Colorado "legalization" going to affect prices nationwide?

[Holdin']

Anybody else get a good kick out of most of this thread? Its hard knowing exactly what will happen, and really, I am surprised more of us aren't expecting the feds to file lawsuit when WA and CO attempt to tax and regulate - putting the matter on hold, indefinitely - all the while the other aspects remaining legal such as possessing and growing (which btw, in WA it is still going to be illegal to grow for personal use, aside from medical).

Either way, whatever side you're on it will be very interesting to see how this all pans out, for both states.

Maybe I'm way off here, but I've always imagined that when/if any state were to legalize, tax and regulate that it would be more comparable to the wine industry, not tobacco.

I personally was not a supporter of I-502 here in WA. And that was mostly due to the fact that personal grows weren't going to be decriminalized. I think we all can agree, its a huge step and no matter what the case, its a peace of mind alone just knowing our beloved herb is on its way acceptance all around. Still a ways to go tho.

 

[whodare]

Brings up a good point.


In short.. are we going to start seeing empty prisons in light of the new legality?. Somehow.. I doubt it. This war will wage on all fronts. Too many livelihoods are at stake.. on all sides.

And that's been the biggest hurdle for legalization, fear of the other side and so called 'greed' on both sides

The bigger picture though,
In reality.. legalization is such a small issue in the face of the economic death spiral our leaders have put us in. Things are going to get a whole lot worse in the US in the years to come. Nothing will be getting cheaper, that is for certain as the FED and banking industry will continue to debase our currencies (another great crime against humanity) while squashing the standard of living of all hard working Americans.. regardless of career choice. Inflation is the largest tax. A tax we all are forced to pay.

Truth right there...

 

[unspoken]

This is exactly how I feel!!!!! Amen! Legalization at the state level will just take one of the last true family businesses and put it in the hands of corporate America. Sad but true.

You guys, quit crying because you have to pay taxes. Jesus. I own a business that is not mj related. It is successful, and I pay a lot in taxes. I also get to keep a lot. Don't cry because you're going to have to pay taxes like EVERY SINGLE OTHER BUSINESS.

 

[whodare]

I'll take the income away from these so called mom and pop shops, many of which give a fuck all what they grow with or spray...

I'd much rather people be broke than in jail...

Ask me, been there done that....

Prison is hell, and let me tell you, most states still are locking people up.

How are you supposed to make a living if you can't carry your product? Sorry I need to be able to carry more than an oz.

They shouldn't be locking anyone up for this sacred plant, it truly is a crime against humanity and nature.

So I'll take income loss knowing innocent dealers, growers, and smokers aren't being harrassed by the law, or put behind bars, which I might add ruins families, costs money and demonizes/persecuts quite a large portion of our population...


So sorry if you can't still make decent money off hundred dollar Ozs.


Edit: and think of the hemp plant finally being legalized and all the ecological benefits, personally I think people are being as greedy as these so called big pharma companies, who by the way still need to employ people to work

To the person who neg rep'd this post, fuck you...

Your basically saying you'd rather have hundreds of thousands of people put into cages just so you can make an extra buck, all while hiding behind the meme "it's going to hurt mom and pop growers" or "big pharma takeovers"

Your a spineless douche, and it's no wonder you'd rather see life's ruined to artificially inflate your products value, you'd never survive in the free market...

Now if I knew who gave it to me I'd know who to put on my list of people who support the drug war...

Weare on a weed sit ya know, maybe find another forum to peruse like asshats.com or something.

/end rant

 

[skull and roses]

You guys, quit crying because you have to pay taxes. Jesus. I own a business that is not mj related. It is successful, and I pay a lot in taxes. I also get to keep a lot. Don't cry because you're going to have to pay taxes like EVERY SINGLE OTHER BUSINESS.

This has nothing to do with taxes!! I'll glady pay taxes and I do pay them now. What it has to do with is who controls the business. In this form of legalization it will be whored out to corp America.
Also the people talking about prison: it's a med state. If you aren't stupid u should be able to work with that. Most of the arrests are in non med states and yes that needs to change I just think the mmj movement keeps it in the hands of the people and "legalization" will hand it over to big corporations.

 

[gingerale]

Whored out to corporate America? Haha. When was the last corporate American you ever met who knew how to grow cannabis, not only expertly, but efficiently enough to compete to any degree in any cannabis market? How many Wall Street executives you know that know a damn thing about horizontal vs vertical or proper trimming and drying? When was the last pharmacist, or tobacco farmer you ever met who knows a damn thing about cannabis, other than the rote facts and figures anyone can pull up on Google?

What, you think these big companies can just hire a few dweebs off the Internet to set them up some 1980s style horizontal grows with SCROG screens and bubbler buckets, with a few threads off ICMag printed off for reference....and that will be enough to outcompete ruthless mother fuckers who are coming into this with years of experience, and lots of knowledge that can be acquired in no other way than by having those years of experience? lol.... There isn't a bank account in the world that can compensate for having such a head start and being so mentally prepared for this.

I don't know who the first billion dollar cannabis CEO will be.....but I guarantee he'll have spent a large portion of his life growing cannabis illegally, before starting his corporation. I don't know who's the smartest and best cannabis producer of them all.....but I guaran-fucking-tee, wherever and whoever he is, by definition he's not going to be working for Big Pharma or (lol) Phillip-Morris or any other "existing" big entities.

No, it will be the same as it always has been: just a "regular everyday" guy with a plan and ambition. The winners will be those who understand the entire industry well enough to not only do it blindfolded in their sleep the way it's always been done, but well enough to also see how it will be done in the future in a legal market......which is totally differently than everyone does now. Those people are few and far between, especially in huge soulless corporations which have already driven all those creative and smart people out to make way for obedient drones.

Bottom line is worrying about big corporations is a false worry. If you want good to triumph then fucking take part in it! Go get a job at a new cannabis company, or start your own, and make the place amazing and awesome! You can't argue with it being legal to start a company because that's stupid. Of course people should be free to form corporations, because society benefits immensely from it. So either take part in it and make it the best company you can, or you have no real basis to complain about anything.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

I dont really buy the whole argument that only experienced lifelong growers are the only folks able to produce superior quality...or that quality cannot be produced on a rather large scale. Its great to pat ourselves on the back, stating how hard this shit is.. but its really not.

Quality for the most part boils down to environment, genetics, and general understanding of gardening/horticulture.

You don't think big producers will be able to setup and fully fund the proper conditions and know how to produce quality on a larger scale? Thats naive and wishful thinking at best.



I agree with you that we shouldnt go as far as worrying about corporate takeover, but if legalization takes off you better believe its around the corner. Will we still have our place somewhere in the industry - sure, but acting like only those previously growing illegal in their closets and basements can produce superior quality is silly.

I've got complete newbies right now producing excellent quality by running known good genetics in a perfect environment and following simple instructions. They don't really know what they are doing, but success is easily duplicated. Its just putting the proper systems in place and following a proven recipe. Seasoned growers don't like hearing it, but shit aint as hard as everyone makes it out to be.

To think quality is some coveted secret skill that only seasoned growers can achieve is laughable in today's times of technology and knowledge. Put some horticulturalists in a climate controller setting with excellent corporate funding and backing and watch them grow circles around all of the "rare" expert growers who have been working in basements in a restricted illegal market.

Legalization will open a lot of flood gates everywhere. We'll likely see both the good and the bad of such.


I however do not think that this culture is going to bend over and take it in the ass. We've made it this far..and doubt anyone will be letting big pharma or whomever take things over without a fight. Maybe your right GA, maybe this country will be filled with amazing companies doing amazing things on a legal forefront. In fact, I know your right.. but I don't think it'll come easily. Just as there has been a large oppression while illegal.. we'll fight an even larger oppression now that we'll be standing on a legal battlefield.

Its exciting really..milestones are being moved despite those entities trying to prevent it. I'm totally stoked to see where this takes us next. The power truly is in the hands of us when it all boils down to it. The question is.. do you trust "us".

Maybe this is geographically speaking.. but what happened to the mom and pop hardware stores, grocery stores, etc? How many locally owned gas stations do you visit now a days? Why were many forced to close down when all of the lowes, homedepots, walmarts, etc..started squeezing them out of their livelihoods? When did we stop supporting locally owned companies in favor of cheaper prices, convenience, and larger stock? And why?


Will people in CO starting buying their HPS lights and hydroponic supplies from homedepot.. thus putting the locally owned hydro shops out of business? I'm just throwing questions out there. I'm curious to see where this all goes. Think carbon scrubber manufacturers are going to see a decrease in business? Is everyone in CO putting their scrubbers on the curb to maximize efficiency and airflow? lol


Legalization is great. Monopolized legalization is not.

Did I just hear someone say that WA is legalized, but personal consumers are not allowed to grow their own? If so.. THAT is what I'm talking about.
Obviously many voted for legalization.. but how many will continue to fight after the fact to ensure that rights are not taken away from them in the name of monopolized profits?

 

[gingerale]

I dont really buy the whole argument that only experienced lifelong growers are the only folks able to produce superior quality...or that quality cannot be produced on a rather large scale. Its great to pat ourselves on the back, stating how hard this shit is.. but its really not.

I'm not talking about difficulty, and I'm not talking about quality. I'm talking about ever-increasing efficiency. In the legalized market, dank cannabis nugs will soon be a commodity. That is a product that is widely available at a certain minimum level of quality, where product quality is no longer a significant differentiating factor between the offerings.

Just "being able to train some monkey to produce quality nugs" is not enough, because your competitors are ever-advancing. What happens when everyone has crews full of noobs trained to produce the highest quality dank, the market is flooded with it, and quality is no longer a differentiating factor?

Obviously it then falls on genetics, and just as importantly, marketing. But what it really boils down to in the end, the factor that will make or break a company in the long run: efficiency.

These people who think they can just hire some experienced grower off the Internet and have him train up a bunch of chimps in the old way, thinking they are going to have a place in the industry let alone hope to dominate it, will be the first to go out of business as steadily decreasing prices destroy their margins.

Who better to market to stoners than a stoner? And how the hell could a non-smoker possibly be anything but a complete failure and disappointment at trying to breed cannabis? How can you breed a plant you don't know anything about? How can you market or sell a plant you know nothing about, to a culture you know nothing about, better than somebody who's been in the thick of it for some time?

Those who truly understand the market, and who understand the plant already, and everything about it are those who are best positioned to take over this industry. That's why they will. Not some outside entities that have nothing to do with the plant today. You can't just write a big blank check and jump in dominate a brand new industry that is still evolving and changing like this one. Many have tried, and many have failed horribly. Knowledge is key. What good is a billion dollar production facility, if the other guy has a $500k facility that's twice as efficient?

 

[stihgnobevoli]

funny to hear that it's not about money while the main dissenters to this law's passage keep citing how much money they won't be making. just like that other thread from a few years back... carry on.

 

[PeopleWish]

1. The Feds will most likely bash WA and CO's newly passed legalization efforts.

2. The people who grow gourmet, connoisseur quality herb will be better than ever, because there will be just more demand.

3. Its all relative, the more people who smoke weed the more weed that has to be grown and not many people can grown AAA herb.

4. Ultra large scale ops like 2000k+ers and mega 1,000 ancre outdoor commercial grows will not please people who want true quality, the feeling of locally owned locally grown is always in demand. Like fine wine and vegetables.

5. People like me welcome legalization:
a. Its whats morally, ethically economically exe... right
b. Squashes out the midges who use it for profit
- If your so concerned about profit step your game up and grow top top top quality, youll have nothing to worry about.

6. And by the way no publicly traded company would ever touch a product if it was not legal on the federal level, or any fortune co. for that matter.

7. So stop squivvleing and step ur shit up, I for one am happy with my closet grow thank you very much.

 

[Green lung]

.



You will see a pushback by the DEA in these states.






.

 

[Green lung]

.

 

[high life 45]

People on wall street dont work silly, they pay people to work for them.

Corporations are likely to hire botanists and people who consult for larger scale ag operations. They have figured out how to grow lots of hydro tomatoes, I dont think it will be that hard for them to do the same with herb..

I use commercial fertilizer salts, 2 25lb bags cost me less than a gallon of hygrozyme, It will make 11thousand gallons of nutes solution....

Im sure corporations will hire desert squirrels company.

He seems to have it all mapped out and is cropping 4lbs a 1k.

Who was it that stopped workin in a 500k facility that was aiming for corporate investors...

Im sure it will be just like beer at some point, youll have your average run of the mill, and then youll have your special microbrews.

What corporations do have that few growers have is marketing infrastructure and knowledge to get their prerolled joints into every circle k and 7 11 in any state that legalizes.

Im sure that most of it will be full of pgr's.

The cig companies have had trademarks on the names "panama red' and "acupolco gold" since the 70s. They have been waiting to cash in for decades.

Theoretically corporations have millions to play with, some norcal outdoor growers have this as well, but they dont have the corporate backing. IE marketing and advertising specialists, distribution warehouses etc. Sure pot growers can move a 1000 pounds a season, but what about 10,000 pounds a month.

Corporations can afford to profit less if it means driving out the competition.


Just hope monsanto doesn't get involved and gm hemp and seed up everyones crops. They will probably gm a fem variety so It cant be seeded even if its in the middle of a field full of males. One of the reasons alot of folk dont support legalizing hemp.

Thats the other edge of the sword.
If hemp is commercially grown, it could potentially seed alot of herb and drive the price of sinsemilla upwards.
Back to the 90s prices.

Honestly though I have been up all night helping a patient with cancer go pee and vomit. So Im really delirious, and dont know nuttin about nuttin

 

[JACKBAYBEH]

Obviously it then falls on genetics, and just as importantly, marketing.

That sentence right there ^^^ Not sure how legalization will affect pricing or anything else. But, one prediction I feel confident in making is that STRAIN HOARDING will start to reach epic levels never before seen in the history of canna culture. Strain HYPE will be even more unfuckingbearable to sift thru. And you thought it couldn't get any worse than what MMJ created. LOL just goofing......(well, kinda.)

 

[Al Botross]

 

[ak-51]

Maybe not just with these two states, but when legalization accelerates in more places and starts to develop the price floor is going to drop out. Here is why I think that:

Economies of scale: generally the larger your facility is the more efficient you can produce your product. Pot is not special. The same rules apply to it.

Increasing efficiency through genetic modification. When Monsanto gets in the game THC levels will rise. 11.8 billion dollars in revenue last year. They have the money and experience to bring cutting edge genetic science to the game and it will make a big difference whether we like it or not.

Home grown and expertly cared for herb will lose market share due to increasing marginal price and decreasing marginal utility. Consumers prefer top-quality herb right now because the price difference is minimal. When large scale production of high quality product starts and they drop the price there will be less people who find the difference in quality worth the price. The difference between a $40 and $50 eighth might be worth $10, but when a super-warehouse can price an eighth at $25 with almost identical quality you're going to have a hard time convincing people to play double for a product that looks the same.

Point to another commodity where meticulously tended connoisseur quality product has a significant market share. I can't think of one. We are making our product like Kobe beef. There will always be a market for Kobe beef, but it's probably less than 1/1000th of a percent of global market. Take closer examples: beer and cigarettes. When is the last time you paid a premium price for home-made beer or tobacco?

 

[seaweed]

I think we all got a minute . We got at least a year, but Colorado is on it with states rights. I see a stronger fight than many think will happen. Colorado supports states rights from the gun laws to the weed laws. Colorado also has regulated its self, where as California is a freeking free for all .
Two the big big guys won't play until the federal issue is delt with. As soon as that happens , hello budswager.
Three, people precieve it to be legal and they are gonna blow it up !!!!! License permits or what not. Many people have been shut down for no med license there, but few stopped growing erb. Some of them it allowed to grow more and sell it for more outta state.
Indoor pricing will drop to 2000 to 1800. Just like Canada . Don't know what Netherlands prices are but I bet similar.
Outdoor is hard in Colorado. It is and always has been grown there. But few places have a June to nov grow season, fewer still are dry thors months, fewer still are dry sept and oct. People will grow in there back yards and watch the hail and rain beat it up. Greenhouses solve this , but create new enviormental problems and more cost.
My prediction. Colorado becomes the morocco of the west. Colorado the kingdom of hashish

 

[bigdaddyc9]

To hear someone pissing and moaning about all the $$ he/she isn't gonna make on overly inflated weed prices,makes me ill.I am a med user w.cyclic vomiting syndrome who is getting ass raped for every bag I buy.As opposed to wanting weed,I NEED weed to have a somewhat normal life and at 20$ a gram Im getting ass fucked w/o a reach around!!I grow the dankest but right now my old lady is waiting on legalization before I can grow my own frosty goodness.But to someone like me that struck a nerve.Greed is one of the 7 deadly sins..stop doing it and help out your fellow man.Free the Weed for those in Need!!!

 

[skull and roses]

Ginger ale u crack me up!!! Ya like corp America won't hire professional horticulturists and botanists to grow weed. Give me a fuckin break. Weed is not hard to grow period. I still stick to my point medical marijuAna= weed controlled by people like us and legalization= corp weed. It's just like someone else said how many mom and pop hardware stores or drugstores do you see? None!!

 

[Iron_Lion]

Hoard your genetics and DON'T teach noobs how to grow

If you want someone to grow a good product for you be willing to pay a fair living wage. If you are too cheap or poor to pay someone else to do the work for you then do it yourself.