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Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

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Dave Coulier

Active member
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Disciple, alot of what you wrote assumes I was over-ferting my plants in dixie cups, but that isn't the case. My soil-less mix had moderate levels of nutes, and they received no additional nutes while in the dixie cups. So whatever was causing the loss of turgor in the leaves has nothing to do with too high of salt concentrations in the nute zone. There was also no signs of leaf scorching that too high of EC would cause.

When I did transplant into one gallon bags, the EC levels were actually higher, as the clones should have depleted the available nutes quite readily in their cups. I also water after transplanting, so the new medium contained more moisture than before.

I think part of the problem had to do with insufficient moisture levels in the dixie cups which lead to loss of turgor. The plants really needed to be watered every day in the cups, but more often than not got watered every two days, and sometimes 3 days.

The other part was likely the overlapping roots at the bottom and sides of the cups. I imagine its hard for the roots to get enough oxygen when they are suffocating one another.

Im curious as to why you think plants actually perform better and yield greater in smaller containers. Are you saying wet/dry cycles are good for the plants? If so, Id have to disagree, but Ill await your response to that question before going further on that matter.

I dont see how performance and yield can increase in smaller containers. That just constricts the roots. Why would people use 200 & 300 gallon containers outdoors if smaller pots were the answer to greater yields?
 

ashleynix

New member
I still say f this and go with toping and cutting all of that crap off! its the difference between 50 small budz and 25 huge ones. you decide when it comes down to trimming... lol
 

down2grow

Member
A little history first. This is my second run and started taking off fans leaves in my first run after I read Marlo's thread, which he follows Jrosek directions to remove at day 21 and 45 of flower. I have 4 Chemdawgs and 4 Double Diesels following the rezipe and all girls are in vscrogs. So my issue is, one of the CD's are showing some bananas. Does CD have hermie a tendency? After my first run there where airy unfinished popcorns nugs so this time around I took off all fan leaves and little budsites so I won't run into the airy bud situation. Did I stress the plant by taking off too much growth? Last week they received their first shot of Kool Bloom powder(one shot blast at 4x the recommended dose). Maybe over fert on the CD's? I'm just irritated.. Hopefully somebody can chime in.

I'm a little passed 3 weeks in 12/12. Forgot that part


Thanks
D2G
 
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ShroomDr

CartoonHead
Veteran
basic theme, remove fan leaves. leave growth tips.
=
thème de base, enlever les feuilles du ventilateur. laisser un pourboire de croissance.



éliminer
gallery_622_409_524787.jpg


comprendre?



(According to: Google Translate)
 

k33ftr33z

Member
k33ftr33z,
great thread! I only just happened upon it and 78 pages is a hell of a read to find the answer to my one question, but what happens if you don't defoliate in veg but start in early flower? (besides the obvious, stalling bud production)
I know the plant will try playing catch up with itself focusing on making more fans when it should be making bud
Is there a way to defoliate starting in early flower with no ill results?
my plant is outdoors btw.

No ill effect. My earlier insistence on starting in veg was for several reasons but was overemphasized. I was trying to have those interested take it slow and to view their setup in the whole time frame instead if just a moment. I was also merging my needs into the conversation which may differ from others. It has been well demonstrated by several other posters whose timeline and technique varies from mine that any time is ok. That is also my position. Defoliation in veg is routine and necessary to manage a tableful of rearing-to-go clones when you have a couple of extra weeks built into the veg timeline.
 

k33ftr33z

Member
k33ftr33z and lifeless, thanks for the compliments on the monster!

i just weighed last weeks plant and it only went 15.80. i guess i screwed up somewhere.

so my last five consecutive defoliated plants went 11.96, 12.35, 14.74, 18.38, and 15.80 for a total of 73.23 or an average of 14.65 each.

my last 5 plants before defoliation averaged 10.49, or 52.45 total oz's.

a total difference of 20.78 or 4.16 zips per plant.

i have been doing a series of changes over the last year to drive up yield and this one, defoliating, has made the largest difference.

at this point i'll stop posting pics and weight here as i think i have proven this technique.

thanks k33ftr33z!


editing 8-24-10 to correct faulty figures. in the position you now see 14.74 i had listed an earlier plant weighing 12.45 by mistake. all other figures were also corrected to reflect this. d9

Your contribution has been invaluable. I've been scaling up plant size for the last few years while moving away from SOG. Still unsure what is optimum. Pounders like yours always sounds like a nice goal. Fine work.:tiphat:
 

k33ftr33z

Member
I don't speak french and I was curious about what he said.

Translated

I am a French ptit which would like to know your method and to make known it with the member of the French-speaking forum on which I am registered… translation made by Google n' is not satisfactory and I do not speak l' rather well; English for including/understanding well that about which you speak… if somebody speaks French here they would be very sympathetic of all m' to explain with the pleasure of reading you

I don't speak french either, but while reading his post that is exactly what I was able to grasp. I hope someone is able to translate the key pointers.
 

tequila_sunrise

Active member
k33f thank you for sharing this method. I decided to do this to my SCROG grow so that all the buds were getting a fair shot at growing (if they were above the screen). I have had excellent results with it so far.

In my setup it was pretty overrun and many budsites were not getting the light that they needed. A quick pinch of any obscuring fan leaves cleaned up the problem. I kept this going for a while until a few weeks into flowering. At this point, I kinda went overboard. I pretty much removed any fan leave that was above the chickenwire hard ceiling.

I did get kinda lazy and left the ones in the back alone (they were harder to reach without getting a face full of CFL) They seem to be thriving better than the buds upfront almost. So I know this isn't really controlled but from what I am seeing, there is a point you do not want to cross (removing almost every fan leaf!)

Don't get me wrong all the buds look amazing!

The girl in the back middle, she is in indirect light always and still is the biggest bud that I have in the tent!
picture.php



Here she is in more detail
picture.php



I would say she is a good 3 days of production ahead of the front buds which are under direct light.

:thank you:
 

ShroomDr

CartoonHead
Veteran
They seem to be thriving better...

I would say she is a good 3 days of production ahead of the front buds which are under direct light.

:thank you:

Care to better define 'thriving better'? There certainly is a taller one in the back, but overall budsize looks comparable to the others, at least from the picture.

Also of note, by defoliating its neighbors, you have given it the same benefits.


Observations from my garden, i certainly am not getting bigger top colas, they might even be 10% smaller, but overall bud volume does not seem negatively effected, and overall quality is definitely improved. I dont see a negative effect on the quality of the top colas, but the middle and all but the 2 lowest popcorn bullshit would qualify for my personal stash. I certainly wouldnt say that about untouched indoor plants.

As far as veg, traditionally defined a substantial part of veg is the stretch. I believe defoliating, from this viewpoint certainly slows the plant down. It appears to slow the stretch.
Left untouched once plants have stretched enough, and the fan leaves have grown far enough away from the stem, light begins to hit the junction of the fan leaf and the stem it attaches too. Removing the fan leaves allows the light to hit these spots quicker (personally, when they are real small, i only take 2-3 outta the 5 blades). An entire life cycle experiment with identical clones, is going to be necessary to get an accurate gauge. (Will a 30" plant with 5 growth tips out yield an 18" with 11 growth tips?) (My first trimming always starts with removing the main tip once they have reached 6-8" and have started sprouting new nodes naturally, always leaving the fan leaves the first rd of trimming.)


For the record I grow vertical, 5 gal buckets, sinking bamboo stakes into a coco/perlite mix, and then using more bamboo and zipties to create a vertical trellis. I train the plants to this vertical plain, defoliating, and giving each growth tip its own space. This type of trimming seems tailor made for this setup.
 

k1k1

Member
Bonjour ;)

merci pour vos efforts mais la traduction Google n'est pas cohérente car elle me parle de ventilateur et d'argent pour les serveurs LOL

Je voudrais savoir exactement quelles feuilles je doit
enlever et a quel moment..

Je voudrais aussi savoir quelles feuilles il ne faut surtout pas enlever

merci d'avance mes amis

k1k1
 

tequila_sunrise

Active member
Care to better define 'thriving better'? There certainly is a taller one in the back, but overall budsize looks comparable to the others, at least from the picture.

Also of note, by defoliating its neighbors, you have given it the same benefits.

Sorry, by thriving better, I mean it is producing larger (slightly) buds on this stem than the rest of the plants. If you take a look at the closeup the lower bud is almost as big as the top bud. On the stems of the more aggressively plucked ones, they are not as far developed.

I did a squeeze test and she seems just as dense as the ones in the front of the cab, so it is not all fluff.

But like I said before, this is not a very well controlled experiment, just an observation. One factor that might come into play would be that that stem is the top kola for the plant in the front right potter, thus it has had more time to develop than some of the other plants.

either way, I am happy with the defoliation ;)
 

tequila_sunrise

Active member
Bonjour ;)

merci pour vos efforts mais la traduction Google n'est pas cohérente car elle me parle de ventilateur et d'argent pour les serveurs LOL

Je voudrais savoir exactement quelles feuilles je doit
enlever et a quel moment..

Je voudrais aussi savoir quelles feuilles il ne faut surtout pas enlever

merci d'avance mes amis

k1k1


Ok,

cela va être agitée que je suis trop aide de Google Translate.

Vous voulez commencer à partir du moment où votre installation est encore avachir. Retrait d'un ou deux ventilateurs feuilles de chaque plante tous les jours. Par ma propre expérience, je dirais à enlever les feuilles qui sont fan de la manière des sites de fleurs au premier abord.

Continuez ce grâce à la floraison, enlever les feuilles qui sont fan de la façon de fleurs.

Espérons que cela fait sens

TQ

edit: this is a bad translation lol

Ne retirez pas les fleurs ou bourgeons sites
 

k1k1

Member
Ok,

Vous voulez commencer à partir du moment où votre installation est encore avachir. Retrait d'un ou deux ventilateurs feuilles de chaque plante tous les jours. Par ma propre expérience, je dirais à enlever les feuilles qui sont fan de la manière des sites de fleurs au premier abord.

Continuez ce grâce à la floraison, enlever les feuilles qui sont fan de la façon de fleurs.

Espérons que cela fait sens

TQ

edit: this is a bad translation lol

Ne retirez pas les fleurs ou bourgeons sites

hello ;)

merci TQ...:jump:

tu veux dire qu'il faut que je commence lorsque mes plants sont encore en vegetation/croissance..??

apres je n'ai pas compris ce que tu voulais dire desolé

K1K1
 

Fat J

Member
Ok... defoliated for the last time this round... wanted 2 take more off, but i was takin so much mass off them... i left the lower canopy, but opened up nicely.

Before:

After:


Leaf:


Edit: Should I take more off...? never did this in bloom b4.
 
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tequila_sunrise

Active member
Ok... defoliated for the last time this round... wanted 2 take more off, but i was takin so much mass off them... i left the lower canopy, but opened up nicely.


Edit: Should I take more off...? never did this in bloom b4.

IMO if a budsite is getting shaded, cut the offending fan leaf off
 
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