Confused scrog grower need help please!

[greendream420]

Hello icmag
I have been growing scrog for a while, but i have been starting the plants of in confined spaces with poor growing conditions. They have started of stunted and grew very bushy due to the lst aswell, I got my act together 3 weeks ago and set them up in a recirculating satellite perlite system in my tent (2x2x2 metres).
Once they went in they took and they have trippled in size.
I really like flowmasta's method of scrog, so i decided to try mimic his grow...4-5 days before flowering, He tips each of the main branches 3 nodes down to promote 3 colas sites inplace of the one. And on the smaller branches he tips 1-2 nodes down just to stunt the growth for an even canopy and tighter growth.
His plants are in prime health when he uses this technique.
I used his method and i am unsure my plants where ready, i also did not tip all the smaller branches nor trim enough of the under growth which has come back to bite me.
My plants response on the branches that were tipped seemed to be a slow recovery and the untipped secondarys and undergrowth just kept shooting up.
I also messed up by giving them too much feed and the nitrogen overdose caused some very leggy growth?
I am now left with a very crowded canopy, that is dense in the middle with alot of competition for light and air with alot of moisture building up on the leaves, and the branches on the outside are shorter so are recieving less of the light and getting left behind...
A few days after doing this i realized i had messed up, i tried to defoliate as much as i could and remove some growth but there was just to much and i was too worried about more stress to do any more too them and due to space had flip them anyway and just hope the stretch would see them through jungle.
I wish i was more sure about how much you can truely prune of plants, i have been getting to many mixed ideas over the years from reading alot of different growers takes.
I chose not to tip my plants for a few grows, i just wish i had been smarter and choose a better time to start.

I am now in day 3 of flower,not alot of stretch yet, but if it has it hasn't helped. I want to attack the plants somehow.
Could i just go ahead and tip/remove branches and leafs that i feel i need to?
I know it's not advised in early flowering but i feel like i dont have many options here.
I am mainly worried about all the humidity that hangs around in the crowded growth, as this seems to limit the plants potential anyway.
Please help!! I would like to get photos for you all and if i have to i will but i have security concerns

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Keep working on thinning out the dense areas. If you have to cut a branch, CUT A BRANCH... believe me when I tell you it's better than losing 4-6 branches or the whole grow due to mold.

Get some fans under the canopy blowing _gently_ upward... help keep air moving through the canopy.

You'll make it

Stay Safe!

 

[toppin]

Like hydro said keep working the dense areas it may be easier once the stretch starts to un-tuck some from the scrog and move it to a less dense area if possible (easier said than done). I once over vegged and had similar problem. The end product was affected due to not getting enough light to bud areas.

Next time do your scrog as normal and just try topping 1 plant once or twice before u flower it. I dont do it this say so cant offer advise i top my girls before they go into veg room then lst them so i have no need to top any before flower as i already have mulitipull heads. When tring something new for the first time try not to do too much too fast. Good luck mate

 

[greendream420]

Thanks alot for chiming in lads.

Keep working on thinning out the dense areas. If you have to cut a branch, CUT A BRANCH... believe me when I tell you it's better than losing 4-6 branches or the whole grow due to mold.

Get some fans under the canopy blowing _gently_ upward... help keep air moving through the canopy.

You'll make it

Stay Safe!

Yo Hydro Soil, yeh i think i will just get in there and thin out some shittt... I will try to leave as many branches as possible, sacraficing fan leafs for tips?
This timing with the weather round here sucks man. My tent is dropping in temp and gaining humidity just now, its like 55-60 with 23c above the canopy, with a cold spike that takes it down to 18c lights on and its just getting colder.
But i dunno about the temp and humidity with in the plant.
Alot of moisture building on the fan leafs... can i get ruthless with alot of fans that are up top(really the whole mid section is too crowded with leafs aswell)?
I have read how veg plants like more humidity and flowering less.
Is it an immediate change they prefer, as to a slower transition over the stretch period? I am worried all this humidity will be hindering the growth, on top of poor light penetration?

Man, cheers for suggesting fans for underneath. I am slowly gathering what i need and just cant seem to purchase enough bloody fans haha

Like hydro said keep working the dense areas it may be easier once the stretch starts to un-tuck some from the scrog and move it to a less dense area if possible (easier said than done). I once over vegged and had similar problem. The end product was affected due to not getting enough light to bud areas.

Next time do your scrog as normal and just try topping 1 plant once or twice before u flower it. I dont do it this say so cant offer advise i top my girls before they go into veg room then lst them so i have no need to top any before flower as i already have mulitipull heads. When tring something new for the first time try not to do too much too fast. Good luck mate

Thanks Topping, yeh buddy once that stretch kicks i will be doing what i can.haha man i've pulled my screen up and put it back down last night in an effort to get the tips even... not easy when it's one net covering 3 big mamma's and your doing it alone
So i have ALOT of under growth still... Do you think i should wait till the stretch is over till i attack any of that and just work on the upper?

I like your way mate, it seems like a tried and true method for good structured plants. All my grows so far i seem to make hasty decisions too late or go into too soon with not enough know how or equipment and cost us in yield... just wanna get the yields big so i can help people

 

[toppin]

Hi greendream lol i know the feeling mate sometime you need a 2nd pair of hand even if u both cant fit in. If u focus on just the scrog for now then move on to the the under growth after the stretch has finished. You should notice the stretch start in the next couple of days and that will be enough work to keep you busy till it over. Sound silly but its all about getting the scrog dialed in. I try to learn from my mistakes it always the best way. Making mistake is not a bad thing as long a you learn a lesson from it ie i once over vegged and now il never make that mistake again.

If u make any changes to how u grow or do thing keep it to a minimum or just try it on 1 test plant then take it from there.

Keep up the work mate and you will get there

 

[greendream420]

Hey toppin, i been fairly busy sorry mate.
So the stretch started and with alot of tucking i have been able to keep pruning to a min. saving the undergrowth for when the stretch stops.
Wish i could say i learn from my mistakes, now dealing with n toxicity from been over zealous in veg... second time in a row now ahwell just know my yield wont be up there with the delayed flowering im experiencing.
Man the over veg is tragic... sometimes i wish my setup was less yield focused so i didn't have to push my novice luck.
Blah haha damn growing fine erb is a challenge!
Thanks again for clearing that up for me toppin and giving me my next move.
take care mate

 

[toppin]

The stretch should stop after 2-3 weeks into flower (not to sure what week your on now) so carry on tucking till week 3 then let it grow through netting. Read up on lollipopping and do it after the stretch has stopped (lollipopping is just really removing lower down branches to free up space, improve air flow around bottom of plant) + the plant is wasting energy growing lower branches/bud that will not get much light due to the canopy blocking out most of it.

 

[toppin]

Mate when you get this down to a t you will love the results. If its less work your looking for maybe try not topping, less plants (less can be more) or veg for less time. Iv got a clone in right now that was only just rooted (not topped) then vegged for a week then put into flower, its only a small plant that just meets the netting and didnt even need tucking.

 

[greendream420]

Hey toppin, i am now 10 days into bloom mate.
Tucking away like a madman still but things are looking up thanks bud.
Thanks for suggesting lolli-popping mate, i shall look it up and get ready for it.
I have a northern lights in there,my biggest plant to date, which i reckon would be a pound plant but not sure as it is also my most overgrown plant yet, i cannot wait to lolli-pop that beast.

Yeh mate your right, everyone who gets it dialled seems to be having some unreal results.
I will stick it out i reckon, but yeh i might just scale it down for now.
So what would you expect of your 1 week vegger? I have never worked with any plants vegged under 4 or 3 weeks. i think i might try 2 weeks for my next batch.
I am always shooting for big yields.But ur right mate, less can be more and especially if i just wind up over growing em.
Some day i hope to get some pictures up for you to see! but for now mate i'll just smoke a spliff for ya. eace:

 

[toppin]

Yes greendream you ok mate. The 2 plants (canna venture-ell) that have only had a week long veg was a bit of a fuck up really like i said before i top before they go into veg/flower room, 2 out of the 8 that was topped hermed on me a day or 2 before they was due to go into veg room and because i run a 8 pot wilma system (drip feed system) didnt see the point of running only 6 its like running at only 75%. luckily enough i managed to get 2 cutting 4-5 days old from a good friend. I only veg for 2 week myself so by the time it had rooted it got repotted and vegged for a week .

 

[toppin]

Go with a two week veg much more manageable and you can fill the scrog better ( my screen is more full when i veg for 2 weeks than when i over vegged that time). + if u can knock 2 weeks off the over all time it take thats always a good thing lol. They all get chopped next week so il try take a load of pic when im doing it just never put pics up on here yet.

 

[VerdantGreen]

it sounds to me like you are trying to do too many things.

topping and tipping in scrog is only going to make it more complicated imo. one of the main advantages of scrog is that you dont have to top the plants as they branch out by themselves.

if your plants are grwing bigger in the middle of the screen you may want to raise your light so that it is irradiating the whole canopy properly without so much of a sweet spot in the middle.

one thing you really need with scrog is good ventilation. lots of air exchange and circulation. if you are getting moisture on the fans then it sounds like yours isnt sufficient.

once the screen is full its ok to let the plants grow up from there a bit and then you get nice colas growing off the screen.
much easier to scrog plants from clone rather than from seed as well as they grow a bit more compact.
i do modular scrog in organic soil but you may find my threads helpful for setup and technique

VG

 

[VerdantGreen]

p.s. veg times etc are all strain dependent so you need to learn your plants/cuts by running them a few times and then you will dial it in better.

 

[greendream420]

Shit mate lucky you had the hook up, ideally yeh best not to have the room running all that cost and management for 75 %. Good to hear you will be rewarded with the fruits of your labour shortly! You don't have to put up pictures if you do not feel comfortable mate.

Hey verdantgreen, thanks for your input mate.
I am guilty of making it more complicated than it has to be.
I will be checking out your thread fosure mate.
I have grown plants fairly uniform with out tipping before so i know it can be done. I think i am partially swayed by tipping at the start to maybe have a more uniform base( 4 arms ) for me to work with but then again most my previous grows start of in very poor setups and i was getting discouraged and would let them go abit , so things are going to be very different now i have a grow and flower room.
Air circulation is something i am always trying to tune right, i have 2 oscillating fans in corners diagonal from each other(they sit a foot below the canopy, tilted up). 1 box fan below the plants blowing upwards and 1 blowing across the top between the light and canopy.
I have a 150rs can fan for exhaust.
Should i have an oscillating in each corner and should i raise them to blow from the top of the canopy tilting downwards if you know what i mean?
Cheers

 

[dreadlock]

sounds like your on the right path buddy.. as mentioned above most things are strain dependent so knowing your strains traits is really important, with scrogs i find this to be crucial to achieving a full potential of a scrog.. somethings that comes with time & practice..

all the best

 

[greendream420]

Thanks dreadlocks, i have a few strains at the moment and it is unreal just how different each one is in ways! My unknown northern lights cut-grows huge semi broad leafs with really heavy branches that are kind of rubbery, not the tightest growth, Nitrogen senstive and but has very vigerous growth and becomes a very nice spaced out bush if not overgrown lol
Then my flying dutchman's blueberry skunk-is completely different, short broad leafs with a strong stocky structure, strong feeder and also excellent vigour. Because of the tighter growth from the blueberry skunk, the plant has now shown to be the most overgrown of the lot, now the stretch has pulled the northern lights out of the shit! All good though, i am very happy and next time i know better...
Happy growing to all ;peace;

 

[dreadlock]

i'm growing a sativa now compared to indicas and they are different in feedind. very light feeders and fussy with N lol i gree diff strains.. 6 on my first run and was a complete guessing game the whole way.. i kept the ones i liked and still growing them 3 years later.. i know so much about the plants now. what it eats, stretch etc.. too good.

anyway all the best dude

 

[greendream420]

Yeh mate haha sometimes we learn the hard way that's fosure. I like how you have stayed true to the same cuts mate, i could see that as been great way to study the plant.
I'm chopping and changing everything all the time, to many strains appeal to me for different reasons but can't have them all when your state doesn't permit. Not wrong about the sativas... having them sharing a tank with a heavy feeder sucks big time, speaking of which... haha of no fault but my own.
Along with my other 2 i have a bagseed sativa, the smoke had a subtle chocolate with great clarity for stone, but it hasn't liked the feed rate as much as the other 2.
3 strains and 50 litre tank, something i have to address.
Thanks mate and all the best to you dudeson

 

[dreadlock]

good times lol

it really is a great way to study the plant imo the only way to get the most of out it having grown it before. Why not keep cuts for strains you like..

if i have a new strain, before growing it out, i'll take a small cut flower it in a 1litre bottle with no problems.. just chuck it in the corner of room. you can get loads of pop bottles like that with single colas.. great for experimenting..

this round have 2 x mod scrogs, 1x amnesia haze , 1 x nl5 x haze. along side are 2 cuts of each, flowered at the same time.. expect cuts will be chopped at 75days and scrogs at 85.. if a new strain i'll flower a cut first before fully growing it.. not sure if this the easy way deff feels like the hard way, sometimes feels like the only way lol

look forward to an update with some pics!

talk soon

 

[VerdantGreen]

hi again, i agree topping plants early can be a good idea, leave at least 4 nodes on seed plants though or they may get too shocked form it. i dont usually top plants grown from cuts but seed plants that are growing fast can be better topped. topping does cost you a week or so though as the plants adjusts - so if you are in a hurry then lst is often better. if you are trying to buy time till you have space in your flower area then topping can be useful.
as for fans etc. ideally your air intake should be below canopy and the out-take above, so the air naturally gets pulled up through. other than that i try to blow air above the canopy across. you may be better having the fans on the same side blowing straight across. blow some smoke in there and see where the air is moving

in an ideal world you stop training a few days/a week before the plants top out, and if you had the tips spaced evenly then you get a nice little field of colas growing up from the screen. of course in practice it can be a tough call exactly when to do this as stains can stretch anything from two to four weeks. scrog from seed is trickier than scrog from clone.. and scroging using cuts you've run before gets easier and more precise.

shit i smoked some C99 for the first time a bit ago and its obviously made me talkative. hope some of that makes sense and/or helps.

VG