Chanting Growers Group

[Babbabud]

for my friends

for my friends

Life, light, love
Seed, sun, son
Death, daughter, dna


Hold in reverence
This Great Symbol of Tranformation
And the whole world comes to you


Comes to you without harm
Dwells in the common wealth
Dwells in the union of Heaven and Earth


Offer music ... food......wine.....
And the passing guest will stay a while


But the molecular message
In its passage through the mouth
Is without flavor


It cannot be seen
It cannot be heard
It cannot be exhausted by use

It remains



Om Mani Padme Hum :wink:

 

[Guest]

Gordy P!

Gordy P!

Excuse me Gordy P! But I was responding to all the others who had written a reply........I'm sorry .....I didn't see yours until tonight! However, I did respond to your statement about kitty kats! And you KNOW I love your soul! I have told you 100 times in personal pms, none of which I have gotten lately. And I have also sent two emails to your regular site and I did not get a response on those either. You didn't do nothing is right! With Love, Southern Girl

And I told you that train could go anytime so get ready!

 

[Guest]

Dear Uncle Bog!

Dear Uncle Bog!

All those positions may not be required for enligtenment, however, it should be close to what it feels like!

And I think July is too too far away! SG

 

[GordyP]

I Kid! I Kid!

I Kid! I Kid!

S.G. Mooning me with love means never having to say you're sorry. :wink:

Somehow I always thought Vancouver was in there somewhere around Montreal and Toronto. Makes it pretty clear how much I've thought about Vancouver in my lifetime. LOL Haven't checked the rates from Indy yet, but they can't be much different than rates from Dallas or L.A. Not bad at all. Just who, if anyone, will be taking up residence in Vancouver as I'm thinking right now? Haven't gotten many Vancouver business details and was just wondering what kind of relocation(s) are happening to support that. Wonder how I can write off this boondoggle as a business expense.

To those who know anything about the seasons and climate there (and any re-locating hassels) when is a good time for a U.S. invasion of Vancouver?

Wow, another big dose of vibes in the air tonight! That's two in a row that I've felt them stirring me up inside. Are y'all feeling it, too? A good time to be focused and using this collective karma on good causes.

Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

GordyP

 

[Guest]

What Vibes would you be speaking of GordyP?

What Vibes would you be speaking of GordyP?

Why....GordyP! I don't ever have to say I'm sorry. I never do anything that I'm sorry about. When you are free spirited it just really isn't necessary.

And don't feel bad. I had to look on the map! I had no idea where Vancouver was. That is not a part of the world I have ever ventured to explore.

What vibes are present that make you feel WE should be focused and use collective karma on good causes. Or should I ask what do you think is not focused and creating bad causes? SG

 

[PassTheDoobie]

"What vibes are present that make you feel WE should be focused and use collective karma on good causes. Or should I ask what do you think is not focused and creating bad causes? SG"

What's got our nostrils flaired here darlin? Pick up the phone and call. The person on the other end of the line needs to talk to you.

Just my opinion.....


And Babbabud! Dude I'd love to sit down and smoke a joint with you some day man. As far as I'm concerned you are doing it the hard way, but I know how much you have expended yourself towards mastering yourself. A very difficult task that few could accomplish. I respect you. Thank you. I always love the poems you share with us all.

 

[Guest]

Whos Nostrils are flared?

Whos Nostrils are flared?

My nostrils aren't flared. I'm laughing as I'm as writing. I have been playing around responding to the comments. I truly know not what you speak of. I thought that all that I have said to everyone has been from the heart. I was just letting Gordy P know that I had not responded to him because there was nothing he had written to respond to. I had written a note to everyone, since I had worked and had something to say to all that had written. I didn't want to leave Gordy P out so my note to him was Where the hell are you? Didn't realize anyone in here was so thinned skin. I will take that into account from here on out. Southern Girl

 

[BushyOldGrower]

Vancouver benefits from warm ocean currents but its rainy and cool in winter with little snow at low elevations. In spring and summer the city has beautiful parks to visit and deep sea fishing is amongst the best. You can get some of the finest fresh seafood at their fine restaurants and the prices are nice because US money is still a good value in Canada. We could easily concregate at Bubblemans Melting Point shop where we could sit for hours and share herb. They serve only natural organic smoothies made with fresh fruits and the chef is a master. He makes wonderful salads and other delicious things. This is just one place we can visit and stay as long as we wish.

There are many seedshops in Vancouver where people actually test different kinds of herb as the laws are very relaxed. Possession of 1/2 to 1 oz is just a fine and I see little enforcement as we had our stashes in plain sight as cops walked by the window. They didn't even glance in the place. Why should they care if people are vaping herbs anyways. It's just normal more like in Amsterdam.

I would like us all to go on a charter boat tour of the area while we visit if possible. We could all stay at the Holiday Inn downtown and it isnt that high priced really.

Gordy, Tom and Stonergirl are planning to move to Vancouver in late spring to early summer and my son and his family plan to move there by April. They have found nice suburbs just south of downtown near the water for reasonable priced rentals and they are excited to be moving to such a large city. 1.5 million I believe.

The NorthWest of N. America is the most beautiful place in the world IMHO so in Vancouver we are literally on top of the world. I plan to save the Arborial Forests that run from Vancouver across canada and Asia too. When these forests are gone we are gone so I see this as tending our garden. Canada's Greenpeace spoke with me while I was in Vancouver and would take no money from me.

A lady like us was standing on the sidewalk and she showed me this. Vancouver is the place for me like Amsterdam but its a lot closer and cheaper to visit with the Euro so high compared to our weak dollar. I can go anytime actually so just tell me when and I will be there with bells on and chanting all the way. BOG

Did you see my Vancouver thread in the lounge? It's beautiful there... lotta buddhists.

 

[PassTheDoobie]

Quote for the day:

"How can anyone so wise be so stupid?"

stonegirl/2004

 

[Guest]

Vancouver

Vancouver

Bog,
It all sounds so wonderful and I look forward to the day that we ALL do it. I am with you. Just name the time and place and I will be there. I am grateful for the info and the Holiday Inn works for me. Now I guess we just have to wait for PTD and Stonegirl to pinpoint their timing as to when it will be.
I am very excited to finally meet EVERYONE. And see where it is that we go from there.

And I recieved a great honor yesterday I will share. I got Nurse of the Year with HCA (Health Care Corporation of America) and a scholarship to complete the last of my testing and $1000 bonus. It went into my savings For my trip to meet all of you for you all were a great part of me achieving it. Now I just have to study! Southern Girl

 

[GordyP]

Way to Go, S.G.!!

Way to Go, S.G.!!

Nurse of the Year! Hoo-Ray for Southern Girl! Knowing the healing powers you're able to use from hundreds of miles away over the internet, I think they oughta just forego the rest of the damn testing and give you your due right now (including doubling your salary!). I know how seriously you are with your profession and you've earned a great honor. Good Vibrations!

And Darlin', you just keep writing about whatever's on your mind, in that Southern Girl way of yours. Your thoughts are the spice of the entire thread! I know when my chain's being pulled and have been known to pull a few chains of my own for the fun of it. I'm always your No.1 fan in Indiana and am totally in sync with the drift of your writing (no chain-pulling there).

And PTDoobie, I gotta thank ya man, for tipping me off about Bobby. I don't know where I was going with this. What was I thinking? We're cool now.

Well, time to go watch little flowers become big flowers. Keep Em Green and Growin'.

GordyP

 

[PassTheDoobie]

What a joy it is to be alive! Isn't it something so wonderful as to make you want to cry it is so spectacularly special?!? I cannot believe my good fortune! Am I not the luckiest man on the earth? I must be! I am surrounded by Buddhas! What a joy!!!

 

[PassTheDoobie]

I think it goes something like this...

I think it goes something like this...

When you're down and confused; and you can't remember who you're talking to. Concentration's slipped away, with thoughts of good times, so far away. Well there's a road in the distance love, and the eagle flies with the dove and if you can't be with the one you love, honey, love the one you're with.

Embrace someone this holiday season and re-embrace your feelings of love for your family, your neighbor. As the Beatles would say, all you need is love.

T

 

[GordyP]

Big BUST at my house today! After flowering my six plants for a week now, they're beginning to show their sex and I found a MAN in amongst my girls today! Busted his ass out of there right now and took him to the other end of the house where he now awaits sentencing. Unfortunately for him, he finds himself in the court of the "Burning Judge", GordyP! So far, all pleas sent by the male marijuana plant to the Indiana governor have gone unanswered. Looks like his days are numbered (as soon as I get him flushed, clipped, and cured!).

Female Plants Need Only Apply, Please

GordyP

 

[Guest]

Happy Birthday to Me!

Happy Birthday to Me!

I just realized sitting here that today is my 15th Gohonzon Birthday! That's pretty cool. And you realize how far you can carry and learn those levels of compassion for other living things. Like how sad I'm feeling for that poor male plant caught at GordyP's house and going to face death at the hand of a Hoosier no less. How Buddhist is that? I think that as a group we should collectively file an appeal. That is if it's not too late. Southern Girl

 

[PassTheDoobie]

Happy Birthday SG!

 

[PassTheDoobie]

From Nichiren himself (to be transcribed in parts; one question and answer at a time)

From Nichiren himself (to be transcribed in parts; one question and answer at a time)

How Those Initially Aspiring to the Way Can attain Buddhahood through the Lotus Sutra

Written by Nichiren in question and answer form between 1271 and 1282

Question: Of the eight schools, the nine schools, or the ten schools(1), which is the true school founded by Shakyamuni Buddha?

Answer: The Lotus school is the school founded by Shakyamuni. We know this because of the statement that, of all the sutras “I [Shakyamuni] have preached, now preach, and will preach,”(2) the Lotus Sutra is foremost. These words were spoken by Shakyauni Buddha himself. Therefore, [the school based on] the lotus Sutra is known as the Buddha-founded school. It is also known as the Tendai school.

For this reason, the Great Teacher Dengyo states in his commentary, “The Lotus school, which T’ien-t’ai elucidated, represents the school founded by Shakyamuni, the World-Honored One.”(3) In none of the sutras other than the Lotus does one find a passage concerning [the relative superiority of] all the sutras that “I have preached, now preach, or will preach.” Here, the sutras that the Buddha has preached refer to the various sutras expounded by the Buddha in the more than forty years before he preached the Lotus Sutra. Those he now preaches refers to the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra. Those that he will preach refer to the Nirvana Sutra.. The Buddha thus firmly decreed that, transcending these three categories of sutras, the Lotus Sutra alone constitutes the school that assures the attainment of Buddhahood.

The various other schools were founded by bodhisattvas or teachers in the period after the Buddha had entered nirvana. Should we now turn our backs upon the Buddha’s decree and follow schools established by the bodhisattvas and teachers? Or should we ignore the words of the bodhisattvas and teachers and follow the school established by the Buddha? Or should we entrust ourselves to either course as the feeling strikes us, and uphold whatever sutra or doctrine suits our inclination? The Buddha knew long ago that we would have doubts of this kind, and therefore he clearly designated the sutra to be embraced by those who are truly aspiring to the way in this defiled and evil age of the Later day of the Law.

A sutra says: “Rely on the Law and not upon persons. Rely on the meaning of the teaching and not on the words. Rely on wisdom and not on discriminative thinking. Rely on sutras that are complete and final and not those that are not complete and final.”(4) The meaning of this passage is that one should not rely upon the words of the bodhisattvas and teachers, but should heed what was established by the Buddha. It further means that one should not rely on the True Word, Zen, and Nembutsu schools, which are based upon the sutras of the Flower Garland, Agama, Correct and Equal, and Wisdom periods, (5) but should uphold the sutras that are complete and final. And by relying upon “sutras that are complete and final,” it means upholding the Lotus Sutra.

1) The eight schools are the Dharma Analysis Treasury, Establishment of truth, Precepts, Dharma Characteristics, three treatises, Flower Garland, Tendai, and True Word schools. The nine schools comprise these eight and the Zen school, and the ten schools are those nine plus the Pure Land School.
2) Lotus Sutra, chap. 10.
3) ‘The Outstanding Principles of the Lotus Sutra’
4) Nirvana Sutra. These injunctions are termed the “four reliances,” but they are also known as the “four standards.”
5) Collectively, the provisional teachings preached prior to the Lotus sutra, according to T’ien-t’ai’s classification of sutras. See five periods in Glossary. (From Glossary: five periods – T’ien-t’ai’s classification of Shakyamuni’s teachings according to the order of preaching. They are: (1) the Flower Garland period, or period of the Flower Garland sutra, immediately following Shakyamuni’s enlightenment; (2) the Agama period, or period of the Agama sutras, in which the Hinayana teachings were expounded; (3) the Correct and Equal period, when the Amida, Mahavairochana, Vimalakirti, and other sutras were set forth; (4) the Wisdom period, in which the Wisdom sutras were taught; and (5) the Lotus and Nirvana period, an eight-year interval in which Shakyamuni expounded the Lotus and Nirvana sutras.)

Writings of Nichiren Daishonin pg. 872

 

[GordyP]

Outstanding Information and History!

Outstanding Information and History!

But as usual, it leads to more thoughts and questions from a cadet like me

In the forty years prior to Shakyamuni preaching the doctrine of the Lotus Sutra, expounding the great importance of this alone as the true path to the attainment of Buddahood, he must have preached on topics of other eternal issues. What of these teachings? Do they remain valid and do they compliment/reinforce the wisedom found in the Lotus Sutra?

You wrote of the Nirvana Sutra, which I interpreted as Sutras yet to come, from Shakyamuni himself, sometime in the future. What are these? Have any came to light and been documented and honored since Shakyamuni's death over 700 years ago? How do/will these Sutras come to compare in importance to the Lotus Sutra? Or are they actually integral parts of a living doctrine (Lotus Sutra) which have yet to be completely revealed and taught?

It's written many times that the ways and wisdom of the Lotus Sutra is immeasureably important for those truly aspiring to attain Buddahood. Though total enlightenment is a wonderful prize for those who faithfully practice it's teachings over many lifetimes (the ultimate goal), surely there are other gems of wisedom from the other Sutras which can help to guide us to lesser prizes along the way. How to the various Sutras compliment and/or contradict each other? Though they are not the true path to achieving enlightenment, surely they still contain some wisdom and guidance we can follow to become "better" people in this present lifetime. Chanting, for instance, calms me and provides guidance in my daily life; helps me in my decisions of good-bad and right-wrong. Is chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo exclusive only to the Karma Sutra? (just asking). I guess what I'm saying is; even though the path to total enlightenment can only be found in the Karma Sutra, does that make all the other doctrine false and essentially useless? Though total enlightenment remains the brass ring we are all consciously or unconsciously reaching for, can there be worthwhile teachings from other Buddhist Sutras which still help make us better people now, though not directly contributing to Shakyamuni's enlightenment? Is the Karma Sutra the only teaching which is "complete and final" and therefore the only one worthy of practice? Could it be that the teachings of other Sutras will eventually evolve into a complete and final state and thus become legitimate? If/when they do, perhaps they will only mirror the doctrine of the Karma Sutra?

I found myself sadly nodding as I read Dengyo's commentary from your posting: The Karma Sutra exists for those truly aspiring to The Way in this "defiled and evil age of the Later Day of the Law". Hundreds of years have now passed since the writing of those words and IMHO, here we remain in a defiled and evil age. Hooray for the Bodhisattvas of the Earth for bringing hope and reminding us a doorway exists for all of us to walk through from this age which plagues beings to this day and moment. Thanks for the cool Sunday morning vibes, PTDoobie. I'm focused now and ready for the day (though still full of questions as you can see).

Happy and Knowing Times to Everyone,

GordyP

 

[PassTheDoobie]

Big Smiles to you GordyP!

Big Smiles to you GordyP!

My brother, don't let me spoil the clarity by which Nichiren himself will address what you are asking. Be patient. This whole gosho is many pages long and is formatted by the Daishonin posing very critical questions of, in actuality himself, in order to reveal the truth and then document its validation through the references of the other sutras. He asks the questions that you couldn't perceive to ask in the manner of foundationalized challenge to the superiority of the Lotus Sutra.

But remember Gordy, what you know is something that has occured and is already behind you. If you fixate too much on Mastering that which no longer exists, you may fetter away precious time to pursue and perceive (and not the other way around) what SHOULD be your ultimate goal to reach enlightenment. Who can guarantee their longevity?

But a couple last points in reference to your post:

The Nirvana Sutra came after the Lotus Sutra in the period immediately after the conclusion of the Lotus Sutra into Shakyamuni's physical death. It is specifically the "incomplete sutra" that the Lotus Sutra refers to. It's incomplete because Shakyamuni died. It is a sutra of direct challenge to the keeping of the Buddha's words in that it talks of extinction and is incomplete, and the Buddha specifically has just said the Lotus Sutra to be supreme. Are you listening? The Nirvana sutra is the basis of the Zen school's doctrine's. If you read enough of what the Daishonin says on these subjects, you will understand why as your friend, I say to you again: Spend your time mastering and serving the Lotus Sutra first, foremost, and always. Any truths to be gained anywhere else in all of the universe reside and originate there. Period. If not, then the Daishonin is a liar. In this Gosho, he will with tremendous mercy, explain to you why.

Don't be a man, who is tasked with traversing a valley in a day, or freeze in the cold night, but shall reap a reward of a thousand mountains of gold if successful; that fails in the task due to the lure of stopping to pick up silver laying about on the ground.

Everything that needs to be revealed for the Pacification of the Land Through the Propagation of the Law was, and has been revealed. The manifestation of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth coming into this saha world to save others for the sake of their Master and to fulfill their missions and vows from the ceremony in the air and countless aeons prior to that, is occurring right now. Even in this thread.

In your para 3, (the big one) you shift into starting to mention the karma sutra. I think you meant Lotus Sutra. There is no such thing a the Karma Sutra. There is the kama sutra, that has to do with sex and is not referenced in any of the teachings of Shakyamuni anywhere that I am aware of. These were all celebate priests and nuns. Sex was a nono. So I don't believe, but don't know for sure, that the kama sutra was preached by Shakyamuni.

"Could it be that the teachings of other Sutras will eventually evolve into a complete and final state and thus become legitimate? If/when they do, perhaps they will only mirror the doctrine of the Karma Sutra?" NO

With my humble capacity, I have always tried to understand what the True Buddha says as true, rather than question his voracity. If Nichiren Daishonin says "do it this way", am I to assume I might be bright enough to figure things out better? Don't forget this is a dude that entered the priesthood at the age of seven with the goal of becoming the wisest man in Japan. His mastery of the content of the innumerable sutras was other-worldly. The teachings and commentaries had by then spanned two thousand years.

Listen to what he says and pray to understand it with your heart and not just mind. He knew whut up. Trust me.

T

 

[PassTheDoobie]

How Those Initially Aspiring to the Way Can attain Buddhahood through the Lotus Sutra

How Those Initially Aspiring to the Way Can attain Buddhahood through the Lotus Sutra

(continued)

Written by Nichiren between 1271 and 1282

Question: Observing Japan at the present time, we see that the obstacles presented by the five impurities are very grave, that quarrels and disputes occur incessantly, (6) and that people’s minds are consumed with anger and their thoughts filled with jealousy. In such a country, and at such a times as this, what sutra ought to be propagated?

Answer: This is a country in which the Lotus Sutra should be propagated. Therefore, the Lotus sutra itself says, “I will cause it to be widely propagated throughout Jambudvipa and will see that it never comes to and end.”(7).

The Treatise on the Stages of Yoga Practice states that there is a small country situated to the northeast where the Mahayana teachings of the Lotus Sutra of the Wonderful Law should be spread. (8) And the Reverend Annen states, “This refers to our country of Japan.”(9) From the point of view of India, Japan is indeed situated to the northeast.

Moreover, the Supervisor of Priests Eshin states in his Essentials of the One Vehicle Teaching, “Throughout Japan, all people share the same capacity to attain Buddhahood through the perfect teaching. Whether at court or in the countryside, whether far or near, all alike turn to the single vehicle; and whether priests or lay believers, whether eminent or humble, all can hope to attain Buddhahood.”

The meaning of this passage is that the people of Japan, whether they live in Kyoto, Kamakura, Tsukushi, Chinzei, or Michinoku, (10) whether they live nearby or far away, are endowed with the capacity to attain Buddhahood solely through the one vehicle teaching of the Lotus sutra, and that Japan is therefore a country where high and low, eminent and humble, those who observe the precepts, and those who break them, men and women alike, can all attain Buddhahood through the Lotus Sutra. Just as there are no ordinary stones in the K’un-lun Mountains and no poisons on the mountain island of P’eng-lai, so Japan is purely and wholly a country of the Lotus Sutra.

And yet we find people who, while declaring with their mouths that the Lotus Sutra is inherently a wonderful sutra and that no one could therefore refuse to take faith in it, nevertheless spend night and day, morning and evening, reciting the name of Amida Buddha. They are like people who sing the praises of a particular medicine and yet morning and evening dose themselves on poison.

Or there are those who declare that the Nembutsu and the Lotus Sutra are essentially one. They are like persons who claim that ordinary stones are the same as gems, senior monks identical to junior monks, and poison equivalent to medicine.

In addition, there are many who hate, envy, resent, slander, despise and look down on the Lotus Sutra. The sutra says, “It will face much hostility in the world and be difficult to believe.”(11) It also says, “Since hatred and jealousy toward this sutra abound even when the Thus Come One is in the world, how much more will this be so after his passing?”(12) These predictions of the sutra have come about without the slightest deviation.

Therefore, the Great Teacher Dengyo writes in his commentary: “Speaking of the age, [the propagation of the true teaching will begin] in the age when the Middle Day of the Law ends and the Latter Day of the Law opens. Regarding the land, it will begin in a land to the east of T’ang and to the west of Katsu. As for the people, it will spread among people stained by the five impurities who live in a time of conflict. The sutra says, ‘Since hatred and jealousy toward the sutra abound even when the Thus Come One is in the world, how much more will this be so after his passing?’ There is good reason for this statement.”(13)

From these passages of the sutra and commentaries, one should know the following: In Japan, in one mountain monastery after another, in temple after temple, at court and in the countryside, in both near and distant regions, through scriptural teachings other than the Lotus Sutra, such as those of the True Word, Zen, Precepts and Nembutsu schools, are being propagated, these are not the teachings that suit the country, or conform to the Buddha’s true intention, nor can they free us from the sufferings of birth and death.

6) The Great Collection Sutra describes the last five-hundred-year period, corresponding to the beginning of the Latter day of the Law, as a time when quarrels and disputes will occur among rival schools and the pure Law, or Shakyamuni’s Buddhism, will be lost. This period is termed the “age of conflict.”
7) Lotus Sutra, chap. 28
8) No such passage appears in the extant version of The Treatise on the Stages of Yoga Practice. However, Annen’s Extensive Commentary on the Universally Bestowed Bodhisattva Precepts attributes a similar statement to this work.
9) On the Universally Bestowed Bodhisattva Precepts.
10) Tsukushi is an ancient name for what is presently Fukuoka Prefecture or the entire island of Kyushu. Chinzei is also an ancient name for Kyushu. Michinoku is an ancient name for northeastern Japan. Also called Mutsu.
11) Lotus Sutra, chap. 14
12) Ibid., chap 10
13) Outstanding Principals