Converting A 30X40 Pole Barn Into A Grow. Starting With Only 24 Plants. In Need Of Help With Dimensions For Rooms.

[Rocket Soul]

The front porch idea is a great idea. I definitely may have to consider that.

The head of the construction crew will be at the meeting tomorrow, so ill be sure to bring up everything you mentioned about the ceilings. Thank you so much for mentioning that, otherwise i probably would not have thought to bring that up tomorrow.

Keeping the 5x5 footprint in mind with the HLG Scorpions is definitely an easier way to think about it. Im going to bring up your idea of aisles of 5x10 at the meeting tomorrow nad see what everyone thinks.

It is a very small amount of plants, but our thought behind it is just to not overwhelm ourselves since this is our first grow. We want to grow the maximum amount of plants we can grow, while avoiding being overwhelmed, so that we can produce the best quality possible.

Do you think we could do more than 24 plants, considering it will only be 2 people working at this grow and we are both beginners?

We have decided on Organic soil for our first grow. Roots Organic brand to be exact, and possibly experiment with some Build A Soil 3.0 as well.

Thanks again for all of the help. I feel much more prepared going into this meeting after having talked to all of you on this post. I appreciate it!

I think mid sized plants are easier to deal with. Too many plants; one of the gets a pest and they all get pests. No good. Shorter veg is nice but its a mess to water, clone etc

Really big plants: harder to move about, long veg time and all in one basket: it goes bad and you have wasted all that effort vegging.

You can deal with 24 plants, no probs. Some like to train and mess with plants a lot, we just try the minimum touching. Lolipoping for airflow and pruning some lower budsite to concentrate top buds. But then the minimum. Some small bending/netting and super cropping in veg but thats it.

Try with your tents to get a feel first, its a long learning experience. I do not believe you can plan out everything from before and get it right on the first go. Another good idea is to try to get your hands on good genetics tontey out first, on small scale. Make sure any clones you get are healthy, lots of hop virus in the US. If you start out big with tainted genetics then youll have a large disappointment ; better make sure you have something good to grow.

Substrate: we use coco, works fine with nice growth rates and very predictable when it comes to watering etc. but you need to deal with hydro headaches, ex/ph etc.
Buildasoil style: with high intensity light nute availability becomes an issue. All nutes in the soil is sweet but for really big plants, those nutes are going to be running out. But not all at the same time. Adding liquid nutes becomes a bitch cause how do you know how much, and what nutes. Also high intensity growing with leds requires a lot of nutes. If you start out wrong your likely to have deficiencies. And your environment will affect transpiration; if temps go up then transpiration goes up which can cause too many nutes in the plant, toxicity. With coco hydro you have more control. But can be somewhat finicky, get calcium and mag right. But still, its much more adjustable.
Is growing legal where youre at? Just do a few outdoor plants with soil, works quite well. One nice grow style with nutes in soil is sub irrigation, theres a really long thread on rollitup on it but there might ne something here aswell.

 

[flower~power]

The room size won’t hurt to be big. You can put 1 plant per light the first run or you could do 9, its decided by how long the veg is. 6-8 week veg and you could do 9 in a 5x5. 12+week veg and you could do 1. What you produce will be decided by how many watts of lights you are flowering under but the more plants under each light the more flower with very little difference if any in quality. Look up treetroit_city on ig, he does one plant per light. Lots to decide. If you hang a bunch of lights you are going to have your hands full, it’s always something and great flower is the only way it’s worth the effort. You can do it though, just be ready to be busy.

Excellent advice

 

[flower~power]

Try with your tents to get a feel first, its a long learning experience. I do not believe you can plan out everything from before and get it right on the first go. Another

More excellent advice

 

[Ca++]

Plant density of 4 per meter suits me, and a meter is about as far as you want to be reaching. If you picture a greenhouse, you typically have a central walk way. It needs to be 40cm wide to think about turning around, and even wider if you are big lads and expect to pass in this center isle. The beds each side, to me, should be a meter deep. Or two plants deep with 4 per meter. While these beds would be 3 meters long each. This works out as a 3x3 room, and you can have your tank at the end of the isle, if you want to room temperature.

This meter is important. If you go over, you can't reach very well. So would go to two meters, and reach from each side. Other sizes tend to be a worse ratio of plants to walkways. Each walkway should reach the maximum amount of plants. Thats way the 3x3 room works. You have 6 meters of plants, and 3 of floor. One of these might be swept by the door. One in center of the room, and the end one can be kit/tank or even 4 more plants. If the walls not shelved out for power points and fans, air pumps and lighting timers. Meters/feeds/scissors/net/ties...

Working in meters, generally means buying lights for meters. You could light the whole room with 4 lights, but 6 is just better. If you were to follow my general rules.

3Kg should be expected. Less is a disappointing, and more comes with experience.

A second room of the same dimensions, would offer another 3 meters down one side. Ample to have 2 meters of veg, and another meter of propagation and shit that's in the way. The other 3 meters can be drying space. With the access serves as trimming space. Making use of the the rooms extract filters, and 60% RH suits both jobs. The drying area wants to be within the main barn, in a space that can be cool. Not an outside wall that gets the sun all day. Or backing onto the bloom. A personal welfare area perhaps.

This in a 30x40..
3 meters is about 10 foot. You could fit 3 such rooms along one side. Leaving 10 foot for walls and gaps between the rooms for storage, tanks, and access through the walls for services. Then 3 such rooms, along the other side. With a central passage 3 meters wide, for some big trimming sessions and such.
I'm thinking in modules of the same size, as it aids changing there purpose. You would soon have 3 running, with one of the 3 for veg, and 2 of them blooming.
The other side could be 3 more, but you might be ready for a big flower room. It could be full length, and 4 meter deep. Still leaving a 2 meter wide passage.

I'm undecided, but that would be a 9 meter long room. A center isle a meter wide, can reach half way over a 2 meter deep grow space to each side. The other side of these 2 meter deep spaces, is another isle, that you can reach 1 meter from. That's it done. Three isles. A door each. 4 grow spaces, from 3 isles.
I only built out 30 foot of the 40, as walls will loose some, and there will be ducting out through walls perhaps. Air-con lung spaces. Things I can't yet see.

 

[Itsmychoice]

Rocket is right, good healthy cuts and their genetics will be very important and determine everything. I also agree that soil will make it more difficult, just some unseeable variables that will give tough to notice clues for someone new. For big plants i would go at least 5 and probably 10gal pots if doing soil. I think he means rows not aisles. In 15x24 i would do two rows of 5 lights in the middle. The hlgs don’t quite cover 5x5. Also know that what treetroit does is not easy. Supporting the plants is very important.

 

[Ca++]

With a fresh build like this, I would have a think about the system to be used, and how it might drain out, below floor level. For instance a room for dripping, might be best served with a floor that slopes to a floor scuttle. Where a pump might lift it out. A design that could aid cleaning in any case.

 

[Ca++]

A 3rd post.. I must be interested

The front door isn't in the center. The center being where I would like my open work room, running full length. I think the door could open into it's own small room, where a second internal door enters the work room. An airlock, basically. So it's that side for the 3 little rooms, and this airlock. That could be a good start.


There are many ways forward with this. Many people would just want to fill it straight away. So you still have your airlock. Into a work space. Then just one grow and bloom room though. Bloom being half the building. Grow 25%. Then 25% for your airlock, drying space, kit and trimming. You can't just divide it to them sizes though. You need to think about effective access. Which starts with measuring yourself, not just the building.

 

[Rocket Soul]

Yeah, i meant rows. 2 plant wide or 3 plant wide depending on plant size but you gotta be able to access somewhat. I like raised tables if you got the height, that way you can have water collected under your tray. If cheapin you can make trays from corrugated plastic for roofing with a gutter on the sides. Raised tables are friends on your back aswell, less stooping.
But really i cant stress getting experience first, its your most important resource.
Trying to plan for everything before but without experience is hard. There is just too many things to think off. And weve not covered everything yet. But everybody here has had some good points.
The most valuable asset in a fighter plane is still the pilot and them plane cost like 100 million. In the grow i consult for our metrics started to improve when I forcefully argued for doing stuff that we can really learn from. Setting up 2 conditions inside the same run instead of trying one thing in one run and then another in the next. Those learning experiences are really paying off now. Both lighting and techniques, how hard to push nutes, extra additives etc. Push your grow in a way so you learn first.
By now theres plenty of people advising you, both here and from your team. Eventually people are going to say opposite things; how are you going to handle that if you dont get any practical experience?

If you have a couple of 5x5 tents then just put them up now in order to start growing asap. Maybe try 2 different lighting strategies; one for diablo, efficiency and raw output. Another one with a more spectrum geared light. Or add some near uv around 400nm to a diablo. This was key to increase quality in our grow.

Ive consulted with so many people building their own diy lights on riu over the years and i came to a conclusion: some people ask for advice just cause they are afraid of taking decisions and then take the project to realization. Fuzzing over minute details asking and re-asking. My advice is to start this now but without having to go thru a full renovation, get growing son and get some experience under the belt and go on to larger grows.

 

[Itsmychoice]

I think you can borrow experience, that is what these forums have provided. With the right controls in place, like ac, heat and dehumidification, following ipm recommendations, and starting with healthy plants I think a complete beginner has a good chance of getting lucky and never having a bad run. There is nothing to figure out, the biggest way you could fuck up is by cheaping out on environmental controls. If you are set on soil i would hand water especially with a low plant count. I ran soil for the first 5 and I have had 5 flower rooms running nonstop for 12 years and my first years quality was very similar to now because i learned from the forums what to do not by trial and error. I am building out 18k ft2 starting next week very much like i built out my first room just multiplied. Some version of rolling tables isn’t necessary but it helps in accessing in between rows. I have learned not to put plants against the walls.

 

[Rocket Soul]

I think you can borrow experience, that is what these forums have provided. With the right controls in place, like ac, heat and dehumidification, following ipm recommendations, and starting with healthy plants I think a complete beginner has a good chance of getting lucky and never having a bad run. There is nothing to figure out, the biggest way you could fuck up is by cheaping out on environmental controls. If you are set on soil i would hand water especially with a low plant count. I ran soil for the first 5 and I have had 5 flower rooms running nonstop for 12 years and my first years quality was very similar to now because i learned from the forums what to do not by trial and error. I am building out 18k ft2 starting next week very much like i built out my first room just multiplied. Some version of rolling tables isn’t necessary but it helps in accessing in between rows. I have learned not to put plants against the walls.

I agree, especially on environmental controls. Always better to have some help before and while you start. Also the step from tent to larger open space can be challenging, especially if you cant control climate fully. The thing i react to is the laying super detailed plans without having grown anything before and doing a full refurb with bells and whistles straight away. Its quite likely to miss something and when you have it all built out its hard to break down walls, make new holes etc you kinda feel a bit locked in by the investment. Its also important to have some experience in order to manage expectations, if you invest a lot for little results (yield/quality but mainly the enjoyment of doing it) then youre more likely to grow tired and disillusioned. Then you lose both your investment and that dream you had about growing fire, lose-lose situation.
Maybe im painting a picture of "this is hard" too much. But the as someone who gives advice its easy to not see the connection between advice and how it ends up being implemented. Even if you have great environmental control its still possible to set it up in a way which gives you non optimal results; if the setup isnt flexible enough to make adjustments then its likely the advice gets thrown back in your face: "id did what you told me and now im f-ed, just spent 10g and its your fault" and "why didnt you tell me i had to think about X". Theres never a way for you to know from sitting at the other side of a keyboard. The way you describe, little by little doing more and bigger, continuosly taking advice from others, integrating what works for you in your situation, is the best way.
My growbuddy was adviced by a supposedly good grower, had a grow shop and everything, and eventually started to understand that the advice he was getting was based on what this guy "felt the plants would like" and he mostly had experience in outdoors. Lost a lot of time and investment. The first realisation of growbuddy was that growing indoors is done with machines, took over a year for him to really understand that he need full climate control after his mentor had led him towards ideas which wouldnt work but was cheaper. The credit he had to start with was spent and he had little to show for it but experience of what not to do. Took him time to get out of the hole, both in money and in setting ideas into his mind which weren't really right.

18000 ft2 is nice and big, hope you share some of the build out. I dont have experience of that big so would love to see it

 

[Itsmychoice]

For raising the hlgs i just welded up a frame the width of the mounting holes for each row and mounted the winch up in the trusses with the remote hanging down

 

[Ca++]

I imagined you would put a ceiling in. Leaving it open, presents some issues with keeping your rooms apart. Which is as much an air handling issue, as it is about light. Different areas want to be sealed, except for controlled air movement through them. Having some separate loft space above them, is nice for routing around ducting, and perhaps fan placement, and lighting power runs. The ceiling should also be insulated. To keep heat in/out. The gable ends of the building are good positions for louver grills, into plenums. To be able to shift a good volume of air through the place.

In the UK, we can't insulate a roof like yours is done. Nobody will insure it, so loans are insecure. I'm unsure of your weather, but a grow room RH would condense up there and rot the roof. It's too sealed.

What would be nice, as a room down each side of a central corridor. With the corridor not having a ceiling. So you can be up on top of the plant areas easily.

In a lab build, you would typically use the building floor, to place rooms upon. Rooms with their own floor, walls and ceiling. All services are kept outside. Even lighting shines in through windows, so the guy in overalls can do just about every repair, without entering the lab. This approach of keeping most things out the room, such as the tank, lowers the need to keep changing clothes. Or to change the tank when the lights are on. A particular challenge when alternating bloom areas 12/12. Often met by green lighting.

 

[Itsmychoice]

Its 3 rooms, the other two have ceilings and sealed and fed co2, you can see it the other pictures. There is 2” of foam board above the 3” of spray foam and a layer of bubble on top then metal roofing. That is the veg room and it is open ceiling because i pull air from the outside and it pushes the warm air over the rooms out the attic vent on the other side. It’s all controlled to maintain temp and co2. I put the hlgs in to do a flower run but they will be swapped back to 315s even though they do veg nicely. That pic was just to show how i did the lift for the hlgs.

 

[armedoldhippy]

i wish i could find the "Grow!" magazine i had. the article was about a family in the midwest (a legal state) that had a building nearly exactly like yours. they used a fence post auger and tractor to drill holes, and filled them with topsoil & alfalfa pellets, using no nutes whatsoever. all they had to supply was water, and if my memory of the article was correct, they used collected rainwater. i envy you the space you have, and can't wait to see what you do with it!

 

[Ca++]

Its 3 rooms, the other two have ceilings and sealed and fed co2, you can see it the other pictures. There is 2” of foam board above the 3” of spray foam and a layer of bubble on top then metal roofing. That is the veg room and it is open ceiling because i pull air from the outside and it pushes the air out the attic on the other side. It’s all controlled to maintain temp and co2. I put the hlgs in to do a flower run but they will be swapped back to 315s even though they do veg nicely. That pic was just to show how i did the lift for the hlgs.

You have built 3 room already? wow

Oh, your not the OP.
I get it now

 

[oldworld]

You can do as many plants as you want. But you're gonna hate your life. The majority of the grow, they don't take much effort. But sometimes they take a lot at once. And like the other guy said - if you hang 24 lights, there's always gonna be something. At that point you might considering hiring some help.

And for soil, I would recommend looking into a local landscaping/garden supply, and order in a truckload of their super ultra premium soil... at like 100 dollars a yard. Build some big raised beds. Give them enough good soil they can be treated like field crops rather than potted plants. Eliminate that headache at least.

I think this is awesome. I would volunteer to help, in exchange for some grow space. Actually, that might be a good way to recruit a little manpower. Do x in exchange for y space in my grow barn. You could probably find someone interested.

Edit: aww man. There was a whole page I didn't see. Oh well. I still think this is cool.