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Citric acid foliar spray for powdery mildew?

Ca++

Active member
It's Athena. I'm not even checking the price.

This is a competitor
Active Ingredients/Guaranteed Analysis:

14.0%..........Thyme Oil
10.0%..........Clove Oil
9.0%............Garlic Oil
4.0%............Peppermint Oil
3.0%............Corn Oil
3.0%............Geraniol
2.0%............Citric Acid
2.0%............Rosemary Oil


Inert Ingredients: 53% Filtered Water, Soap, 2-Propanol, Vinegar

8x more citric.
8x more Peppermint oil
Athena is then soybean oil, with is replaced here with a wide range of more costly oils, that all have history. In total, 25% more oil here than Athena.

4oz is $30 and makes 8 gallons of spray.
With my atomiser, I'm unsure how far 8 gallons would go. I mix less than a quart, for a couple of dozen good sized plants. $30 will go a long way. That's cheap.
 

Ca++

Active member
Potassium Bicarbonate 1 tablespoon per gallon of water apply as a drench spray once a week start to finish.
The active ingredient in Milstop.



For those incapable of clicking links, I have made a nice collage for you.

PMtrialChems.jpg


Luna Privilege SC 500; MilStop; neem oil; Regalia Maxx; Rhapsody ASO; and Stargus. These products provided average disease reductions of over 50%. ZeroTol, boric acid, and Silamol, often reduced disease by less than 50%

Actinovate® SP (containing Streptomyces lydicus strain WYEC 108), Rhapsody ASOTM (containing Bacillus subtilis strain QST 713), and Stargus® (containing Bacillus amyloliquefaciens strain F727). Chemical treatments evaluated included MilStop (potassium bicarbonate), ZeroTol (hydrogen peroxide), Silamol® (orthosilicic acid), neem oil, boric acid, and the plant defence inducer Regalia® Maxx (containing an extract of Reynoutria sachalinensis). The fungicide Luna® Privilege SC 500 (fluopyram) was included as an industry standard for comparative purposes

Notable here, is the two acid products doing badly. While the Potassium Bicarbonate, did really quite well.
 
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Ca++

Active member
It's Athena. I'm not even checking the price.

This is a competitor
Active Ingredients/Guaranteed Analysis:

14.0%..........Thyme Oil
10.0%..........Clove Oil
9.0%............Garlic Oil
4.0%............Peppermint Oil
3.0%............Corn Oil
3.0%............Geraniol
2.0%............Citric Acid
2.0%............Rosemary Oil


Inert Ingredients: 53% Filtered Water, Soap, 2-Propanol, Vinegar

8x more citric.
8x more Peppermint oil
Athena is then soybean oil, with is replaced here with a wide range of more costly oils, that all have history. In total, 25% more oil here than Athena.

4oz is $30 and makes 8 gallons of spray.
With my atomiser, I'm unsure how far 8 gallons would go. I mix less than a quart, for a couple of dozen good sized plants. $30 will go a long way. That's cheap.
Oh I dropped a bollock. I'm not looking at an Athena bottle, while talking about what's in it. Shish(caboy) showed us the Athena (nice one) and it's
Citric 0.05%
Peppermint 1.5%
Lemongrass 1.5%
Geranium 1.5%

So I must correct myself.
I find the Athena listing interesting, as it puts Citric at the top, yet it's not the largest constituent. Nor in alphabetical order. So why list Citric first. There is hardly any in it. There is hardly any anything in it. You use about 2.5X as much per gallon as Trifecta. Giving the same Peppermint and 25% more Geranium. It's the Citric standing out though, with 16X more in Trifecta applications.

The label I looked at, was Plant Therapy. Thanks flower~power for that.
Soybean 38%
Peppermint 0.5%
Citric Acid 0.25%

I don't see dilution rates, but you can see Peppermint in all three. Two are very oily, With one having gone to town on ingredients, while one slips in Soybean oil.

Then PureCrop comes along.
10% Soybean oil
5% Corn oil.
iu
 

goingrey

Active member

Are you sure this advice is valid for cannabis (/tobacco)? Seems to have oils just like the products you shouldn't use with sulfur.

Might be ok for edible crops but sulfur creates some kind of noxious oxides when burnt. This at least according to the hydro store's marketing spiel for their low temp sulfur "burner" (vape?). :D
 

g0dzilla

Active member
Veteran
Are you sure this advice is valid for cannabis (/tobacco)? Seems to have oils just like the products you shouldn't use with sulfur.

Might be ok for edible crops but sulfur creates some kind of noxious oxides when burnt. This at least according to the hydro store's marketing spiel for their low temp sulfur "burner" (vape?). :D
I personally have not tank mixed yet but I've used the pure crop 1 on incoming clones that have been treated with sulfur and have not noticed any burns.

I have a few extra cuttings I'm getting ready to toss in the trash so I'll try tank mixing tomorrow and report back in a few days.
 

LostTribe

Active member
I had a cut that showed with PM last year. Took fresh cuts for aero and added silica blast to my normal cloning recipe. Havent seen it since.

IPM is 1 part 70 iso 4 parts RO and a drop of sal's suds. Dunk or spray at will.
 

Ca++

Active member
Bacillus subtilis strain QST 713 is now called Bacillus amyloliquefaciens strain QST 713
We see qst713 and f727 go head to head in Rhapsody and Stargus respectively. Both scored right next to each other. Lowering PM count about 65% in the heavily infected plants, kept in poor conditions.

Upon application, you get a good coating for 5 days. After that, with no food source, levels drop back to background in about 3 weeks. This is in field trails, where UV is a big player in the decay of these bacteria. Bacteria that you can buy in tablet form, so can actually sit about a while.
I say background levels, as these bacteria are found on plants outdoors anyway. They are in the soil. In cannabis production, they start appying it in the veg stage, to ensure good colonalisation before the rains come. As yet, I can't see when application stops. Or any indication that it needs to.


I didn't realise potassium bicarbonate is a pH thing. It's top class effectiveness, while the acids were poor, is a good guide to how well pH adjustments work. With 'up' being the way to go, it seems.



I can't ignore that I'm just not finding sulphur in wide ranging modern lab testing. Perhaps I'm seeing things for field applications, and it's for indoor. Though I suspect it's actually of little use if PM gets on your buds, as it's simply not there.
I hope people are not chasing rainbows with this one. It feels archaic.
 

Ca++

Active member
Bacillus QST 713 seems the better term. Papers use both subtilis and amyloliquefaciens names, interchangeably.
A liter of Serenade contains just 13.68g
Usage: 1 to 3ml per liter, depending on issue. Rot is the worst.

They are using this right up to pre-harvest with many fruits. I think they are offering protection to things, even after they have arrived in your fridge.

This circles back round to the fact, that field grown plants, naturally have this on them. Present at levels plants drop back to, 3 weeks after an application.

Just half ounce in a liter makes your concentrate. Then the concentrate is used 3ml/L to make 333L of spray.
That has to cost almost nothing. They sell 100g pouches for a tenner, aimed at soil conditioning.

Serenade is $200 for a 10L bottle. I guess the 137g of QTS 713 is suspended in something, but that seems like expensive water. The bottle says 1.37% and nothing else. Rhapsody is 1.34% and I can't think why you would sell both. Another 10L of expensive water, maybe?

Rhapsody sds excerpts
Skin irritation: No skin irritation (rabbit)
Skin: May cause mild irritation to the skin.
Skin contact: Take off contaminated clothing and shoes immediately. Wash off
immediately with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes. Call a physician
or poison control center immediately

Must of been 'time of the month'
 

Tynehead Tom

Active member
right on @flower~power , hopefully you can save them.
That's the same boat I was in when the pm hit and I did end up losing a few prized cuts before I tried the sulphur spray. Since I used the sulphur spray though..... not even a hunt of pm this year. The natural plants around the greenhouse don't have it either and despite perfect conditions for it to bloom in my veg room right now...... still no PM.
I didn't take any other measures when I attacked the PM , I simply used the sulphur spray protocol
 

gmanwho

Active member
Veteran
@flower~power power , Citric acid works, i dont have pm inside, but my cucumbers squash and lilacs get it.

But i, do a combo, citric acid, potassium bicarbonate and M-pede and foliar. So far best preventive an knock down ive used.

per gallon.
5ml citric
15ml Pot Bicarb
30ml M-Pede

Suffoil x can work to. but i forget the ratio, i wana say it was low cause it can clog the stomata like neem. So like 3-5 mill per gallon

once i know there is no pest or fungal issues, m-pede dunks every other week. if you store the liquid in a cool dark place you can use it for months. Use a fine mesh fish aquarium net to remove the medium that falls into the dunk before storing. Put a small mag pump at the bottom of the bucket to keep everything moving.

i take the plant, flip it upside down to horizontal an shake it over a garbage can to let the loose medium drop out. then place a small plastic bag over the medium. Hold the plastic bag an plant upside down an submerge the plant. This way u get everything, stalks and petioles. Lift the plant in an out of the water. Take note of the air pockets on the leaflet inner margins. air pockets will form there. keep dunking over an over till they disappear. The magic happens at the water to air barrier when the plant is REMOVED from the dunk.

Or if you have tall plants get a kitchen style tall garbage can. i have successfully dunked 5ft plants into a tall kitchen garbage can. trick is u twist the plant into a spiral as you dunk. but plants need to be healthy and cant be brittle when u twist


PM like cold wet high humidity. never let your room go below 70F. Add a heater. make sure your dehumidifier has an autodrain and never shuts off. air flow helps to. pm has a problem setting up with lots of air movement


Another 2 important things, get a ozone generator off ebay to clean the room in between uses. Another great tool is a air purifier with a hepa filter and PCO generator. Photocatalytic Oxidation is a great tool for 24/7 use!! each will set u back only like 70-100 each
 
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