What's new
  • As of today ICMag has his own Discord server. In this Discord server you can chat, talk with eachother, listen to music, share stories and pictures...and much more. Join now and let's grow together! Join ICMag Discord here! More details in this thread here: here.
  • ICMag and The Vault are running a NEW contest in October! You can check it here. Prizes are seeds & forum premium access. Come join in!

Concerns regarding dangerous contaminants in med mj

chappie

Well-known member
Veteran
Hello-

I'm a medical grower/provider in Oregon where we have no formal dispensary system. My patients find my crop very useful and effective. I check for mold in every jar by inspecting representational buds with a microscope. I take this seriously as I use the stuff myself and am familiar with the dangers of mold inhalation. I also grow organically, although I have no certifcation. I do, however, invite my patients to tour my grow room and I am transparent regarding my methods and resource inputs. I would be open to having my product "professionally" tested, but I don't see that is really an option, especially since my state does not allow me to sell other than a minimal "costs incurred" fee. I don't even charge that much, actually, since my patients are not well-off financially and as we all know growing top-shelf meds is not cheap.

Anyway, I was recently criticized by an aquaintence for "playing doctor" and selling "recreational" grade herb as medicine. His concern is that there are dangerous "opportunistic infections" within.

Here's some of what he said:

"my complaint about medical marijuana is that real medicine is standardized, tested for contaminants, and dispensed in metered doses. It's hard to monitor treatment and progression if you don't know how much you're getting dose to dose. It's hard to stay healthy if you don't know what else you're getting with it. (Opportunistic infections are a known, avoidable complication.)

...

There's not much documented risk of ingesting insecticide residue. There *are* cases of patients dying from opportunistic infections. "Natural" pathogens that have naturally coexisted with marijuana and other herbs for thousands of years, and have naturally infected people. Natural pathogens that I will bet you $1000 are in those bags you've just heat sealed. That's why real medications are standardized, purified, and tested: to prevent legitimately needy sick people from harming themselves.

...

What nobody seems to understand is that "medical" means higher levels of care and more regulations, not fewer. You can drive your recreational car wherever you want, but if you're driving a "medical" car it needs to have more highly trained drivers, standardized medical vehicles, and stricter maintenance schedules. Recreational SCUBA air is not tested or administered with as much care as medical oxygen. I'm actually also in favor of recreational marijuana (and recreational SCUBA, and recreational driving) I just don't like seeing everyone getting it backwards.

"

First of all - can anyone confirm or deny his claim that there are DEATHS attributed to medical MJ? I have not heard of this.

Also, what are the "opportunistic infections"? Mold? Are these not present also on any farmers market produce, chinese medicine, or herbs intended for tea? Are there some MJ specific pathogens I am not aware of?

I have my own resonses to this guy percolating, but I would like to address him with a level head, so while I am cooling off, I would appreciate you informed feedback to his complaints.

I still hold that until such time as there is a decent system in place to handle medical marijuana, the way we're doing it is fine (and will be fine after such systems are in place). I don't sense much real risk among conscious growers - and the real problem is to find conscious growers. The "opportunistic infections" seem to be profit-based growers. While I am not a doctor, and don't pretend to be, I do take the heath of my patients (a term I don't even like, but is standard) is of great concern and I would never knowingly do anything to jeapordize them. Seeing first-hand, however, the efficacy of my medicine DOES renew my commitment to provide.
 
K

kayaN0W

dont think the dude is even worth approaching to be quite honest, unless hes a patient of yours that all of a sudden has these concerns. sounds to me like hes already come to his conclusions anyways.

When i think of marijuana being used medicinally, i simply think of it being used to improve your quality of life, no matter what it is your going thru. I have a good friend that was diagnosed with MS that completely had him immobilized after 3 months of being diagnosed. Took some goodies down to him this weekend and after his 1st hit, he was almost in tears because he "felt like his old self once again", just stuck in the chair of course. It disgusts me that marijuana seems to have to be thought of in a medicinal aspect anyways for many ppl to even begin to give it a chance.

Wish i had some hard evidence that you could provide that would further state the facts that pot is simply natures tylenol, but i dont. Guess this post is just to let ya know to keep rockin on with what youre doing, the big man in the sky aint got beef with it, thats all that matters in the end.

Much respect bud!
 

chappie

Well-known member
Veteran
I found this:

http://www.hempfood.com/iha/iha01205.html

And its about as I expected... people with severely compromised immune systems just need to maintain extra caution in dealing with ANY food or herbal substance, and perhaps baking or irradiating their herb first is a good measure. I still feel his claim about medical MJ being deadly is essentially slanderous.
 

Seismic

Member
I think if you have a patient that has a medical condition which makes them more prone to infections or have a suppressed immune system, it would be better to just show them how to grow their own. That way they can control exactly what goes into the medicine, and in turn what goes into their body. Unless of course they are physically incapable of growing for their own needs.
 

bugler

Member
There is some truth to the thinking of standardization of dose etc. Medical mj doesn't offer that. IMHO it never will. But it's also not needed. Titration of dose just doesn't really matter with mj. Nobody is going to od, and self-titration is dead on simple. The patient just remedicates, not so complicated at all. At least when using the plant, standardization is just irrelevant.

Now for scientific testing vs. treatment, standardization is important. More for repeatability of studies than anything else though.

Can't speak to the infections thing though, outta my league. On the other issues, I think it's just a problem that people have been sold a certain mindset of milligrams, pills, injections, administered by doctors. But when I have a migraine, I just take enough medicine, then I feel better. Anybody who cares about more than that is just being asinine imnho...
 

Lazyman

Overkill is under-rated.
Veteran
Most medicine is created in a lab, synthesizing compounds, (sometimes natural ones) and made to an exact recipe for a set level of purity and dose.

Since plants, with different pgenes and phenotypes, and cultivated in different areas cannot conform to this rigid structure, we're arguing apples and oranges over semantics.

We are just learning which chemicals in pot make us feel different things, and time will increase this knowledge and lead to better meds. Dosages are controlled by the patient, more pain requires more hits etc.

The closest product we have currently are concentrates, but if he wants to argue about bud versus pills it won't lead anywhere productive.
 
C'mon, you can get mold spores from a patch of mildewed grass in the yard! Or in the duct work of some old warehouse, or the auto repair shop, car wash, heck the bakery, etc.... yogurt is mold! It's too bad your friend likes to complain about nothing, if he doesn't like medical marijuana he can just keep on sucking down the oxycontin, supporting Big Pharma and feeding his heroin habit. For many of us Medical Cannabis is far superior to the alternatives presented by modern medicine.
 
T

theJointedOne

a person with a compromised immune system that develops a lung infection can be fatally effected by such infection. mostly this would be attributed to the inhaling of combusted plant materiel infected with mold and or mildew. I know Gray Wolf is a brain on these things, im not so much, but certain spores dan develop into infections which can be fatal.

just some info
 
Won't burning bud with a tidbit of mold (so little you can't even tell) kill spores anyway? Why would it be bad to inhale this smoke or vapor?
 

resinryder

Rubbing my glands together
Veteran
Tell you what I'm waiting to see happen. In waiting to see a med patient sue his/her caregiver for supplying them with sub par buds, buds containing mold or mildew that made them "sick". Don't think it would happen? I've seen 2 different buds come out the "dispensaries" here in Vegas. 1 had a bad case of mold and the other one tasted so strong of prythium(sp) it wasn't funny. Can see the caregiver being sued along with the state for not having any system to enforce over site for those who have been trusted to grow for them.
 

Tripsick

Experienced?
Veteran
Tell you what I'm waiting to see happen. In waiting to see a med patient sue his/her caregiver for supplying them with sub par buds, buds containing mold or mildew that made them "sick". Don't think it would happen? I've seen 2 different buds come out the "dispensaries" here in Vegas. 1 had a bad case of mold and the other one tasted so strong of prythium(sp) it wasn't funny. Can see the caregiver being sued along with the state for not having any system to enforce over site for those who have been trusted to grow for them.

I totally agree. it will happen its just a matter of time. I would be surprised the big companies are not chomping at the bit to say.

See we are the only ones that can make sure we are all safe and take it out of the hands of the good old boys that are more profit driven than us. As we have resources to burn while making our billions..

Or regulations / testing will make it unprofitable for the little guy to compete.
 

hazy

Active member
Veteran
hey chappie, I don't think those links prove jack shit. THey don't say much and what they do say. I mean come on, the dude finds some obscure person who got a kidney out of a dead guy and got sick and they blamed pot? Because of 'weed oil'? And she had not smoked in the last month or so. And since when is mold or mildew a big problem in oil?

The guy is just an anti and nothing will change his mind. He's the kind of person Diogenes spoke of who once they believe a lie, will go to their death hating anyone who tries to tell them the truth.
 

whodare

Active member
Veteran
one argument to end it all.

true medical use of cannabis will not be through combustion but through consumption of edible treats made with an extract that can be tested for and refined to contain specific compounds.
 
Tell you what I'm waiting to see happen. In waiting to see a med patient sue his/her caregiver for supplying them with sub par buds, buds containing mold or mildew that made them "sick".

I'd never knowingly sell something that would make someone else sick, but seriously, a lawsuit? That's part of the problem with our national healthcare system as it exists today. The INSURANCE COMPANIES GET RICH OFF MALPRACTICE INSURANCE!!!!!
And we pay for it! All because there are lawsuit happy douchebags that sue the docs at the drop of a hat. Now the Caregivers would need malpractice insurance! I hope it never comes to that, no one could afford to be a Caregiver, and the price of that 1/8th would be double, half for the Caregiver, half for the insurance co....
 

chappie

Well-known member
Veteran
one argument to end it all.

true medical use of cannabis will not be through combustion but through consumption of edible treats made with an extract that can be tested for and refined to contain specific compounds.

I have to beg to differ here, as oral preperations can be immediately rejected by a poor digestive system (and chemotherapy victims), and can also elicit extremely unpleasant mental effects. Not every med user wants to be floored/sent to the moon. With vaporizing, one can titrate their dose and get instantaneous feedback. To me, that makes measuring of dosage and potency almost irrelevant, while with edibles, a new strain or even a weird branch from the same batch can throw you for a real loop. With vapors, if you smoke too much you wait 30 mins and will likely be fine... with edibles, you can have a hellish 16 hours ahead of you.

I'll never argue that anyone should smoke, but there is a very strong case to be made for vaporizing, imho.
 

DoobieDuck

Senior Member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Chappie and interesting topic you have here and well received, as well as replied to, by our members. I read it yesterday and immediately wanted to lash out a reply, but thought some contemplation, and sleeping on it, by me, might provide you a more relevant answer.
First I agree with Kayanow..this guy has already made up his mind, nothing you say can, or will, make a difference with him. I don’t think there is one death due to Med Mj that has every been confirmed or documented, due to contaminates or mold, I have no clue, I think that’s very possible.

Let me address contamination, I saw a CBS 60 minutes new story just a week ago where one of the world largest pharma companies was producing meds that were contaminated. A whistle blower tried several times to get the top brass in the company to observe and acknowledge the problem, then stop production. They blew her off and, I think, continued production and shipping until CBS showed up to do the story..

That story can be found here
CBS New Glaxo Whistle-Blower Lawsuit: Bad Medicine.

So it’s all about risk buddy, how much risk are we going to allow ourselves to take in order to try and feel better, to get healthier? These risks are in everything we consume and in all industries world wide.
Cannabis as a natural plant/substance, if grown organically, and the proper precautions are taken to process and dry it, IMO, is as safe as anything out there as a medicine. Period!

You also might consider, I take a battery of prescribed medications daily for chronic pain, as well as other serious illnesses. These Meds are determined “safe” by our governments standards…but they do come with a label advising of the "risks", the side affects and many other health hazards one might aquire from taking them. With their prolonged use and in combination with each other..who the *uck knows what the risks or complications might be to me , I'm on my own there?

As far as dosage, MJ patients are usually self doing. They start out slow and find their own level of satisfaction or tolerance. With my prescriptions I’m advised, again on the label, to quit taking it if causes me trouble! See your doctor. Pretty basic info and when one purchases pharmaceuticals then we are somewhat releasing the drug manufacturer from liability as our government has told us what they are producing is safe.

I’d do just about anything to improve my quality of life some days. If I had no Mj and the dispensary had only moldy stuff left for sale, I’d buy it and take a chance, any day with cannabis, over Morphine, Oxycotin, and the other “Safe” medications prescribed to me and approved by our government. It’s a personal choice, you make the call.

Don't get me wrong..Moldy weed is not safe for some patients. But it may be safer for me than regular morphine use?

I hope this helps and we all appreciate all the concerned and sincere efforts by you and most with-in our cannabis community to provide us with the safest medicine possible. DD

Edit: after TheJointedOnes post below. Let's get this strait! When I'm speaking of Moldy weed I refer to cannabis that has slight hardly recognizable mold. Not shit that is covered in it. If anyone is selling you that crap they should be arrested! I use Med Mj in tea so I avoid the dangers of smoking moldy weed. Moldy tea weed has not affected me in any way that I know of. Respect.
 
Last edited:

RoachClip

I hold El Roacho's
Veteran
DD That was one of the best topics I have watched on tv in some time and it opened my eye's to alot of things we as users of medications that have no Idea what's really going on with these companies.
 
T

theJointedOne

ive dealt with a lung infection due to smoking moldy/mildewy bud at a time when my immune system was very weak.

Lets just say I would trade that for anything almost. Coughing up blood and taking steroids for my lungs to recover was not fun. I am more dilegent regarding molds and mildew than anyone i know. i check EVERY single batch of buds i get and check it twice!


im not joking, you want to smoke mold and think its safe just to catch a buzz thats cool, id rather not go through that ever again
 
Top