very nice thread. wish there were pics that describe defoliating, beginning in veg.. ill look through the thread some more..
Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?
- Thread starter k33ftr33z
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There are lots. Click on the OP's name, and filter his posts. That'll get rid of all the bullshit.
Young Pumpkin
Member
I've read, I've lurked, I've read, I've lurked, for a while.....I've had the day off and made it thru the first 24 pages. Enuff already, I'm signing on. It took the potential little side benefits to put me over the top. Things like lower humidity, a bit less water use (any saving there helps but thats because of where I actually get it) Better air circulation etc...
Gotta couple that just flipped, might be a good starting point for me. Its a rotating grow so I have something at all ages. And for the first time ever the air is on in my room now with the cooler temps less chance of ugliness being on the bud as Ive had some a time or 2 myself. Less leaves at harvest too. This, to me, is to much of a win-win situation not to try. Just an old dirt grower who switched to DWC. Finally got dialed in. If this helps even more as I believe it will, I may be in 7th heaven. Especially as I look to decrease my #s. Did sogs for way to long in soil-less. Thanx for the thread, wow........................
Gotta couple that just flipped, might be a good starting point for me. Its a rotating grow so I have something at all ages. And for the first time ever the air is on in my room now with the cooler temps less chance of ugliness being on the bud as Ive had some a time or 2 myself. Less leaves at harvest too. This, to me, is to much of a win-win situation not to try. Just an old dirt grower who switched to DWC. Finally got dialed in. If this helps even more as I believe it will, I may be in 7th heaven. Especially as I look to decrease my #s. Did sogs for way to long in soil-less. Thanx for the thread, wow........................
Thanks for starting this thread K33ftr33z.
I grow in vertical scrogs with 400w HPS's.
This is my 3rd run like this and I have been removing fans more and more each run.
I lowered my plant #'s from 15 in the 1st run down to 10 in this 3rd run. I started removing more and more fan leaves each grow. I still think I can remove more in upcoming grows.
Here is a plant that has been "defoliated" since flowering began. Still trying to find the right amount to remove. I've been removing a couple hundred fan leaves from the room every 10 days or so, and still feel like I can remove more in the future.
DAY 1
10 DAYS
28 DAYS
38 DAYS
She is going to get trimmed again in the next few days. This method has definitely been improving my results and I will continue to agressively remove fan leaves until I find the "sweet spot"
My yield has improved already from the last run and there's still 30 days to go.
THE IMPORTANCE OF FAN LEAVES HAS BEEN WAY OVERSTATED!
MARLO
Very nice little setup and positive report. I haven't been taking statistics but I'd say the good reports from experienced growers outnumber the overly-analytical-and-speculative-naysayers by a large margin.
This technique is for growers who have no qualms about touching, moving, manipulating, or experimenting with their plants. If you are continually seeing more potential from your garden and have a little space here and some overcrowding there, it is only natural to train and defoliate to accommodate and fill the space to it's most balanced capacity.
T
treefrog
I have a buddy who I told about this technique. He was already a fan of pulling fans, but never did it a lot. Anyways, he has a few girls outside that he has been defoliating this summer. They are so much bushier it's insane. So, whoever said it isn't useful outside is wrong. I'll try to take some pics and post them here. They are the most beautiful plants we've ever seen outside in these parts.
my mentor filled my head with the rhetoric/grow practices i spew... we always left his plants outside alone and the reason being was that the light from the sun is different from the bulbs... dude's teaching/advice to me has been pretty spot on $$$ thus far but im curious to see what youre talking about & how things finish up...
T
treefrog
Apparently, the shade leaves block out sun too. These plants have stacked nodes from the trunk to the tips of the (many) branches. It's crazy. They look like Christmas trees. I'll get some pics, but it might take a couple weeks, as I'm not there often.
buddin_904
Member
yea id say its more USEFUL inside....but it shouldNT NOT be used outdoors!
ohhh id like to point this out.....defoliation in general is strain dependent.....some strains should be defoliated HEAVILY...and some strains should NOT be defoliated!
more sativa...more defol....more indica....well its really not necessary...IMO!
ohhh id like to point this out.....defoliation in general is strain dependent.....some strains should be defoliated HEAVILY...and some strains should NOT be defoliated!
more sativa...more defol....more indica....well its really not necessary...IMO!
buddin_904
Member
yes....these r based on only months of observations....but ive seen some people on here discouraging defolation or questioning WHY!?!?!?!.....i came to the conclusion these people grew pure indys....
now i dont post much on here, but others may no me. i have followed this thread from the first post (fantastic photo ) and decided to stick around to see how things developed.
one thing that i find a little confusing is the way the thread has developed into 3 sub threads, the 20 and 45 day pluckers( in flower ) and those that just said fuk it and pulled them of any-way, regardless of when they were in flower, i think those that remove leaves at day 20 and day 45 ish will ripen up bud that was previously covered by a leaf and therefore increase in size and get more bud. i believe this may also be the case with those that have just jumped in.... but to me this doesnt seem to represent defoilation on a whole.
the op clearly states that he starts the process ( defoilation )very very early on in the vege cycle,his reasons being,he doesn't want to grow leaf,to minimise stretch,and increase the amount of bud sites, (this is done by leaf removal,which encourages new shoots and branches therefore more bud sites) as soon as the plant gets to big, he bends it and twist it until it fits back under the height of the overall canopy, which then means he can keep his lights at a constant height,and make the plants work for him.
now as i understood it, the op states It is all about having the patience to move back the timeline and add additional veg time into your schedule. Once this additional time has been integrated into the process it becomes standard and does not add to the actual production cycle.
now in my mind if you haven't started this process from the very start of vege, then you really arnt, getting any where near to the results the op claims, yes you may see an improvement in the overall quality off the plant, and have far more smokeable bud (which is all-ways a good thing) from the lower regions,but the new growth and extra bud sites are not there,or at least not there to full potential, all you've done is uncover buds that were blocked.
so at best if you've only applied this method during flower you will only see 50% of this methods potential..as you've missed half the plants cycle.. if that makes sense?
so i decided to give it a go right from the start, currently got 4 k-trains in vege at the moment,there about 6 weeks old and are only 14"tall,and have so much growth it amazes me every time i see them.they will have another 4 weeks vege/or when my current crop is ready.and then they will go into a wilma system.
i might post a few photos when i find somewhere to host them.
BH
hope i dont come across as a cock but i think some people are confusing the op method of defoliation,and all that encompasses, with the removal of fan leaves during the flowering process.which is just that fan leaf removal in flower.
one thing that i find a little confusing is the way the thread has developed into 3 sub threads, the 20 and 45 day pluckers( in flower ) and those that just said fuk it and pulled them of any-way, regardless of when they were in flower, i think those that remove leaves at day 20 and day 45 ish will ripen up bud that was previously covered by a leaf and therefore increase in size and get more bud. i believe this may also be the case with those that have just jumped in.... but to me this doesnt seem to represent defoilation on a whole.
the op clearly states that he starts the process ( defoilation )very very early on in the vege cycle,his reasons being,he doesn't want to grow leaf,to minimise stretch,and increase the amount of bud sites, (this is done by leaf removal,which encourages new shoots and branches therefore more bud sites) as soon as the plant gets to big, he bends it and twist it until it fits back under the height of the overall canopy, which then means he can keep his lights at a constant height,and make the plants work for him.
now as i understood it, the op states It is all about having the patience to move back the timeline and add additional veg time into your schedule. Once this additional time has been integrated into the process it becomes standard and does not add to the actual production cycle.
now in my mind if you haven't started this process from the very start of vege, then you really arnt, getting any where near to the results the op claims, yes you may see an improvement in the overall quality off the plant, and have far more smokeable bud (which is all-ways a good thing) from the lower regions,but the new growth and extra bud sites are not there,or at least not there to full potential, all you've done is uncover buds that were blocked.
so at best if you've only applied this method during flower you will only see 50% of this methods potential..as you've missed half the plants cycle.. if that makes sense?
so i decided to give it a go right from the start, currently got 4 k-trains in vege at the moment,there about 6 weeks old and are only 14"tall,and have so much growth it amazes me every time i see them.they will have another 4 weeks vege/or when my current crop is ready.and then they will go into a wilma system.
i might post a few photos when i find somewhere to host them.
BH
hope i dont come across as a cock but i think some people are confusing the op method of defoliation,and all that encompasses, with the removal of fan leaves during the flowering process.which is just that fan leaf removal in flower.
El Toker
Member
I'm not sure what all these photographs are supposed to demonstrate. I don't see any of the plants having an impressive amount of bud on them. Unless someone is doing a side by side comparison with non-defoliated plants, they really don't add anything at all to the discussion. It just makes a very long thread even harder to read, because we have pages of pointless photos.
i don't know what to call it then, bob. i take a plant at 21 days flower and radically attack it, removing every fan leaf on the plant that has a visible petiole. it is most definitely increasing my yield. weedzilla earlier went 11.96 oz's and one i whacked last week went 12.45. i've got one drying right now that is massive. it will be a record plant for me.
what would you suggest calling what i do? this from merriam-webster's.
Main Entry: de·fo·li·ate
Pronunciation: \-lē-ˌāt\
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Late Latin defoliatus, past participle of defoliare, from Latin de- + folium leaf — more at blade
Date: 1791
: to deprive of leaves especially prematurely
there is a lot more going on here than just the light considerations. people have spoken about "penetration" and the "inverse square rule", percentages of decrease through foliage, and so on.
while i'm sure that all this matters, i believe i'm seeing a hormonal type reaction as well.
hi, el toker! what the photos don't show is the density of the buds. mine are rock hard and covered in trichs.
why don't you do a "side by side" for the folks?
whinning post like this also make it hard to read though this thread
no me neither most of the plants look no better than grows ive done in the past.but most of the pics are of plants done solely in flower.
BUT the op plants are very impressive, bare in mind there in 32 x 32 are are popping 10 oz
consistently,but again it goes back to moving the time line of vege which takes time,patience, and dedication, plus its quite obvious the op knows what he's doing.
but imo ive never vegged a plant for 6 weeks and it be only 14" tall and full of future bud sites, all i can suggest is if you want a comparison fill your boots and do one ,thats what ive done and the results are very impressive.
BUT the op plants are very impressive, bare in mind there in 32 x 32 are are popping 10 oz
consistently,but again it goes back to moving the time line of vege which takes time,patience, and dedication, plus its quite obvious the op knows what he's doing.
but imo ive never vegged a plant for 6 weeks and it be only 14" tall and full of future bud sites, all i can suggest is if you want a comparison fill your boots and do one ,thats what ive done and the results are very impressive.
hey, buddin! my sweet tooth #4 is supposed to be mostly indica. it grows like an indica, looks like an indica, but i do think it is strain dependent to some degree.
my plant is what i call a "crazy bush". never has produced great big center colas but the yield has been excellent.
i'll have some pics and a yield report on the last one in a few days.
Bob-Hope is right, while there are lots of people defoliating in this thread, there are very few that are doing it in the way that k33f outlined.
this is true, i see very few even coming close to what op is doing.
i would like to add that if i were growing horizontal with height limitations i'd be trying it right now. this is the most common situation most indoor growers face.
i'm not proselytizing my vert set up as superior because i know it isn't. my spirit in this venture is to show that defoliation is a valid technique almost any way you grow.
also, i strongly recommend new growers get a few successful crops in before messing with this. solve your other problems first.
i would like to add that if i were growing horizontal with height limitations i'd be trying it right now. this is the most common situation most indoor growers face.
i'm not proselytizing my vert set up as superior because i know it isn't. my spirit in this venture is to show that defoliation is a valid technique almost any way you grow.
also, i strongly recommend new growers get a few successful crops in before messing with this. solve your other problems first.
You definitely picked out some of the key points. Kudos for reading thoroughly and not missing those.
It's ok that some are defoliating at a more set kind of schedule or not doing it in veg. At the beginning of the thread I warned to not jump in and do it if the plants have not been prepared early on. Several posters have their own ideas and it is working well for them. I was trying to keep newbies well forewarned and to focus on consistent results before doing anything like this.
I'm sure most are beginning to try this in veg. There is so much less to lose by experimenting in veg as long as you have the time and space.
Glad to here of your positive results.
In general outdoor plants spaced properly will not crowd nor need much training unless...you want short, squat, incredibly productive plants that don't peek over the fence and may not as recognizable from the air. A huge leafy monster is quite obvious from a helicopter where a defoliated branchy midget may not attract as much attention.
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