Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[Scrogerman]

I have no idea if there would be an advantage to removing a blade or two from some leaves vs. remove the whole leaf or vs not removing the offending leaf. I do know my best yields have always been from bigger cola'd plants.

OK thanks nuff said, its a try it & see how it improves light penetration or fks thing s up sorta idea anyway. personally ive seen a benefit in not removing the whole leaf, but thats just my obs, like i said i aint done enough to say much about, why i wanted your opinion, i sorta value more experienced growers opinions & obs. thanks!

like i said it 'seems' to be a possible tecnique thats best of both worlds, let light in without removing the whole fan-leaf etc, sorta makes sense that it could benefit the plant more, budsite light penetration, compared to total leaf pruning! stripping a plant of its foliage is a mad concept anyway, like the leaf doesnt matter lol
!

best o luck!

 

[Scrogerman]

The result would be to massively increase the exposed surface area of the wound, providing an even bigger entry for a variety of pathogens. As there's a large question mark over the effectiveness of lots of pruning as it is, it seems to be a bad idea to introduce even more trauma and confuse the matter further.

i think you'll find it was me that brought the issue up in the first place man!(somewhere back a few hunderd/or thousand posts)-nobody had said a word about open wounds causing botrytis/grey mold spores to bloom, untill i brought the issue up!.

Anyway, foliars like liquid silicon sprayed on leaves would offer virtually complete protection from wounds to leaves, much more difficult to treat where leaf stems have been removed imo. there are many protective foliars against the pathogens you speak of anyway"! especially if 90% of the leaf prune you intend to do(if any) is done before the first signs of flowers when stresses should be kept to a minimum! im really not into spraying anything on a Bud!

leaf pruning in ScrOG is paramount & part of the serect to a successfull grow & maximum yield, 1gpw is difficult for me to get & is a dissapointing yield in scrOG, 1.1-1.4gpw is where im at all the time! id be devastated if i got anything less. (1x400w HPS) usually, sometimes i run more.

The next time i get the chance im gonna do the 'High yield semi leaf-amputation tecnique thread' lmao!¬ No im not 'but i still think i'll do it completely, just to see what happens, i will repot back of course!

 

[Natagonnaworrie]

Check out the new sub-forum...

Side by Side Grow Experiments
https://www.icmag.com/ic/forumdisplay.php?f=65707

Forums > Grow it > Side by Side Grow Experiments

 

[El Toker]

i think you'll find it was me that brought the issue up in the first place man!(somewhere back a few hunderd/or thousand posts)-nobody had said a word about open wounds causing botrytis/grey mold spores to bloom, untill i brought the issue up!.

You're the person who discovered botyris? That's weird I could have sworn I'd read about it more than a decade ago.

 

[Scrogerman]

You're the person who discovered botyris? That's weird I could have sworn I'd read about it more than a decade ago.

I said i was the first person in this Thread to bring the issue up, thats all man ok!

if you'd of read the thread you would know this, i got no beef with you!

 

[El Toker]

I said i was the first person in this Thread to bring the issue up, thats all man ok!

if you'd of read the thread you would know this, i got no beef with you!

Sorry dude, you're right.

 

[Scrogerman]

Sorry dude, you're right.

Thankyou bro! have a nice day!

 

[TruthOrLie]

Cool, we built a new forum for exactly what this thread needs and now everyone can be civil again. Sweeet\

 

[Beach Bum420]

Great Post RS

Great Post RS

Teacher : Heres a book, study it and take your time, you will ace the test

Student A : Thanks, ill take my time to read, practice and make sure ill ace the test

Student B : Thanks, ill read and practice to try for best result

Student C : This is all wrong, even the teacher!!!

3 months later

Student A : wow i get 100 % thanks teacher!

Student B : wtf how did i fail like this, i read once and practiced once, damn do i need to study more to ace the test or what ?? this is bull shit

Student C: Student A you're bullshiting, you didnt get 100 % ... even when you showed me proof i still dont believe you ...



this is what i get out of this thread lol

cheers guys,

You have made an eloquent analogy of the range of many posters on this thread.
I have doubt that it will have much effect on those who refuse to realize that they are students.
Peace and love to all
Da Beach bum

 

[ShroomDr]

The real question is 2500+ posts into the thread, why is the vocabulary being debated, instead of the images?

FWIW the thread is called Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique? Note the question mark!

 

[VerdantGreen]

i think you'll find it was me that brought the issue up in the first place man!(somewhere back a few hunderd/or thousand posts)-nobody had said a word about open wounds causing botrytis/grey mold spores to bloom, untill i brought the issue up!.

Anyway, foliars like liquid silicon sprayed on leaves would offer virtually complete protection from wounds to leaves, much more difficult to treat where leaf stems have been removed imo. there are many protective foliars against the pathogens you speak of anyway"! especially if 90% of the leaf prune you intend to do(if any) is done before the first signs of flowers when stresses should be kept to a minimum! im really not into spraying anything on a Bud!

leaf pruning in ScrOG is paramount & part of the serect to a successfull grow & maximum yield, 1gpw is difficult for me to get & is a dissapointing yield in scrOG, 1.1-1.4gpw is where im at all the time! id be devastated if i got anything less. (1x400w HPS) usually, sometimes i run more.

The next time i get the chance im gonna do the 'High yield semi leaf-amputation tecnique thread' lmao!¬ No im not 'but i still think i'll do it completely, just to see what happens, i will repot back of course!

yeah i remove leaf blades quite regularly, especially with wide leaf plants - as a way of getting light to some bud-sites yet removing as little leaf material as possible. (so nothing like what is prescribed in this thread)

a word on the grey mold - sure the wound will give place where it can attack, but anyone getting grey mold in their grow should look to their environment and try to improve it.

VG

 

[Scrogerman]

Wise words Verd! makes more sense to me to remove some blades from selected offending leaves so light can penetrate budsites, without completely stripping the plant of its foliage completely, thats just going too far imo!

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

The real question is 2500+ posts into the thread, why is the vocabulary being debated, instead of the images?

FWIW the thread is called Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique? Note the question mark!

FWIW, they only just added the question mark.

 

[ShroomDr]

I was unaware they added the ? after the fact, thanks for the correction.


So lets talk about this post. Forget additional yield, does this plant look harmed from the fan leaf removal?

I Harvested my first Defoliated plants tonight.

I grow zero veg SOG clones in two liter hempys.

Usually I lolly-pop my clones on the first and 2nd week of flowering.

Here are two examples from two different Harvests. One that has been lolly-popped and one that has been defoliated.

Lolly-popped batch:

Defoliated batch:

^^ Stripped of fans on day 21 and 45

IMO, it doesnt look adversely effected. Furthermore, from my own observations (as its real hard to tell from pictures) when I give the lower budsites direct light, they fillout a lot more, and become worthy of my 'personal stash'. Shaded budsites have never been worthy.

Again i'll reiterate, this tech works well for me with certain strains, but the 'bushier' BOG strains i have do not benefit (I think growing tech is also a key part of this equation. I grow Vertical in 5Gal buckets, using bamboo and zip ties to create a flat plain trellis, which is what i train the plants too).

 

[TruthOrLie]

I wouldn't say the plant looks harmed.

But look at the non-defoliated pic (and my signature).

I wish he would have taken a pic of the "non defoliated plant" after taking off the fan leaves blocking the HUGE TOP COLA and hiding the small under nugs.

The defoliated plant is still frosty and delicious looking, but even without removing the leaves from the defoliated plant I can clearly see a MASSIVE cola on the top of the non-defoliated plant.

The cola on the defoliated plant LOOKS half the size of the one that was not defoliated!

 

[ShroomDr]

half the size? thats a bit of a stretch. Your signature is clever but if you are to stick strictly to that logic, no pictures are acceptable, and nothing on this site is good enough to draw any conclusions from. A ridiculously high standard.

Also i would content a bunch of grade A bud is better than 1 Grade A+ cola and a bunch of fluff that doesnt make the grade. (Not drawn from those two pictures, formulated from my own experience.)

 

[TruthOrLie]

half the size? thats a bit of a stretch. Your signature is clever but if you are to stick strictly to that logic, no pictures are acceptable, and nothing on this site is good enough to draw any conclusions from. A ridiculously high standard.

A ridiculously high standard? How?

All that would be needed to follow up those two side by side pics is

1) a picture of the non-defoliated plant defoliated so we could see its bud structure more clearly

2) a weigh in from a digital scale. Total grams from each plant.

How is this ridiculous or a "high" standard. Just one more picture, and one more step. Weigh your material from each plant.

You could EVEN weigh the bud wet, but my guess is it would be more fair to wait and weigh them dry because the defoliated plant will be retaining much more water (can't transpire excess through large fan leaves)

That's my take on it at least. Am I far off base here?




At least we do agree: The defoliated plant has a small top cola. One "appears" to be heavier up top, the other heavier down below.

What we don't know: is there a significant difference between the less on top and more on bottom.

 

[ShroomDr]

A ridiculously high standard? How?

if you are to stick strictly to that logic, no pictures are acceptable, and nothing on this site is good enough to draw any conclusions from.

Dont put words in my mouth, we dont agree on anything until there is confirmation on both sides.

You can't reference your red dots and still try to draw conclusions from pictures. According to you, the latter is incompatible with the former.

I have no photoshop skills, but if you superimpose one image on top of the other (line up the cola bottles), your 'half the size' statement would obviously be dis-proven. Half the size, what a joke. Check your pocket, your bias is showing.

 

[TruthOrLie]

Dude, are you trying to argue that the leaves in the picture of the plant that wasn't defoliated are not hiding huge nugs from our view?

Clearly these pictures make it difficult to judge the difference in size.

After growing a plant without defoliating it, the only way we could visually come _close_ to comparing it to one that was defoliated is by defoliating it as well.

Are you trying to argue against that? The leaves should remain blocking the buds, which we are trying to see if are larger, or smaller than the buds on the plant that had no leaves?


I don't know what king of logic you think im strictly sticking to, but obviously those pictures are hiding a great deal of bud growth underneath the leaves. My bet is the nugs under the leaves are waaaaaay fatter than the nugs in the same position as the plant that grew with no fan leaves.

 

[slowandeasy]

Dont put words in my mouth, we dont agree on anything until i confirm it.

You can't reference your red dots and still try to draw conclusions from pictures. According to you, the latter is incompatible with the former.

Personally I think the defoliated plant looks better and will yield more. Maybe the first plant is a little fatter on top, but the rest of the way down it is thinner. Both plants look good, and until he posts weights...it is speculation. I would be curious to see the Trich color on each one...as I am willing to bet the Defoliated one could be more evenly ripe. Lower budsites that get less light take longer to fully finish in my experience. Either way, they look close in weight. The poster of the pics thinks the Defoliated on yielded more....he would know much better than us....because they are his plants. No way on earth the top pic is 2x as big....better get some glasses if you think that!!