Darth Fader's 1st Grow - DR100L/400watt CMH/wick/coco

[Darth Fader]

Day 9 flower - Feb 8
- nada

Day 10 flower - Feb 9
- pruned (3rd time)
-CJ got 0.4 gal nute mix @ 5.8pH
-Wetted top soil from the res on other 2 w/ turkey baster

Took a bunch of (29) kewl pics here:

trying to embed a slideshow here, but it's not working out.

Fellas, I could see only the mildest bit of yellow tips. All of these plants are a nice matte green and appear very happy. Not sure if I want to try to dose it w/ KoolBloom yet. I'm leaning that way.

 

[Darth Fader]

So I picked up a couple things, one of them being a cheap TDS meter. My tap water measures 372. Is there any way to break it out into specific levels by component; Ca, Mg, etc?

 

[Carl Carlson]

So I picked up a couple things, one of them being a cheap TDS meter. My tap water measures 372. Is there any way to break it out into specific levels by component; Ca, Mg, etc?

Not with more extensive testing.

 

[delta9nxs]

carl is right, without a pro lab test you are just not going to know. i have a lab that you can send a sample to but it's around 125 bucks. for that kind of money you can buy a cheap ro filter. 372 is way too high to grow in. you could try hardwater micro but i feel it is a less than perfect solution. i have 360 ppm tap water here and had to resort to ro water.

your water is probably mostly Ca and Mg in carbonate forms, which are difficult for your plants to uptake. it has to do with molecule size. the carbonate forms have large molecules and the root hairs have trouble passing them. also they can block the pathways making them unavailable for "good" Ca and Mg to pass through.

i strongly recommend a ro filter.

www.marinedepot.com will get you a 35 gpd filter designed for aquariums for 99 bucks.

my understanding was that L.A. city water was quite good, but you must live elsewhere.

my "liquid rock tap water" is taken from a surface river in heavy limestone country and can vary from around 225 ppm up to 400 ppm depending on the amount of rainfall. you never know what you are going to get from day to day.

 

[Darth Fader]

Well shit. I live in an apartment & would like to stay low key. And I'm not a plumber. Would a Brita pitcher work? D9, at the link you provided, they have a filter that attaches to a faucet (link). Would this be sufficient. I don't mind spending the $100, but I don't want to touch my plumbing. One more Q. Not trying to be a smartass but If 327 is way to high to grow in, ... my plants seem to be healthy in spite of this, and even w/ added CalMag. I don't get it. Maybe the coco is just that good of a buffer for hard water?

 

[thegonz1]

Thanks...

Thanks...

Quick thanks to Fader and Delta...

I drained my system and changed the rez. I'm going to try drain to waste until I'm a little more comfortable. I let the water sit overnight to get rid of the chlorine. I mixed the mod Lucas perfectly. I tweaked on the ph until it was at about 5 (still using drops) because I suspect that the ph in the medium was high. After flushing thoroughly with plain water I waited a little and gave them a feeding. The ph of the runoff was about 6.5.

I have already noticed a positive change! The plants are (slowly) getting darker and are starting to fill in again.

 

[delta9nxs]

Hey, darth. You are right about your plants looking good anyway. No two tap waters will be the same. Apparently yours is not too bad at that ppm. I couldn't grow in mine. Big Tokes sticky on water chemistry is excellent at explaining why all waters are different. It's very hard to make blanket statements that will be correct in all scenarios.

You are apparently mostly getting away with it now with your nute program. But it is probably not ideal from a chemistry standpoint. If you change any components of your program watch your plants closely for a few days.

If you don't want to get involved with a ro filter you might consider the hard water micro. Gh recommends it's use with any water over 200 ppm. I don't know what their conversion is. Probably .7.

the brita type filters won't help you grow as they don't remove dissolved solids. They do remove gasses like chlorine, however.

As the plants grow through different stages their nutrient needs change and they uptake different ratios upon demand. This could cause problems down the road.

Most people growing in water reading as high as yours have trouble at some point. I've seen 200 ppm water kill plants. It all depends on exactly what's in it. Sometimes you can get a detailed report from the water company. They get all touchy about it. They act like you are trying to get info to use against them. Makes you wonder what they're hiding.

It may be that your water is not full of carbonate forms of Ca and Mg. It may just have the “good” forms that your plants can easily use. In which case you may not need as much cal/mag. Overdosing Ca can cause a Mg problem. Again, maybe try some hardwater micro. I just looked at my bottle of hardwater micro and it basically just drops the Ca from 5% to 1%.

it's obvious that you don't need much of a correction as your plants look good, but these slight problems can add up to loss of yield by the end of the grow. Magnesium is directly involved in photosynthesis and all cellular growth.

If you have a washer/dryer or connections for them I can show how to hook a ro filter up fast and easy. The aquarium type ro filters don't have the volume tanks and faucets that the under sink drinking water types have. I have one of each and they both make 4-6 ppm water.

Later, d9

 

[nnep]

No need to buy filters or any sort of specialty water. Tap water works fine, the trick is to let it sit so the contaminants evaporate.

Honestly you could feed a plant pure untreated tap water and as long as you ph balance it chances are it's really not going to cause problems with your average tap water.

 

[Darth Fader]

Quick thanks to Fader and Delta...

I drained my system and changed the rez. I'm going to try drain to waste until I'm a little more comfortable. I let the water sit overnight to get rid of the chlorine. I mixed the mod Lucas perfectly. I tweaked on the ph until it was at about 5 (still using drops) because I suspect that the ph in the medium was high. After flushing thoroughly with plain water I waited a little and gave them a feeding. The ph of the runoff was about 6.5.

I have already noticed a positive change! The plants are (slowly) getting darker and are starting to fill in again.

Nice! Are you using the Roots Organics coco mix? It really pulls up the pH. I've been feeding a lot at 5.5-5.6 lately. Seems to work well.

 

[delta9nxs]

* #48
nnep
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Comin up from the underground
Posts: 577

“No need to buy filters or any sort of specialty water. Tap water works fine, the trick is to let it sit so the contaminants evaporate.

Honestly you could feed a plant pure untreated tap water and as long as you ph balance it chances are it's really not going to cause problems with your average tap water.”
__
dear nnep, not trying to attack you or anything like that, all opinions are respected, but because your tap water works fine for you does not mean others tap water will work fine for them. All water sources will be different. That's why every plant nursery and farmer has an analysis done and adjusts their nutrient program accordingly.

Letting the water sit will not pass off dissolved solids, only gasses. So any elements such as Ca and Mg in your water will still be there after “airing". Only more concentrated.

Wonder why gh recommends hard water micro with ppm's over 200?

btw, what is the tds of your tap water? Do you live in an area of the country that has heavy limestone deposits like I do?

Gh defines average tap water as under 150 ppm. Darth's is way higher than that. In another location just 3 miles away my tap water was 120 ppm and I never had a problem with it.

All of this is really about doing the best job you can rather than just getting away with it. Just another aspect of getting your yield up.

Respectfully, d9

 

[thegonz1]

Mine are in Canna

Mine are in Canna

Nice! Are you using the Roots Organics coco mix? It really pulls up the pH. I've been feeding a lot at 5.5-5.6 lately. Seems to work well.

Mine are in Canna Coco. I'm not sure if it was the coco that pulled it up though. I was probably setting the ph too high. Now I'm setting it to more orange/yellow than green/yellow (with the drops).

 

[Darth Fader]

Day 11 flower - Feb 10
- got a TDM meter
- tap water measures@ 372ppm
- Dropped the Cal Mag
- 6/9 GH + 5ml Hygrozyme
- 5.5 pH
- 1 gal total

Day 12 flower - Feb 11
- nada, topsoil (coco) nice & moist
- switched out vertical for reflector.

-(4) pics here

Day 13 flower - Feb 12
- no feeding, topsoil (coco) nice & moist
- noticed leaf discoloration (pics attached)
- FYI: my tap water is at 372 ppm. Have dropped the CalMag.
- Can I/Should I ... switch to GH micro-hard water while staying with the 6/9 recipe w/o messing it up?

- here's (10) more pics

 

[delta9nxs]

hey, darth, you dropped the calmag on the 11th, today is the 14th, have you noticed any improvement?

if not or it has gotten worse you might try the hardwater next. still at 6/9 for a few days just for effect,

im using 750 ppm flora nova bloom , 100 ppm calcium nitrate and
50 ppm magnesium sulfate with ro water and its working fine.
later d9

 

[Darth Fader]

hey, darth, you dropped the calmag on the 11th, today is the 14th, have noticed any improvement?

if not or it has gotten worse you might try the hardwater next. still at 6/9 for a few days just for effect,

im using 750 ppm flora nova bloom , 100 ppm calcium nitrate and
50 ppm mgnesium sufate. wth ro water and its working fine.
later d9

Looks the same. Yes, dropped the CamMag on the 11th and noticed the leaves on the 12th I'm not sure how much CalMag is sitting in the mix inside the res.

I'll go pick-up the hardwater micro today.

 

[Darth Fader]

Day 14 flower - Feb 13
- no feeding/watering
- discoloration remains same
- picked up KoolBloom

3 pics here

 

[delta9nxs]

i just looked at your new pics and it's not too bad, whatever it is. i would try the hardwater micro for 3-5 days first. the leaves showing symptoms probably will not improve much so i just remove the worst ones and watch new growth for results.

overall your plants look good. so some ratio is slightly off.

i just looked at the flora micro and flora hardwater micro labels again to make sure and the only significant difference is the Ca. from 5% to 1%. with 372 ppm water i would expect a shitpile of some kind of calcium in the water.

 

[Darth Fader]

Day 15 flower - Feb 14
- picked up a few gal of bottled spring water (005 ppm?)
- mixed up a new batch along w/ some left over mix
- ended up overshooting pH quite a bit (4.1!) and had to add tap water just to get my pH up to 5.5.
- added a 2nd gal of bottled water to drop the ppm
- what an idiot
- All told: 3 gal of mix came from 1gal tap + 2 gal bottled
- 6/9 + 5ml hygrozyme per gal. (3 gal)
- + 5ml CalMag to compensate (total, not per gal)
- only fed 1 gal total (.3, .3, .4 to Ch4, MK, CJ). The idea is to not add to the res. If I feed this way (small) everyday, then the plants will continue to feed on the lower ppm water. Otherwise, I go several days w/o watering and the high-ppm res overwhelms the smaller amt of new (good) H20 in dilution. Better to do small daily feedings & dilute/work off the res slowly.

Thx for the MarineDepot link D9, I happened to click on it & they had a 1-day special on this RO unit for half price ($115). Although I wanted to stay away from plumbing, from what I've been told, it's very simple to install. Either way I came to the conclusion that drinking clean water is a God-given right and a good enough excuse for any landlord LOL. Thx for all your guidance. In the end I usually end up taking the initial good advice after chasing my tail for a bit. In either case the wife is happy that we'll have healthy clean water. Everyone wins.

Day 16 flower - Feb 15
- excess mix from day 15 + 1 tsp KoolBloom
- edit: 1180 ppm after KoolBloom, pH@5.5
- gotta figure a schedule for the ladies. I think the Ch4 & CJ will both go 70+. Not sure about the MK. 8 wks I think.
- fed 1 gal total (.3, .3, .4 to Ch4, MK, CJ)
- plants are really growing every day now
- I wonder why the outside shoots have taken off (stretch) so much compared to the "infield"?
- took more pics that I'll get up tomorrow.
- no action on the leaf discoloration really. I did notice the same issue on a lot of the smaller, newer leafs. Hopefully the water adjustment over the next week will take care of this.
- tiny little buds are starting to form. I can't imagine how they turn into those beautiful monster colas I see all over these boards. But it's only my first grow, so I'm ready to be amazed. Should be a fun journey.
- In terms of maturity: MK, Ch4, CJ (by size of budsite). Only the MK has thick, sturdy stems. Ch4's are quite flimsy.

 

[delta9nxs]

great! you will never regret buying that filter. it's a nice big one. you will probably never use 180 gals per day but that just means your filter elements will last longer.

be aware that unit does not come with a "volume" tank or a faucet. typical ones at lowes or home depot are designed for under sink installation and have a rubber membrane equipped volume tank and a sink top mounted faucet.

the one you are getting is just the filters. It's really designed for aquarium use, but put out the same quality water. i have one of each type. do you have washer/dryer connections? if so it's really easy to hook up.

i'll show some pics of mine later.

you won't need the hardwater micro with the ro filter.

are you sure about the spring water being 005 ppm. usually only ro and distilled water will get readings that low. wal-mart usually has a ro machine that's 35 cents per gal that you could use temporarily.

let me know about the washer connections.

 

[Darth Fader]

great! you will never regret buying that filter. it's a nice big one. you will probably never use 180 gals per day but that just means your filter elements will last longer.

be aware that unit does not come with a "volume" tank or a faucet. typical ones at lowes or home depot are designed for under sink installation and have a rubber membrane equipped volume tank and a sink top mounted faucet.

the one you are getting is just the filters. It's really designed for aquarium use, but put out the same quality water. i have one of each type. do you have washer/dryer connections? if so it's really easy to hook up.

i'll show some pics of mine later.

you won't need the hardwater micro with the ro filter.

are you sure about the spring water being 005 ppm. usually only ro and distilled water will get readings that low. wal-mart usually has a ro machine that's 35 cents per gal that you could use temporarily.

let me know about the washer connections.

Whoops. Don't have washer/dryer in the apt. I thought it just went under the sink. Do I need to cancel & find a different unit?

 

[Darth Fader]

(15) Day 16 pics here.

Day 17 Flower - Feb 16
- fed @ 5.5pH, 686ppm 1gal total - leftover mix (no KoolBloom added)
- bit of pruning on the bottom