Chemy soil??? What?

[stihgnobevoli]

I've been out for a couple weeks so I am smoking leaf leftover from a previous grow right now. It is hitting smooth as silk, try that with chem leaves.

you guys are fucking crazy or deluded, by the time it gets to the leaves its in the same form as a chemical fert. you guys are just lying to yourselves or sipping koolaid. theres no way the elements change depending on whether they came from organics and were broken down or whether they were pre broken down in chemical form.

 

[VerdantGreen]

guys, spend some time looking after your plants rather than having this pointless discussion yet again. hardly a level playing field when it's posted in the organics section and peeps will only end up fighting and possibly getting banned for it, again.

VG

 

[Dudesome]

theres no way the elements change depending on whether they came from organics and were broken down or whether they were pre broken down in chemical form.

yes ok elements are pretty same. But not the compounds...
When using the word "same" you might want to change it to a word "alike".
how about symbiosis? When symbiosis occures in organic soil - a whole huge mechanism of living organisms start digesting organic matter. There are millions of compounds that they want to process and in those compounds you will find many essential vitamins/elements that the chemical fertilizers will not contain due to lack of technology and knowledge of sience in that part.

Also I have a very good feeling that the NPK,Mg,Ca etc etc are not as active when passed chemically as those that derived from organic matter. That has alot to do with Carbon that the organic forms of nutes will contain and chemicals won't.

 

[Dudesome]

guys, spend some time looking after your plants rather than having this pointless discussion yet again. hardly a level playing field when it's posted in the organics section and peeps will only end up fighting and possibly getting banned for it, again.

VG

I just don't see why this has to turn into a battlefield instead of an interesting and intellegent discussion. I am not trying to convince anyone how Chemicals are bad or anything. I don't have too much against it.
All I am trying is to understand why people use chemicals specifically in SOIL?
Clearly I can see no big advantages and alot of detrimental effect. Adding to that that many do agree with my guessin statement and those that don't can not explain why they don't agree - makes my point of view lean towards how silly chemical+soil combination is.

 

[Sam87]

I just don't see why this has to turn into a battlefield instead of an interesting and intellegent discussion. I am not trying to convince anyone how Chemicals are bad or anything. I don't have too much against it.
All I am trying is to understand why people use chemicals specifically in SOIL?
Clearly I can see no big advantages and alot of detrimental effect. Adding to that that many do agree with my guessin statement and those that don't can not explain why they don't agree - makes my point of view lean towards how silly chemical+soil combination is.

Because this is a growers forum man, lol.

If you aren't dialed into a really good organic system, adding the easy boost of quickly available nutrients can make for added weight and bag appeal.

If you are running a really dialed organic system, then it won't. Once you get your nutrient delivery really tight, you'll only see improvement by switching systems. Think more dissolved oxygen.

Different strokes for different folks. A really tight, indoor organic system is no easy thing to achieve. For those of us with a busy schedule, adding a compost heap, a worm bin, and having to mix soil constantly is a righteous pain in the ass. It's hard enough taking care of your plants alone when you're already working a 60 hour a week job.

People are always going to do their thing. Celebrate the fact that this plant is such a forgiving one, and that we have many options for growing it. No one way is the "right" way, and I think that's a good thing.

 

[CT Guy]

I think you guys are missing the point to a certain extent.

Here's my reasoning on why I would consider using chemicals in soil (though I don't for a variety of ethical and environmental factors):

1. Giant pumpkin growers have found that using a combination of both synthetics and organics have allowed them to surpass all previous world records. I believe I read a study a while back on this as well. I think it has something to do with the fact that you can feed nutrients in ionic form at whatever rate will best maximize plant growth.

2. It allows you to correct imbalances much faster. If the plant needs nitrogen, you can get it some nitrates ASAP, or phosphorus....whatever.

3. It requires less knowledge in growing. Just follow a bottle and learn how to read a few deficiencies and you're good to go.

4. There is a certain appeal to a bottle with a hot chick in a bikini on it. You wouldn't get that at your local feed store when you go to buy alfalfa or molasses.

 

[VerdantGreen]

I just don't see why this has to turn into a battlefield instead of an interesting and intellegent discussion. I am not trying to convince anyone how Chemicals are bad or anything. I don't have too much against it.
All I am trying is to understand why people use chemicals specifically in SOIL?
Clearly I can see no big advantages and alot of detrimental effect. Adding to that that many do agree with my guessin statement and those that don't can not explain why they don't agree - makes my point of view lean towards how silly chemical+soil combination is.

perhaps i got the wrong idea, but to me your first post was both sanctimonious and inflammatory, even though i'm organic through and through.

VG

 

[VerdantGreen]

.........
4. There is a certain appeal to a bottle with a hot chick in a bikini on it. You wouldn't get that at your local feed store when you go to buy alfalfa or molasses.

grandma's going to be very offended when she reads that

 

[Dudesome]

perhaps i got the wrong idea, but to me your first post was both sanctimonious and inflammatory, even though i'm organic through and through.

VG

I am sorry it did. I will try to edit it just abit so it doesn't sound like an attack

 

[VerdantGreen]

I am sorry it did. I will try to edit it just abit so it doesn't sound like an attack

no problem,

i think one of the major factors is that most people think that chem methods will yield more, i try my best to prove otherwise with my grows. also many think that organics is complicated and difficult to do well.
organics probably takes a little more investment in time before the grow - mixing good well amended soil, composting, worms etc.
but if you get the prep right then the grow should go pretty smoothly without too much messing about.
i would prefer to spend time mixing soil because you only have to do it once each grow - mixing up chem nutes every time you water or whatever probably adds up to more work in the end

VG

 

[Dudesome]

CT Guy and Sam87, you guys answered the questions. Thank you very much! Exactly the asnwers I was waiting for.

Ok so pumpkin growers use both organic/chemicals? But doesn't the salt kill bacterias? I wonder how that works!

respect!

 

[Dudesome]

A really tight, indoor organic system is no easy thing to achieve.

YEP! That's one other thing I realized and the only reason why I have to stick to brands up to this moment yet still...

 

[soil margin]

Laziness and ignorance.

 

[CT Guy]

CT Guy and Sam87, you guys answered the questions. Thank you very much! Exactly the asnwers I was waiting for.

Ok so pumpkin growers use both organic/chemicals? But doesn't the salt kill bacterias? I wonder how that works!

respect!

Yes the salts do kill bacteria in high enough concentrations. A small amount won't do significant damage to your microherd though.

Just to be clear, I'm not encouraging or condoning the use of synthetic fertilizers to grow plants (though there are rare instances, like depleted soils in Africa where there's may be a need).

Let's mention a few of the benefits of organics too, just to be fair:

1. Better for the environment! Not polluting our water supply or creating "dead zones" in the ocean from overuse of phosphates or nitrates.

2. Cheaper! Way way cheaper. You could grow for pennies if you want to (and I'm pretty sure JayKush does). Everything you need can be found locally in 99% of cases or sourced from your own garden.

3. Healthier. There are studies that show nutrition levels and brix levels were higher in organically grown produce over conventionally grown veggies (chems). I know a guy who grows for dispensaries here in WA State and he uses Eagle 20 on all his plants for PM. Do you really want to smoke that or any other chemicals?

4. No need to flush. Don't have to worry about salt buildup with organics.

5. You can re-use your soil.

And I'm sure there's many more, this is just off the top of my head. Organics is quite simple. The trick is to get a good biologically active soil mix. This will solve 99% of your problems in regards to nutrients.

 

[supermanlives]

alot of people are lazy and unmotivated. simple.

 

[Scrappy4]

alot of people are lazy and unmotivated. simple.

I don't know if that is true. I remember back when I had a job and time was tight, it was easy and quick to, stash a bottle of dyna grow and bloom in the woods by the beaver pond to water my girls with. And I used MG before that.

But now that I can surf forums like this hours on end, and i can grow legally in my house, I have plenty of time and a shit load more knowledge.

I don't think I was lazy or unmotivated, just had different circumstances is all.....scrappy

 

[Dudesome]

alot of people are lazy and unmotivated. simple.

either that, or they are just unaware...

 

[Dudesome]

CT, yup the reuse of soil is another great advantage I forgot to mention. And the fact that soil only gets better and better with each reuse makes you just wan't to throw all your bottles away.

 

[Ziggaro]

From an impartial observer:
Still looks like a pissing contest

Btw add too much organics and your buds will taste like shit. And with organics I mean literally.
Honestly bat guano doesn't taste that bad for being poop, nonetheless if you add it too late your buds will taste poopy. Don't let anyone tell you different. Or do and do what I did it wasnt that bad but not much better than my GH tester buds.

 

[mad librettist]

pretty sure most guano out there ceased to be bat poop a while ago...


but of course you need to flush with pool water and water-cure the buds to get all that poopage out before chopping.