custom spectrum

RebelGrow · Mar 24, 2014

guys i've been on the fence on what spectrum is ideal for the flowering stage with led's. i'm going to order some apollos from cidly and want to make sure i'm covering all the bases. each module on the apollo has 15 diodes, now i'm wondering how many of red,blue,white,uv,ir i should use in each one. ideas?

sammyz2646 · Mar 24, 2014

From what I've gathered here by other smart people is a White/red combo. With 15 diodes, I would do 8 or 9 white and the rest red for full spectrum. That's just me

Phychotron · Mar 25, 2014

I just ordered a GrowBlu Apollo 240x3 and have compared them to other brands of Apollo fixtures and they have the most complete spectrum. They also claim bridgelux/epistar LEDs vs some other sites listing epistar and epiled or just epiled. I'd say watch out for the cheapest light you can find. Check out GrowBlu's specifications, they differ greatly from most of the Apollo out there.

I'm only a few days into flower on the first cycle but the plants are doing very well.

spachal · Mar 25, 2014

In this moment I'm using Vipar V450 with this spectrum: Blue(430~440nm,450~475nm) Red(620~630nm, 650~670nm),IR(730)Warm White(3000k~3500k) And Pure White(6000k~9000k). For veg stage it's GREAT (https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6263433&postcount=162 [Czech]), but I'm not sure if flowering stage will be perfect also ..
This light is based on cheapest epiled (~60lm/W) for sure ..

IMO for flowering is best some COB in combination warm white / neutral white, ie. Bridgelux 30-50W multiled panels (100-120lm/W). Not a combination of multiple spectrum leds, but only this 'one spectrum' :]

RebelGrow · Mar 26, 2014

does anyone have some ratios of what white/and which ones, to reds/and which ones to use? it sounds plausible to cut out blues in favor of whites…..

Phychotron · Mar 26, 2014

Heres the run down of a few of the Apollo lights out there, not all suppliers but a small comparison...

Autoflower Center: EPILED 630nm, 660nm, 725nm 460nm, 5700k
Grow Northern: EPILED 630nm, 660nm, 725nm 460nm, 5700k
Dutch Passion: Epistar 630nm, 660nm, 730nm & EPILED 460nm, EPILED 5700k
GrowBlu: 380, 430, 450, 470, 630, 650, 660, 730, 10,000k. Epistar/Bridgelux

Don't forget diode brand is important as well, not just wavelength. Growblu has multiple reds and blues to cover a wider area, the white is filler for the green and micro spectrum requirements

RebelGrow · Mar 27, 2014

Phychotron, well i checked with cidly and he emailed and says they use epistar diodes so that should be good i guess. on growblu's how many of each one you listed is in the clusters? could you take a photo of the bottom while it's on?

spachal · Mar 27, 2014

Hallo, about quality of leds, please see this table from user alesh:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=50834&pictureid=1187816 (Czech)

Vyrobce = Producer
vyzareny = radiated
ucinnost = efficiency

As you can see, there are big differences between bins, so don't check only producer of leds, but also used bins ..

Phychotron · Mar 27, 2014

spachal said:
Hallo, about quality of leds, please see this table from user alesh:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=50834&pictureid=1187816 (Czech)

Vyrobce = Producer
vyzareny = radiated
ucinnost = efficiency

As you can see, there are big differences between bins, so don't check only producer of leds, but also used bins ..

This is also critical, as they can sell you the same named diodes but from a lower bin to save money. I believe this is one of those hidden factors that separate the more expensive lights from the cheaper fixtures.

Here is a shot of some Advanced LED DS100's, a DS400 and the Apollo 240 in the background. I'll see about getting a better close up.

Phychotron · Mar 27, 2014

Here's a close up, i tried to cover the diodes with paper but I guess the camera didn't mind either way.

PetFlora · Mar 27, 2014

Hopefully, you haven't ordered yet

Unlike most veggies and herbs, which is what leds are great for, mj is a FRUITING plant

As such it needs a FULL spectrum of light to provide ALL it's goodness

I was an early buyer R/B ufo 90 ($360) that supposedly had all the necessary peak R/B spectrums covered. What a waste, but sometimes you have to spend money to get an education.

I can hear you now, but people have been showing nice/really nice grows for a while now

Think about how people or animals look healthy on the outside, but can be very ill on the inside

Without the full spectrum on a daily basis, the plant will begin to adapt GENETICALLY

Future seed generations will be different, and not in a good way

COB technology is a game changer, especially when CW/NW/WW COBs are used instead of multispectrum chips

BASICALLY, seedlings/clone need 'more' blue whereas budding plants need 'more' red- but they both need full spectrum WHITE

This is easily accomplished with several o/o switches

A-51 and Apache Tech use primarily WHITE leds. A 51 includes reds as a bump once buds set

hth

RebelGrow · Mar 27, 2014

Ah petflora I SAS hoping you'd chime in, I've see a lot of your posts on different forums. I'm looking to only order a flowering specific spectrum, I have some eshine leds I ordered a couple of years ago that I'm going to use to replace my 400w mh in the veg room.

PetFlora · Mar 27, 2014

Wait till you read this

Down Light order stopped after a lengthy phone call this morning with BML- a very sophisticated led lighting company

Instead of me getting the 5 Ali down lights, BML is going to send me 2 x 3ft @ 2700K light bars to supplement my 3500/5000 ufo 90s

They have a rather extensive lighting background in large commercial situations

It will be worth anyone's while to spend some time on their site

Their Spyder 600 is designed for a 4 x 4 BUT he is going to make one with a 2 ft spine for me to evaluate in place of my hot5 Bad Boy

http://www.bmlhorticulture.com/how-t...e-grow-lights/

Individual bars you select the length and lens angle (optical quality)

http://www.bmlhorticulture.com/led-l...0k-warm-white/

http://www.bmlhorticulture.com/spydr...-max-spectrum/

and here comes the orgasm. This program allows the grower to select their own spectrums and see exactly how they will look, how much CCT, CRI, and an actual graph. A custom made light. Oh my.

http://www.bmlcustom.com/

sammyz2646 · Apr 7, 2014

This flood light has 3 COB's of the same spectrum, the warm white is an option and assuming that this unit doesn't run super hot , it does put out 21000 lumens, even though lumens is not the governing order, don't you guys think that it would grow nicely? It is $429 though. It draws around 210 watts

http://www.whitelionlighting.com/Flood-light-Bridgelux-COB-LED-210W-21000Lm-p-347.html

PetFlora · Apr 7, 2014

It looks worthy, but likely actual draw more like 150w, maybe even 100w, so cost per watt is on the high side

For that $$$$, I would look at eShine 5G, and once chips fade, replace the with CW/WW

http://eshinesystems.en.alibaba.com...483/5G_GrowSun_160W_Smart_LED_Grow_Light.html

sammyz2646 said:
This flood light has 3 COB's of the same spectrum, the warm white is an option and assuming that this unit doesn't run super hot , it does put out 21000 lumens, even though lumens is not the governing order, don't you guys think that it would grow nicely? It is $429 though. It draws around 210 watts

http://www.whitelionlighting.com/Flood-light-Bridgelux-COB-LED-210W-21000Lm-p-347.html

sammyz2646 · Apr 7, 2014

Nice nice, always something new.
I am seemingly becoming addicted to improving my lighting, especially with LED's, and chasing the current technology.

I spoke with a Shenzen guy about the new generation 64 x 3 full spectrum Cob chips hoping they would have solved some of the previous failure issues. Even he said that the full spectrum chips are great, BUT, the technology involved with incorporating multiple led's with multiple spectrums running at different voltages is not quite there YET. They are still running into heat issues as well. All in all, the full spectrum chips are not quite there yet

But if I could use the CXA 3050 or 3070 to replace the failed full spectrum cob's (if they fail) , hoping of course that there is room in the existing fixture to add the new relevant driver, etc
These CREE chips wouldn't hopefully have these issues

PetFlora · Apr 7, 2014

Two things wrong with multi-spectrum that you mentioned, but the 3rd AND MOST IMPORTANT is that they simply are not needed as CW/NW/WW have all the spectrums anyway AND eliminate the voltage issues AND are more efficient AND last longer

sammyz2646 said:
Nice nice, always something new.
I am seemingly becoming addicted to improving my lighting, especially with LED's, and chasing the current technology.

I spoke with a Shenzen guy about the new generation 64 x 3 full spectrum Cob chips hoping they would have solved some of the previous failure issues. Even he said that the full spectrum chips are great, BUT, the technology involved with incorporating multiple led's with multiple spectrums running at different voltages is not quite there YET. They are still running into heat issues as well. All in all, the full spectrum chips are not quite there yet

But if I could use the CXA 3050 or 3070 to replace the failed full spectrum cob's (if they fail) , hoping of course that there is room in the existing fixture to add the new relevant driver, etc
These CREE chips wouldn't hopefully have these issues

sammyz2646 · Apr 7, 2014

Hey Pet, what would you say to me swapping out every other one in this fixture with a warm white? 50 full/ 50 ww. I received my chips to fix this light plant today and am thinking about adding some ww now that i know how. I know i would need different drivers for the ww probably. Your thoughts?

PetFlora · Apr 7, 2014

Are you saying you will be replacing every other OEM chip with WWs?

I'm not saying it won't work, and work well, but why not go the extra mile: Compare the 2 chips spectral charts, then see which new COBs gives you the best bang for your buck

sammyz2646 said:
Hey Pet, what would you say to me swapping out every other one in this fixture with a warm white? 50 full/ 50 ww. I received my chips to fix this light plant today and am thinking about adding some ww now that i know how. I know i would need different drivers for the ww probably. Your thoughts?

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=10746&pictureid=1226852 View Image

sammyz2646 · Apr 8, 2014

PetFlora said:
Are you saying you will be replacing every other OEM chip with WWs?

I'm not saying it won't work, and work well, but why not go the extra mile: Compare the 2 chips spectral charts, then see which new COBs gives you the best bang for your buck

Yes that was my idea, and I will check these charts to see, but this should do well.
I was even considering omitting half of the COB's and running only 8 instead of 16 to conserve heat. Then I could pirate the other drivers and reflectors into ???? anything

custom spectrum

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