Yet another on coconut milk...
Increased nutritional value? Better brownies?
http://www.ijpas.com/article/view/2985
Increased nutritional value? Better brownies?
Cytokinin
- Thread starter h.h.
- Start date
http://plantphys.info/plant_physiology/cytokinin.shtml
Easy to understand with lots of information. It concludes my search.
Easy to understand with lots of information. It concludes my search.
So much for conclusions. Rrog's last post in the grow show lead me to checking IAA. In turn that lead me to a third possibility, ragi malt.
http://pcp.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/14/5/803
http://pcp.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/14/5/803
LadyLargely,
Sorry if I ruined your fun a bit! I wouldn't say the spray is worthless. It just isn't a good spray to use for gender control. It is something of a miracle for plants that are hermied by stress, and you just want them to finish. That's about the only gender control purpose I use it for, and thankfully I have not needed that much. It is great for dealing with lanky, hard to train sativas though. They're more auxin than cytokinin, so getting that Indica-style growth out of them is a challenge naturally. The spray can help rein that in.
Try exposing seeds to rotting bananas without getting them wet enough to germinate. In something enclosed so the escaping gasses fill the space the seeds are in. I would say this is the safest way to encourage females, but I still don't use it because the ones that would have been male are still more hermie prone. It is a great thing for outdoor seed grows though!
Sorry if I ruined your fun a bit! I wouldn't say the spray is worthless. It just isn't a good spray to use for gender control. It is something of a miracle for plants that are hermied by stress, and you just want them to finish. That's about the only gender control purpose I use it for, and thankfully I have not needed that much. It is great for dealing with lanky, hard to train sativas though. They're more auxin than cytokinin, so getting that Indica-style growth out of them is a challenge naturally. The spray can help rein that in.
Try exposing seeds to rotting bananas without getting them wet enough to germinate. In something enclosed so the escaping gasses fill the space the seeds are in. I would say this is the safest way to encourage females, but I still don't use it because the ones that would have been male are still more hermie prone. It is a great thing for outdoor seed grows though!
So with Kinetin or Ethylene, we are just making male seeds display feminine characteristics: female flowers, but the concern is that they could possibly revert back later and hermie. However as LadyL and DM have found, the Kinetin can work as long as we watch out for nanners.
Are there any other reasons not to do this???
All this sounds acceptable to me. In my OBBT grow, I have 4 seeds I'll be germinating. Doing the Banana Ethylene for 1 week prior to germination. Had considered continuing Ethylene while seeds are sprouting right up to inserting in soil.
Since I have only 3 plants, and since this technique has worked for DM and LadyL, I see the risk of hermie to be acceptable. My problem is I have to get seeds in the "ground" by mid-next-week, and I need three females.
So my options at this time are limited, but so is the risk of hermie as far as I can tell.
UPDATED QUESTIONS:
OK so is it thought that males and females are genetically established when seeds? As in chromosomally?
These hormones feminize males, and also make females super feminine? Fatter buds, etc.
If Kinetin suppresses maleness / augments femaleness, are we saying that Cytokinin does this also, or just the artificial Kinetin?
Hope I haven't used up my question quota for the week. Thanks.
Are there any other reasons not to do this???
All this sounds acceptable to me. In my OBBT grow, I have 4 seeds I'll be germinating. Doing the Banana Ethylene for 1 week prior to germination. Had considered continuing Ethylene while seeds are sprouting right up to inserting in soil.
Since I have only 3 plants, and since this technique has worked for DM and LadyL, I see the risk of hermie to be acceptable. My problem is I have to get seeds in the "ground" by mid-next-week, and I need three females.
So my options at this time are limited, but so is the risk of hermie as far as I can tell.
UPDATED QUESTIONS:
OK so is it thought that males and females are genetically established when seeds? As in chromosomally?
These hormones feminize males, and also make females super feminine? Fatter buds, etc.
If Kinetin suppresses maleness / augments femaleness, are we saying that Cytokinin does this also, or just the artificial Kinetin?
Hope I haven't used up my question quota for the week. Thanks.
having used Cytokinins in the 1980's for decades on vineyards I can say that it seemed to enhance the vines or crop slightly do what it was doing at the time. Whether it was during fruit set, berry size or coloring of fruit, it seemed to slightly enhance the plants efforts. Over 10 years, I used increasing amounts with no additional benefits.
So, I would surmise, if you are using any type of cold pressed kelp or extract, you are already getting more Cytokinins then your plant can make use of. I ended up using it in early spring as a foliar feed just before gibb application to further cell division, and once again just before ethylene spray for color. Other then those times, it was a waste of money. Translating that into this crop, I would think veg and early stage of flower would be the timing most beneficial. A tiny bit is good, more is never better.
So, I would surmise, if you are using any type of cold pressed kelp or extract, you are already getting more Cytokinins then your plant can make use of. I ended up using it in early spring as a foliar feed just before gibb application to further cell division, and once again just before ethylene spray for color. Other then those times, it was a waste of money. Translating that into this crop, I would think veg and early stage of flower would be the timing most beneficial. A tiny bit is good, more is never better.
I know where I'm going for my next wine tour...Thanks for checking in. Most of what I've posted has been from Google, not as much from practical experience.
The more I research ck the more I think I have already been using it by what I have in my compost. Hydro doesn't have this advantage. I think there is a lot we don't know about that is lost in hydro. I feel that going organic can make up these shortages. I think the Lady's bio bucket methods can help close the gap. Her heavy use of ck with the apparent success shows something yet is still missing in her mix. On the same note I'm trying to maximize whats in my compost. Thanks for the hands on.
The more I research ck the more I think I have already been using it by what I have in my compost. Hydro doesn't have this advantage. I think there is a lot we don't know about that is lost in hydro. I feel that going organic can make up these shortages. I think the Lady's bio bucket methods can help close the gap. Her heavy use of ck with the apparent success shows something yet is still missing in her mix. On the same note I'm trying to maximize whats in my compost. Thanks for the hands on.
h2 I agree completely. My first and only grow was drip hydro. As I went along asking the millions of annoying questions that I do, I found some were using Superthrive. Then I found that others replaced ST with Nitrozyme. NZ is organic and a broader hormone assay. Fat buds for sure, but few were doing this.
I also started using beneficial organisms in the reservoir, and was thoroughly impressed at how clean the res stayed. Then I started feeding the little buggers with Molasses. I also went heavy on aeration by replacing the piddly air pumps and air hoses with big pump and big air stones in res. All for the micro-life.
Lastly I included the Nitrozyme in foliar treatments along with Liquid Light and Penetrator.
I left that first and only grow starting to understand the real benefits of micro-life and hormone treatments. I also left with a "bad taste in my mouth" over the chem fert we had to leach out at the end of the grow.
So when I came to this forum and read DM's original tome I was struck as if by lightening. This is where I was headed all along. I immediately abandoned the thought of hydro and went full tilt into trying to read all I could about the elements of this new OBBT technique. And I'm incredibly glad I did.
I also started using beneficial organisms in the reservoir, and was thoroughly impressed at how clean the res stayed. Then I started feeding the little buggers with Molasses. I also went heavy on aeration by replacing the piddly air pumps and air hoses with big pump and big air stones in res. All for the micro-life.
Lastly I included the Nitrozyme in foliar treatments along with Liquid Light and Penetrator.
I left that first and only grow starting to understand the real benefits of micro-life and hormone treatments. I also left with a "bad taste in my mouth" over the chem fert we had to leach out at the end of the grow.
So when I came to this forum and read DM's original tome I was struck as if by lightening. This is where I was headed all along. I immediately abandoned the thought of hydro and went full tilt into trying to read all I could about the elements of this new OBBT technique. And I'm incredibly glad I did.
Info on Ethylene. It appears that ripening apples have more than bananas :http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Ethylene-Gas.htm
http://www.rexresearch.com/hhusb/hh4bot.htm#HH49
That second link discusses the role of cytokinin and sex expression. It would seem that artificial Kinetin or natural Cytokinin will do the same deal.
Also interesting is the value of continued presence of Ethylene after seeds. I wondered about that. So I'll expose the seeds as well as seedings to the ripening fruit.
http://www.rexresearch.com/hhusb/hh4bot.htm#HH49
That second link discusses the role of cytokinin and sex expression. It would seem that artificial Kinetin or natural Cytokinin will do the same deal.
Also interesting is the value of continued presence of Ethylene after seeds. I wondered about that. So I'll expose the seeds as well as seedings to the ripening fruit.
I picked up a whole coconut smashed it up and added to my mix. The coco meat is breaking down rapidly plus it feels nice on the hands. The shredded coconut I find contains salt.
I found coconut milk but it contains potassium molybisulfite. It will break down if heated to 190 but I don't know how that will effect the CK.
Perhaps letting the microbes do battle with it in some tea first?
I found coconut milk but it contains potassium molybisulfite. It will break down if heated to 190 but I don't know how that will effect the CK.
Perhaps letting the microbes do battle with it in some tea first?
I'm not sure if there is an advantage to either coco milk or kelp as far as CK. I can get the milk locally and cheap unlike the kelp.
I've been unknowingly using ethylene for some time with my bananas. I seem to always get a good ratio of females. I have always attributed that to potassium. I think paying closer attention to their ethylene production will be a help.
I don't know much about any of these things. I use what the old timers told me and what I've Googled.
I've been unknowingly using ethylene for some time with my bananas. I seem to always get a good ratio of females. I have always attributed that to potassium. I think paying closer attention to their ethylene production will be a help.
I don't know much about any of these things. I use what the old timers told me and what I've Googled.
I always just seem to end up with over ripe bananas.
http://www.as.wvu.edu/~cbarth/BIOL 350 Lecture 28 Cytokinin and Ethylene 080416 handouts.pdf
http://www.as.wvu.edu/~cbarth/BIOL 350 Lecture 28 Cytokinin and Ethylene 080416 handouts.pdf
Great question. A while back in this thread I asked the same thing.
If these hormones can make a male express female traits, do they also make a female into a super-female?
My last (and only) grow I used Nitrozyme with plenty of CK. The three females were sexed and males discarded. They had gigantic buds.
And just to confirm, seeds are actually pre-determined male or female, and we're just suppressing male-ness. I think it likely that a male forced to be female would not produce what a hormone treated natural female would produce.
I wish I had access to clones. That would solve the whole thing.
If these hormones can make a male express female traits, do they also make a female into a super-female?
My last (and only) grow I used Nitrozyme with plenty of CK. The three females were sexed and males discarded. They had gigantic buds.
And just to confirm, seeds are actually pre-determined male or female, and we're just suppressing male-ness. I think it likely that a male forced to be female would not produce what a hormone treated natural female would produce.
I wish I had access to clones. That would solve the whole thing.
