Weekly is fine when plants are leafing out agressively in the first 3-4 weeks. I could pull a few every day and tend to some training if I'm hanging around the girls. No set schedule, just allow them to leaf out between intensive defoliations till they add 3 or 4 new full sized leaves. By then there will be excessive shading and it's time for another round. A week to 10 days is about right or just steadily as I just described.
Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?
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Weekly is fine when plants are leafing out agressively in the first 3-4 weeks. I could pull a few every day and tend to some training if I'm hanging around the girls. No set schedule, just allow them to leaf out between intensive defoliations till they add 3 or 4 new full sized leaves. By then there will be excessive shading and it's time for another round. A week to 10 days is about right or just steadily as I just described.
Maybe I'm jumping to assumptions, but were the two control groups vegged and sized-up roughly equal when defoliation was begun on that group. That is why a simple side by side can be misleading. Veg time and branch development must be factored in to preparation for bonsai trees.
thanks for the info mate. loving this technique. my plants seem to be loving it. just hope my yeild is up. cheers mate.
I believe it was a self inflicted wound. I trained and trimmed in veg and then transplanted as always as I moved into the flower room. I then defoliated again immediately.
By my observations this was the problem as compared to several plants that I left as a control. Me thinks that I will wait to remove my first fan leaves in flower for at least 3 weeks next time. Plants were in a normal transplant shock then got hit with the leaf removal the same day or so. I believe I was too agressive and I will wait a bit on this run for the plants to normalize and grow a bit before I begin leaf removal.
Anyway, thats my take. My fault. But I think I learned what not to do, which at times is more important then just following instructions.
The crop is not a failure, but is slightly less then normal.
Would you agree with my take on this?
re autoflowers - nobody has any comments about those?
so i have 3 going now (gave 1 away), going to just try with 1 of them, these things are so fast i'm just kind of worried about messing with them as opposed to the others, i see some tiny bud sites beginning though so i suppose it's time to let those bud sites get tons more direct light!
so i have 3 going now (gave 1 away), going to just try with 1 of them, these things are so fast i'm just kind of worried about messing with them as opposed to the others, i see some tiny bud sites beginning though so i suppose it's time to let those bud sites get tons more direct light!
T
treefrog
That might be a bit on the aggressive side, lol.
With plants that young, I'd FIM or top, wait for them to bush out a bit, then defoliate, but that's just me
With plants that young, I'd FIM or top, wait for them to bush out a bit, then defoliate, but that's just me
I dont think this Tec would work very well on Auto's, but im all ears.
There a Bit small for six weeks or is that part of the programme! they look just wrong!
There a Bit small for six weeks or is that part of the programme! they look just wrong!
Y
YosemiteSam
They look wrong until you have tried the technique...then they look beautiful. Look at the branching then imagine that filled with mucho bud.
But yea, first time you go that far is a little traumatic (for the grower anyway). You think oh my god what have i done...a few weeks later and you are thinking why haven't i done this before.
well im led to believe that stretch is the enemy...
and yes they are small. the one pictured is only 14" tall,but again im led to believe that this is what your aiming for.
rather than a plant which is say 3ft tall.
if the plant remains small but full of growth, it will be able to recive much more light overall,than a plant that was 3ft tall...
and yes they are small. the one pictured is only 14" tall,but again im led to believe that this is what your aiming for.
rather than a plant which is say 3ft tall.
if the plant remains small but full of growth, it will be able to recive much more light overall,than a plant that was 3ft tall...
GanjaPharma
Member
some, myself included, have remarked on the appearance of single bladed leaves, and other "deformaties" that resemble at least to me, the same sorts of growth you see on reveg plants (i do alot of those). earlier in the thread, someone mentioned that there might be a hormonal shift resulting from the massive removal of leaves. could it be that the removal of leaves, change the levels and locations of auxins throughout the plant?
if so, then the redistribution of auxins might be responsible for the intense inter-nodal growth that is a result of defoliation. My plants are 5" tall, and each branch is solid nodes the whole way down....1" apart or less. when i did not remove leaves as vigorously, I only saw those tight nodal grouping for the first 8-12" then the spacnig increased dramatically.
there is definitely something going on beyond mere access to more light in the canopy.
oh and earlier someone said that if you are vegging over 3' you are wasting your time....i agree if you have a flat grow, but def not the case with multiple vertical bulbs. i get 3' of tight bud and a foot of smaller popcorn with the combo of defoliation and vertical bare bulb.
if so, then the redistribution of auxins might be responsible for the intense inter-nodal growth that is a result of defoliation. My plants are 5" tall, and each branch is solid nodes the whole way down....1" apart or less. when i did not remove leaves as vigorously, I only saw those tight nodal grouping for the first 8-12" then the spacnig increased dramatically.
there is definitely something going on beyond mere access to more light in the canopy.
oh and earlier someone said that if you are vegging over 3' you are wasting your time....i agree if you have a flat grow, but def not the case with multiple vertical bulbs. i get 3' of tight bud and a foot of smaller popcorn with the combo of defoliation and vertical bare bulb.
stealthnstoned
Member
I just harvested two plants .. one i defoliated at day 14 flower. and one i didnt defoliate at all. I'm not hating on this technique at all or anything but the plant that i defoliated became retarded and never recovered. It will yield maybe 1/4 of teh one i didnt touch. Same mix same strain both clones taken at teh same time, vegged side by side.
i'm not sure why the one i defoliated was super gimped..I didnt defoliate throughout veg tho as suggested.
i'm not sure why the one i defoliated was super gimped..I didnt defoliate throughout veg tho as suggested.
stealthnstoned
Member
Heres pics.
As you can see teh one that i defoliated did branch out more.. but it iddint really ever take off like teh oher one.. I dont think im gonan defoliate any of the stuff i have going in my second run.
buddin_904
Member
strain dependent IMO.....if its a newbie try doing a light defol and see how it reponds....some like a shit load of defol some dont need/like any...is what ive learned in this short time
@ ganjapharma, imo i dont think you can influence the location of the auxins in the plant,....but as they are a plant hormone ( auxins ), that causes the elongation of cells in shoots, and is involved in regulating plant growth then i do believe that they play a massive part in regulating the height of the plant,whilst working overtime in the distribution of hormones,to replace the growth that has been removed..
"when i did not remove leaves as vigorously, I only saw those tight nodal grouping for the first 8-12" then the spacing increased dramatically."
i have experienced exactly the same symptoms on some of my own clones,i put this down to the leaf size, as the leafs got bigger they started to shade the leaf below, which slowed its growth and encouraged the plant to stretch to make room for the shaded leaf....therefore by not removing the leaf as it grew, i didn't create another shoot,or future bud site.
also on the single leaf issue i think one of the reasons is, its just quicker to grow a single leaf and get it out there,than say a 3 spoked one.... that last statement might be complete bullshit.... but i do have a satori thats a few weeks behind and as soon as i de-leaf it, within a day its full of single leafs then around 3 to 4 days later these are replaced with typical growth.
@stealtnstoned. search the thread for post by delta9,i believe he removes his leafs around day 21 and day 45 of 12/12 only,and his trees a truly inspiring. but beware you may end up growing more quality weed than you want, and people may have a go at you for doing this.and tell you your wrong.
"when i did not remove leaves as vigorously, I only saw those tight nodal grouping for the first 8-12" then the spacing increased dramatically."
i have experienced exactly the same symptoms on some of my own clones,i put this down to the leaf size, as the leafs got bigger they started to shade the leaf below, which slowed its growth and encouraged the plant to stretch to make room for the shaded leaf....therefore by not removing the leaf as it grew, i didn't create another shoot,or future bud site.
also on the single leaf issue i think one of the reasons is, its just quicker to grow a single leaf and get it out there,than say a 3 spoked one.... that last statement might be complete bullshit.... but i do have a satori thats a few weeks behind and as soon as i de-leaf it, within a day its full of single leafs then around 3 to 4 days later these are replaced with typical growth.
@stealtnstoned. search the thread for post by delta9,i believe he removes his leafs around day 21 and day 45 of 12/12 only,and his trees a truly inspiring. but beware you may end up growing more quality weed than you want, and people may have a go at you for doing this.and tell you your wrong.
Defoliated the tent a little bit. I didnt exactly follow the procedure of this thread... that i am saving for the side by side test of Madness and BG.
I attempted it this time to just clean up some of the overgrowth in there and expose some budsites. It seemed like a good time because i am in early flower and the stretch just ended.
..if nothing else at least i shouldn't have to water every 2 days now
I attempted it this time to just clean up some of the overgrowth in there and expose some budsites. It seemed like a good time because i am in early flower and the stretch just ended.
..if nothing else at least i shouldn't have to water every 2 days now
S
SCROG McDuck
Defoliated the tent a little bit. I..if nothing else at least i shouldn't have to water every 2 days now
Agreed, the lack of leaves has slowed the uptake of water..
and to tell the truth, it make me very 'ancious'..
I wanna do something more than pluck & train.. (SCROG)
but they 'are' growing OK, kinda
I call them OliveOil, you know, Popeye, plain skiny girl! HA! Inner-beauty!
Starting the third week of bloom, stretch should start any day..
It will be interesting, the mom stretched like crazy.. I'm hopeing this slow it down some.
Im thinking this technique may need to be started in veg with some strains (light feeders).
Im running 14 S1 seeds, putting them in flower once ive got their rooted clone. The first batch of 4 i set in flower all look sad, with thin, dark, clawed leaves (loaded with trics, but all with shitty bud structure). The next six plants (ranging from a week to 20 days behind) all look much better, with no leaf problems. All were defoliated at the same time.
My two strains i run normally look unaffected; other than the added glistening trichomes from the lower budsites. They are 2/3 and 1/2 way through flower, and i just finished another rd of defol. All plants are fed from same recirculating reservoir.
I grow vertical, using zip ties and bamboo to create a trellis. I train everything to the trellis, creating a vertical plain.
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Also i dont think one defoliation early in flower is gonna cut it. The remaining leaves get big enough to block direct light from bud sites in 10-14 days, leaving the budsites shaded for the second half of flower.
You either commit to it, or you dont do it imho.
Im running 14 S1 seeds, putting them in flower once ive got their rooted clone. The first batch of 4 i set in flower all look sad, with thin, dark, clawed leaves (loaded with trics, but all with shitty bud structure). The next six plants (ranging from a week to 20 days behind) all look much better, with no leaf problems. All were defoliated at the same time.
My two strains i run normally look unaffected; other than the added glistening trichomes from the lower budsites. They are 2/3 and 1/2 way through flower, and i just finished another rd of defol. All plants are fed from same recirculating reservoir.
I grow vertical, using zip ties and bamboo to create a trellis. I train everything to the trellis, creating a vertical plain.
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Also i dont think one defoliation early in flower is gonna cut it. The remaining leaves get big enough to block direct light from bud sites in 10-14 days, leaving the budsites shaded for the second half of flower.
You either commit to it, or you dont do it imho.
Like treefrog said, your first cut should have been to the top growth tip, leaving the fan leaves. Removing the tip would make all of those budsites at the base of the fan leaves grow. From my observations, i think the fan leaves feed the growth of the corresponding budsite (and stretching of the stem they are attached to).
Obviously there has to be a balance between growing a mini bonzai and growing a plant large enough to consider flowering.
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