Deficiency or heat stress? good pics!

[OrganicMonkey]

Definitely being driven by the light, but it seems to be an imbalance. Test the run off and I don't think calcium is needed with your magnesium. They seem to just not need as much N at this point. The healthy leafs are a good guide as to what your problems are.

 

[rollmydoodie]

How long has this problem been going on? ~10 days
What STRAIN are you growing? white widow/pure power plant/blue hash
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) seed
What is the age of your plants? 85 days
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now? 65 days
How Tall are the plants? ~4 feet
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? flowering
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) SOG
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 3 gallon pots, 1 plant per pot
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) fox forest ocean farms 4 parts, to 1 part perlite
What Nutrient's are you using? advanced nutrients 3 part + their ferts
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? my input is less than 1000ppm *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
How often are you feeding? once every 7-10 days
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? 1st week of flowering
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect) i mix all my ferts and then add the grow micro bloom at 1-1-1 until ppm is ~1000
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? ~1000
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? 6.4-6.5 last watering
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? ph pen
How often are you watering? 4-5 days
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? 3 days ago feeding every other watering
What size bulb are you using? 1000w hps
What is the distance to the canopy? 18-20 inches
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) 40-50%
What is the canopy temperature? 80
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) 80/70
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) closed environment but a large box fan is constantly blowing across the canopy
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? again closed env so its kept at temps by AC
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? oscillating under the canopy and box fan directly over the canopy sorta angled towards the light
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? moist and i let the pot get light before next watering
Is your water HARD or SOFT? pretty soft ~60-70 ppm
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? tap bubbled for at least 24 hrs
Are you using water from a water softener? nope
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? nope
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? nope
Are plant's infected with pest's? nope

that should do it hopefully this helps to diagnose my problems, thanks guys for the help im still left with no conclusive advice from any of the main boards yet, ive heard nute burn/lockout, phosphorus def, Mg def, light stress, heat stress.....lol. so hopefully the above questions helps out.

 

[OrganicMonkey]

That is definitively nute burn, if your TDS is reading 1700 from some plants. Are you measuring exactly how much water each plant gets? I'd cut down the PPM's, Fox farm is strong stuff and it's a fairly new soil when adding nutrients the entire time in exceeding amounts.

It's good to give a lower than normal feed solution from time to time just to see how they react. Plants don't get deficiencies over a week, it takes several weeks even if they show up over night.

 

[rollmydoodie]

cool thats startin to sound like my problem to me too, maybe a good semi flush over my next 2-3 waterings like 3 gallons of water per 3 gallon pot each watering... i wonder why the plants directly under the light are experiencing the worst yellowing? thanks again organic +rep

 

[OrganicMonkey]

cool thats startin to sound like my problem to me too, maybe a good semi flush over my next 2-3 waterings like 3 gallons of water per 3 gallon pot each watering... i wonder why the plants directly under the light are experiencing the worst yellowing? thanks again organic +rep

I wouldn't use straight water, a mild solution will do. I like to keep a nutrient solution, a basic kelp solution and a ph'd water solution. Best to not be empty when diluting, as that is all a flush does.

 

[rollmydoodie]

hmm may have found my problem. my ph pen was way off and it wouldnt calibrate correctly. so maybe thats my problem, fingers crossed!

 

[Rednick]

Sounds like you have a few problems going on.

But a flush sounds like a good start. Half-strength nutes or just some plain water. I would probably do a first flush, and then half-strength nutes from then on, until things improve.

Fox Farm Ocean Forest has nutes in it to begin with, so I am surprised that you didn't get a little nute burn earlier.

The main thing to remember with soil is elevate your nutes little by little. You wanna try really juicing them, wait, take a few grows of increasing strength gradually and you will chance burning them less.

Good luck.

 

[rollmydoodie]

Sounds like you have a few problems going on.

But a flush sounds like a good start. Half-strength nutes or just some plain water. I would probably do a first flush, and then half-strength nutes from then on, until things improve.

Sounds like sound advice, heres my current hypothesis, i think my faulty ph pen caused me to be way off from the 6.3-6.5 i usually input so this began to lockout Mg...and probably others also, then next watering i tried to correct a non-existent deficiency and burned em. i think the curled tips are a strong indicator of nute burn which is only in the more recent pics, while the original pics from 6 days ago only showed what looked like a Mg lockout/def... it makes sense from what i know but hey whats a noob know? lol

if it is lockout and nute burn wouldn't a semi flush get my soil's ph back on track and get rid of excess salts? or is a full flush necessary to fix lockout?

thanks rednick definitely good advice

 

[richyrich]

Sounds like sound advice, heres my current hypothesis, i think my faulty ph pen caused me to be way off from the 6.3-6.5 i usually input so this began to lockout Mg...and probably others also, then next watering i tried to correct a non-existent deficiency and burned em. i think the curled tips are a strong indicator of nute burn which is only in the more recent pics, while the original pics from 6 days ago only showed what looked like a Mg lockout/def... it makes sense from what i know but hey whats a noob know? lol

if it is lockout and nute burn wouldn't a semi flush get my soil's ph back on track and get rid of excess salts? or is a full flush necessary to fix lockout?

thanks rednick definitely good advice

Here is one of the greatest things I can share with you. ph pens are notorious for going bad and you will not know. I have had them look like they were good to go with calibrating them and all. Buttttt....... when I had a clusterfuck of problems like you I finally said it had to be the ph. I used my dye kit that never lies and my ph pen was way off even though it calibrated fine. The tip is always check your ph pen is working okay by testing it against the ph dye tester once a week. Also, get yourself a light diffusor for that 1000 watter, trust me on that.

 

[Rednick]

Just like Richy Rich said.
Never give up Dye! If the color of your solution supports that.
It is a check against your expensive, to this precision, device.

 

[rollmydoodie]

Alrighty guys, today I watered and hopefully this will give us an idea of whats goin on.
My input water was a mild solution of advanced nutrients ferts and my input TDS measured at 500 ppm and my input ph was 6.6. My runoff measured in at 1700+ and ph of 6.4-6.5... Is it safe to assume that I've got nute burn? and can nute burn be responsible for deficiencies? After checkin my runoff and seeing it that high I semi flushed each 3 gallon pot with a gallon of water only with h202 added to help prevent oxygen deprevation. After semi-flushing my runoff's ph still measured at about 6.5 but my ppm was dropped to 900-1100 depending on which pot. I feel like I'm on the track to recovery but I would like to hear what the experts have to say given the new information? and do you guys think I should begin adding nute/ferts again next watering or do another straight watering?

Thanks guys for all your input and my ladies appreciate it too!

 

[richyrich]

Keep on fertigating with a low nute solution of 300ppm and ph of 6.4 until the runoff ppms drop then you can go back to regular feed. Flush as much as you can as above only once every few days and you have to allow the roots to dry or you will end up killing off your roots next.

 

[nothingbut]

Hi all,

Well I've done the majority of my research here for my first grow and would like to thank all that contribute!

I started with 8 hybrids (4 white widow, and 4 pure power plant) and 1 indica (blue hash) and they've done extremely well but I'm noticing what looks like a deficiency maybe...

They are 80 days from seed and have been flowering for 28 days now.

Now for their environment:
homemade 3' x 4' area covered with panda film,
fox forest ocean farms soil,
3 gallon grow bags,
1k hps light at about 24 inches from canopy,
co2-1500ppm,
plenty of ventilation,
the canopy level temp is a constant 75f,
humidity is constant 45-50%,
im using nearly all of advanced nutrients 'boosters' along with their 3 part nutrient base, and for watering I am alternating between plain water, and nuted water (~1000ppm @6.3 ph)

I don't see how I could have heat stress with the canopy temps so low but maybe its just too much light for that small of an area... 150000 lumens / 12 sq ft = 12500 lumens per sq ft.

Anyone know how I can fix this? all help is much appreciated!

RMD to test for heat do the old hand under the light for a minute trick. But that's not heat stress as others have pointed out. In fact your buds would start scorching if it was. Also when using soil and you have a nute problem it's not just a matter of adding more to correct it. Whenever you flush soil it's like starting over so you want to make sure to do that before making your adjustments. Also you want to take readings where your roots are and you can do that by getting a big plastic syringe and adding some air line to it. Soak your medium until water just starts coming out the bottom and getting some 6 samples from the bottom 2/3rds of your soil or medium. Collecting in a container and then taking a reading. Salts build up so you want to flush once a week.

 

[nothingbut]

Alrighty guys, today I watered and hopefully this will give us an idea of whats goin on.
My input water was a mild solution of advanced nutrients ferts and my input TDS measured at 500 ppm and my input ph was 6.6. My runoff measured in at 1700+ and ph of 6.4-6.5... Is it safe to assume that I've got nute burn? and can nute burn be responsible for deficiencies? After checkin my runoff and seeing it that high I semi flushed each 3 gallon pot with a gallon of water only with h202 added to help prevent oxygen deprevation. After semi-flushing my runoff's ph still measured at about 6.5 but my ppm was dropped to 900-1100 depending on which pot. I feel like I'm on the track to recovery but I would like to hear what the experts have to say given the new information? and do you guys think I should begin adding nute/ferts again next watering or do another straight watering?

Thanks guys for all your input and my ladies appreciate it too!

OK, you need to flush with straight water to get these numbers down. No nutes, no nothing. MJ loves h202 but some don't like it in soil because it kills the good micros but what you could do is alternate with H202 and mollasess. The thing is you giving them so much crap now as it is. Whatever nutes you use it's best to check with the manufacturer to see what they reccommend as far as ph and ppm's according to THE MEDIUM YOUR USING. For instance Advance Nutrients recommends using Sunshine #4 soil mix. That's important because they are going to be different for each one.

 

[nothingbut]

Keep on fertigating with a low nute solution of 300ppm and ph of 6.4 until the runoff ppms drop then you can go back to regular feed. Flush as much as you can as above only once every few days and you have to allow the roots to dry or you will end up killing off your roots next.

Since they build up , I'm going to have to disagree on flushing with the nutes in trying to lower the ppm's! And taking readings after they have been filtered by all the soil doesn't seem to accurate!

 

[rollmydoodie]

yeh imma probably do another semi flush before adding any nutrients, so do you guys think my semi flush is going to be effective

 

[Rednick]

Do yourself a favor...

And read these thoroughly, bookmark them even...I do and I have been growing for over 4 years.
Stitch's guide to sick plants.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688

Kodiak's guide to growing weed.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=112662

You can do what Richy Rich said, but if you have gone too far you may just want to start flushing with pure water, until things turn around.

If you have a one gallon pot, you need to put 2 gallons of water through it for a flush.

Don't forget to keep uploading pictures, so we can see how they are progressing.

 

[RetroGrow]

yeh imma probably do another semi flush before adding any nutrients, so do you guys think my semi flush is going to be effective

Forget "semi-flush". Flush those bastards completely with 2-3 gallons RO water per gallon of soil. Get runoff PPMs way down, and give them a break for a few days and then start over with the properly ph'd nutes. You're in good soil so probably don't need too many nutes.
Anyway, they don't look that bad to begin with. They will bounce back.

My 2 cents....

 

[richyrich]

I guess my suggestion of flushing at 300ppm is a "semi flush." It was not meant to be a "semi flush." You keep on flushing at that ppm until the desired run off ppm is achieved.

You could go straight RO and clearex, etc. if you want. My suggestion will shock your plants less. Your nute burn is not that bad IMO right now to warrant a full on leaching with RO water. Either way will work--your choice.

 

[Sensibowl]

Nute burn is tricky, ain't it?

Yes, using nutes half strength is always a good idea when you're starting out. It's always easier to add in more nutes later than it is to recover from a burn.

I mean, you will definitely recover from the burn, but it's still a crappy lesson to learn. Heck, I've still done it a few times, more than I'd like to admit, given the time I've been growing.

Always a good question to bring to the boards tho.

good luck man!