Deficiency: Ca? K? Please take a look!

[FinestKind]

SOIL:


How long has this problem been going on? A few days
What STRAIN are you growing? Dutchgrown's LUI 13
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) Clone
What is the age of your plants? 6 weeks
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now? 4 weeks
Were they in the same mixture when they were seedlings/smaller plant? If not, what mixture were they in before? Same mix
How Tall are the plants? ~1 1/2 to 2 feet
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? Flower
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) N/A
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 3 Gallon Pots (1 per pot)
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) Pro-Mix BX with 2TB Dolomite per gallon added, and Mycorrhizae.
What brand Nutrient's are you using? Earth Juice complete line, plus Liquid Karma and Hygrozyme
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* Varies depending on EC... with this plant it has been weeks...
How often are you feeding? Not very.
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? ~1.1
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? ~6.0-6.4
How often are you testing pH/ppm/EC/TDS? Often
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? pH pen
How often are you watering? Once a week.
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? Last feeding was 4 weeks ago (!)
What size bulb are you using? 1k on a mover
How old is your bulbs? Just over a year.
What is the distance to the canopy? ~1 to 2 feet, closer to 2.
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) 50 to 60%
What is the canopy temperature?
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) Day 83, Night 68.
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) Air cooled lights on a 6" In-Line, sealed room, oscillating fans
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? In-line is running when lights are on, oscillating fans are on 24/7.
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? Just above the tops.
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? Yes, moist I would say. I let them dry out quite a bit, but there are always a few that are still moist when it comes time to water.
Is your water HARD or SOFT? Soft
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? Well water.
If using tap water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS of the water right out of the tap?(Only if you have a tds pen) 35 to 40 ppm
If using RO,Distilled,mineral water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS without any additives?(Only if you have a tds pen)
Are you using water from a water softener? No
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? No
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? Yes, Avid for mites, 4 weeks ago. Haven't seen any since.
Are plant's infected with pest's? A few fungus gnats, but not many at all.


I do things a little bit differently, which is why it has been 4 weeks since my last feed... I transplant from 1/2 gallon containers (the deep 5.5" squares) to 3 gallon containers at the flip to 12/12... I have been over-feeding for years now because of this way of doing things. I just checked the EC of the runoff from the 3 plants that are showing signs of this, and they were 1.9, 2.5, and 3.0... quite a range. I haven't used a Cal/Mag product, however I did add 2 TB of Dolomite lime per gallon of soil.

Thanks guys

FK

 

[FinestKind]

Anyone help a brother out? Thanks.

FK

 

[DirtDoctor]

EC... 1.9, 2.5, and 3.0...

Wow, an EC of 3.0 and you haven't fed in 4 weeks? Especially considering that it's Earth Juice, that's really high.

Also, Pro-mix already has Lime added. Your runoff pH is obviously OK, but is there some reason you feel the need to add more? More is not always better.

 

[Wingnutt]

I'd definitely start with a good flush. Those EC numbers are way to high. Your leaves look like they have nutrient burn. Even though you haven't fed them in a while, your soil has probably been locked up for some time. It might take a couple days of flushing, especially for the 3.0 plant.

You could ad a cleaning solution like Clearex to help clean the soil faster. Revive from AN will also help the plant recover faster. I recommend some enzymes as well if you haven't added those to the mix. Good luck.

 

[FinestKind]

Thanks for the responses...

@DirtDoctor: I know, crazy right? Very strange... it's been happening with my other plants as well- which are 9 days older and look like complete shit- I'm just trying to do right by the 6 remaining ones that are younger. The reason I add the lime is because... I dunno, really. Because other people do, I guess- and because it keeps my pH in range?

These actually got a pretty heavy dose (2TB per gallon) of EJ Grow 4 weeks ago, along with "normal" amounts of all the other nutes, and like I said, the EC numbers haven't come down since. (BlueLab truncheon, by the way.)

@Wingnutt: I hope nutes aren't locked out, they only got fed once! I've always been lead to understand that you can't flush organic nutrients out of soil (or maybe it's that there is no need to)... but they also say that an EC meter is useless in organics too, so who's to say?

I'll try giving a flush... but is that all you guys see in the leaves is nute burn?

Thanks...

FK

 

[Midnight]

I'd be seriously inspecting the dirt for bugs. Also, use a jewelers loupe or something similar and look very closely at the leaves of the plant, especially the underside. I looked at someones plants yesterday that looked exactly like yours and they had root aphids.

 

[Scrogerman]

Salts/Toxidity?, flush/leach man, imo! Leaving the EC way up ther cant ber doing much good, im surprised there not worse. they actually dont look that bad considering! locking K out?, possibly P Toxidity looks similar i think, still related to salts tox imo!!

Overferting is not good for MJ at all, id change that habbit, its gotta be negative on them. hence the damage imo, but theres quite a difference between 1.9 & 3.0, 1.9 is prolly nearer the mark!

 

[headband 707]

one of the "P"'s deficiencies you can look her up and see which one LOL.. peace out Headband707

 

[FinestKind]

Okay, here's the weirdest part about the high EC numbers... I've only fed ONCE at transplant from the 1/2 gallon to 3 gallon containers, with an EC .6 solution... so where is the extra 2.4 coming from, all these weeks later?? I'm about to chuck that goddamn EC meter out the window, it's caused me nothing but confusion since I got it, has cleared nothing up and the results never make any sense.

 

[darrmann]

With the way you switch pots right when you switch to flower isnt good. At that point they have to do quite alot of work to regrow roots to fit the pot and not grow up. You then fed them and most likely werent eating what you fed them, again more energy intro growing roots. Do a good flush and start out with 1/4 strength on nutes. Pro mix I believe has plenty of nutrients also so you need to be careful with first feedings. Also fungus knat larvae eat roots, which could be locking you out.

 

[maxmurder]

when in doubt flush em out i personally would use clearex and flush the shit out of em then when they lighten up i would give em a mild dose of bloom, catalyst and some kind of calmag. not sure how ec works with organics and dirt but don't throw that pen out- those are nice, never have to calibrate or wonder which conversion factor. just my 2 cents..

 

[Wingnutt]

Definitely flush. The thing is, your leaves could look like a P or K deficiency, but you have to ask yourself where the def is coming from: a lack of "x" or too much of "y". Deficiencies can often be cause by too much of something else. If you assume its the former and start adding more of x, you could be making it worse.

That is why most people say to flush, so you can kind of start over and eliminate a toxicity as a problem.

One other thing that it could be... your well water. A lot of wells are polluted these days - pesticides and industrial chemicals are leaking into aquifers all over the county. If I were you, I would water with filtered water on half your plants and see if that makes a difference. I used to go fill up 5 gal bottles - like 5 at a time - at those water machines in front of grocery stores and water exclusively with that. It was a pain in the ass, but it saved my organic plants. Or, spend a couple hundred on a filter... Water quality is where it all starts - like the foundation of a house.

 

[FinestKind]

Okay, I've decided to flush one of the three (the one that was reading at 3.0, obviously)... the question is: now what? Wait a week and give a light feeding? Or feed right away? There's obviously nothing (or at least, not much) left in the soil for it to feed off of... thoughts? Thanks everyone who has responded so far!

FK

 

[Wingnutt]

As you stated earlier, you can't really wash the nutrients out of organic soil. What you are trying to do is wash the salts that have built up due to an over-abundance of nutrients. As long as you flush the plants slowly, the original organic soil amendments you added will still be there to some degree, but time will be required for them to be broken down and made available to your plant's roots. My guess is your soil mix was pretty hot already so a flush may bring it right where you want it. Give your plant a few days to recover.

I wouldn't add more nutrients yet. I would, however, add some mycorrhizal fungus (Great White or similar) to the soil as well as some enzymes such as Hygrozyme (which is OMRI listed). There are cheaper alternatives to Hygrozyme, but if you want a guaranteed organic product, maybe its worth the money for you.

The mycorrhizae will build a web of fine hairs around your roots, exponentially increasing their surface area and therefore increasing the roots' ability to uptake nutrients. The enzymes, along with a little blackstrap molasses, help feed the fungi which in turn help feed your plant.

 

[DirtDoctor]

Pro mix I believe has plenty of nutrients

*Edit* - My Bad! It does have some nutes.

you can't really wash the nutrients out of organic soil...the original organic soil amendments you added will still be there

It's not "organic soil" and the OP didn't add any organic soil amendments other than lime.


Anyways, Finest, are you sure you mixed up your nutrients really well before you added them? Earth Juice is super-thick, so if it wasn't mixed really well, your EC measurement before feeding might have been off... and the plants that got the sludgiest bottom part of the mix might have been well over-fed.

 

[Scrogerman]

Lol, Pro-Mix has ZERO nutes. (except a little bit of lime)



It's not "organic soil" and the OP didn't add any organic soil amendments other than lime.

Seriously people, read the post before responding.


Anyways, Finest, are you sure you mixed up your nutrients really well before you added them? Earth Juice is super-thick, so if it wasn't mixed really well, your EC measurement before feeding might have been off... and the plants that got the sludgiest bottom part of the mix might have been well over-fed.

Sorry Dude your way-out! Promix BX with Myco contains Macro's & Micros, ie- Nutrients! Check it out DirtDoctor !
The OP should really have checked this before using the stuff, i cant see why you wouldnt do that. It already contains Dol-Lime so dont go adding more! here ya go:

http://www.premierhort.com/eProMix/Horticulture/TechnicalData/pdf/TD2-PRO-MIXBX-MYCORISE.pdf

Thats where your numbers come from bro!

Looks like your running the wrong PH too, 5.2-6.2 as it comes. She's already buffered, so feed your nutes as recommended. After youve flushed, dont leave it without any or low EC, you'll get more problems! soiless media id run 5.5-5.8(?) myself but you need to check it out!

Flush/ or more precisely Leach, Adjust & Apply, as has been sugested!
Good luck!

 

[Scrogerman]

I sugest you read the earth juice website/instructions too, follow the second section chart for pot culture with soiless.

http://www.earthjuice.com/hydroorg/index.html

Ive never used EJ, but ive wated to for ages, looks like good stuff. Once you get it dialled you'll be rewarded for your time. Im sure EJ users could help you out more than me(is there an EJ Section/Forum?), especially ones using Promix bx with Myco like you, seems like a nice package youve got yourself there! Should be money well spent!

Recommended PH 5.2-5.8.

G'Luck!

 

[maxibiogreen]

.

.

First things first a good flush will be needed here, when I talk about flush I mean flushing really properly your plants.
Once this is done give them a few days to go to complete drying on all plants
At this time it ll be needed to have more pics coming to establish a real statement of your plants health and see what would be advisable to do.


PS it probably would be better to give them water more often in smaller quantities and allow your plants to dry a little bit between each watering.
If your plants are still moist in soil they definitly do not need water. too much water create a non good root environment for your plants they can suffocate and good bacterias won t develop correclty in such environment and on the other side some anaerobie bacteria (some wich wont be harmful for your plants directly but for your soil wich finally won t help your plants) will love it.

 

[FinestKind]

Oops

 

[FinestKind]

Sorry Dude your way-out! Promix BX with Myco contains Macro's & Micros, ie- Nutrients! Check it out DirtDoctor !
The OP should really have checked this before using the stuff, i cant see why you wouldnt do that. It already contains Dol-Lime so dont go adding more! here ya go:

http://www.premierhort.com/eProMix/Horticulture/TechnicalData/pdf/TD2-PRO-MIXBX-MYCORISE.pdf

Thats where your numbers come from bro!

Looks like your running the wrong PH too, 5.2-6.2 as it comes. She's already buffered, so feed your nutes as recommended. After youve flushed, dont leave it without any or low EC, you'll get more problems! soiless media id run 5.5-5.8(?) myself but you need to check it out!

Flush/ or more precisely Leach, Adjust & Apply, as has been sugested!
Good luck!

I guess first I need to say that I have read quite a bit about Pro-Mix, especially on this site. I hadn't seen that .pdf you posted with the precise nutrient content of the Pro-Mix BX, but I was aware that it does have a nutrient pack included.... there are plenty of organic growers who use it... it is in fact included in BurnOne's "Organics for Beginners" thread here. You'll notice that he recommends adding 2TB of Dolomite per gallon to his mixes as well, which is why I had done so... he is, after all, the moderator of the organics forum.

As far as pH, everyone I have discussed it with on this site (especially in the Earth Juice forum, which I actively participate in) says that 6.0 to 6.3 is a good target for soil-less, with 6.3 being right on. In fact, the "hardcore" organic growers say that pH doesn't matter at all in organic gardening. All that being said, I am willing to try just about anything at this point.

I sugest you read the earth juice website/instructions too, follow the second section chart for pot culture with soiless.

http://www.earthjuice.com/hydroorg/index.html

Ive never used EJ, but ive wated to for ages, looks like good stuff. Once you get it dialled you'll be rewarded for your time. Im sure EJ users could help you out more than me(is there an EJ Section/Forum?), especially ones using Promix bx with Myco like you, seems like a nice package youve got yourself there! Should be money well spent!

Recommended PH 5.2-5.8.

G'Luck!

I think the pH recommendations of 5.2 to 5.8 are for hydro, which is of course lower than those recommended for either soil-less or soil. I could be wrong. The most interesting thing I saw on that link you gave was that the grow and bloom contain Ca, which is not listed on the label, for some reason. Very good to know.