intelligent than I am. Yet the most common failure point. Do fridges really need to run code? Even the humble kettle has electronics inside it now, when a bi-metal strip worked fine for decades.

A must go. My mobile needs winding up before it stops again

All this code makes me wish I could afford decent controllers. Greenhouse controllers, I suppose. I'd need 4 of them and that makes it cost prohibitive. Next up was building arduinos that control 25A relays. The coding was the tricky part and for the most part they work pretty well. I'm currently having an issue with the upgraded temp/humidity sensors that I upgraded to, they just randomly stop reading, so that's fun.

If there were anything reliable and cost effective that didn't make me want to drink after trying to code it, I'd sure love to know what it is!

 

[ButterflyEffect]

From what I have seen with the humidifier it is a daily contest on how it's going to go. Really depends on the house humidity, and how wet the pots are.

I'll have to say, this is the first year I have worried about humidity. And I don't really see any big benefit. Pretty easy to do in the smaller veg tent but with the flower tent having continuous ventilation it is a game to be played. And lights out time is almost impossible to lower the humidity without adding heat., temps get into the low 60Fs with 60%-70% RH.

I have the AC Infinity Cloudline 67 controllers. But they can only be programmed for temp and humidity control via the fan, no aux outputs.

https://www.acinfinity.com/hvac-hom...ith-scheduling-cycles-dynamic-speed-data-app/

Thats' why I went with homemade arduino stuff. If I could afford greenhouse controllers, I'd go that way for sure but I'd need 4 of them.

 

[Hammerhead]

My main flower room is mixed CMH/LED. There is a very noticeable color difference between the CMH plants and the LED plant. The CMH plants are super vibrant green plants. The LEDs all have a yellowish color, like they are missing something. I've tried adding cal/mag, no help. I'm still trying to figure out how to fix this without the need to feed the led plants differently. Other than the color they are still up praying just like the CMH plants do.

1370W led
1630w CMH

 

[Three Berries]

Using the flower tent to cure the cut I made today Hanging them in there and have the controller set at 75%. I want to slowly dry it to 70%. The Bluetooth app downloads the log makes a nice graph to monitor it with. You can also set it up on just a timed cycle too. I use that in the veg tent sometimes to cycle on a minter ever half hour or so.

 

[Three Berries]

My main flower room is mixed CMH/LED. There is a very noticeable color difference between the CMH plants and the LED plant. The CMH plants are super vibrant green plants. The LEDs all have a yellowish color, like they are missing something. I've tried adding cal/mag, no help. I'm still trying to figure out how to fix this without the need to feed the led plants differently. Other than the color they are still up praying just like the CMH plants do.

1370W led
1630w CMH

Are the lower leaves yellow like the top?

 

[Hammerhead]

Are the lower leaves yellow like the top?

whole plant or the side of a plant that was facing LED.

 

[exploziv]

That's what I am struggling with. Any place I 've read up on it they say connecting the shields reliably is not easy for some reason. It has to be wireless.

To connect an arduino uno or mega wirelessly you can make it talk to a uno wifi or whatever copy that has an esp chip. Its not a shield. Its 2 way serial communication, which is like a lesson in any tutorial I seen till now. Maybe I am not enaugh code iterate to tell you this in script kiddie vocabulary, but dunno I would expect a guy that played with arduinos to have done things with serial communication already. Its the easiest form of communication and used even for simplest code when talking to the pc.