Chanting Growers Group
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"However great the good causes one may make, or even if one reads and copies the entirety of the Lotus Sutra a thousand or ten thousand times, or attains the way of perceiving three thousand realms in a single moment of life, if one fails to denounce the enemies of the Lotus Sutra, it will be impossible to attain the way."
(Encouragement to a Sick Person - The Writings of Nichiren Daishonin, page 78) Selection source: SGI President Ikeda's essay, Seikyo Shimbun, June 4th, 2006
(Encouragement to a Sick Person - The Writings of Nichiren Daishonin, page 78) Selection source: SGI President Ikeda's essay, Seikyo Shimbun, June 4th, 2006
"We should never think that illness is a kind of failure or reason for embarrassment. It is not a sign of misfortune or defeat. Through our Buddhist practice, we can transform illness into proof of our victory in life. And the protection we receive will extend to our entire family and all our relations. Such is the unfathomable power of the Mystic Law."
SGI Newsletter No. 6853, SGI President Ikeda’s Conversation Series, Discussions on Life and Death <NEW SERIES>, Learning from Illness, translated May 26th, 2006
SGI Newsletter No. 6853, SGI President Ikeda’s Conversation Series, Discussions on Life and Death <NEW SERIES>, Learning from Illness, translated May 26th, 2006
muddy waters
Active member
pass the doobie: passages like the one above from nichiren daishonin are exactly why i eventually gave up SGI buddhism. at the root of the practice is this unjustified certainty and sense of moral superiority that frankly i find very non-buddhist.
there's absolutely nothing buddhist about threatening people with ill consequence if they don't share your same enemies. just as there's nothing at all buddhist about promising material reward in return for the recitation of sutra. i find nichiren to be a mundane product of his times--militaristic, sensational, egotistical, and intolerant. quite different from the path taken by siddhartha gautama.
the lotus sutra is a profound thing no doubt but the excerpt above from nichiren is more manipulative than mystic. just my 2 cents.
there's absolutely nothing buddhist about threatening people with ill consequence if they don't share your same enemies. just as there's nothing at all buddhist about promising material reward in return for the recitation of sutra. i find nichiren to be a mundane product of his times--militaristic, sensational, egotistical, and intolerant. quite different from the path taken by siddhartha gautama.
the lotus sutra is a profound thing no doubt but the excerpt above from nichiren is more manipulative than mystic. just my 2 cents.
But then again, Muddy
But then again, Muddy
Since you are so well versed in Nichiren's teachings, you would be aware that based on those teachings, I consider you a slanderer of the Law. I would take that position based on your stated disrespect for Nichiren. So I hope you don't mind my two cents that you are very deeply mistaken. You made your comment but don't attempt to be disruptive.
If you are going to say things, please site your point of reference rather than your mere opinion. How can you say that these positions would be non-buddhist when the original exortations to protect the Law in the Latter Day came from Shayamuni himself? Frankly, I don't think you know what you're talking about, but I'm sure that you think that you do.
We agree to disagree. That said, if you want to get debative I am quite capable of supporting the postions that are presented here. What is your point in jumping into a thread about chanting with your comments? I think that says as much about you as anything I might say. Let those that view this come to their own conclusions about what life condition you are in that might reflect your superior understanding.
I bow in obeisance to you as you shall certainly attain the way.
But then again, Muddy
Since you are so well versed in Nichiren's teachings, you would be aware that based on those teachings, I consider you a slanderer of the Law. I would take that position based on your stated disrespect for Nichiren. So I hope you don't mind my two cents that you are very deeply mistaken. You made your comment but don't attempt to be disruptive.
If you are going to say things, please site your point of reference rather than your mere opinion. How can you say that these positions would be non-buddhist when the original exortations to protect the Law in the Latter Day came from Shayamuni himself? Frankly, I don't think you know what you're talking about, but I'm sure that you think that you do.
We agree to disagree. That said, if you want to get debative I am quite capable of supporting the postions that are presented here. What is your point in jumping into a thread about chanting with your comments? I think that says as much about you as anything I might say. Let those that view this come to their own conclusions about what life condition you are in that might reflect your superior understanding.
I bow in obeisance to you as you shall certainly attain the way.
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G
Guest
muddy waters said:
Interesting concepts, it seems that your preception is weighing heavily upon very bad expiriences and outcomes apparently with SGI buddhism. I can empathise with the fact that I have also been let down by other forms of practice and spirituality (not SGI) and its a sad road to forge through. In essence, its always going to be "what is meaningful and real to you" Or "how does this apply to me".
My path led me to Nichiren a couple years back but I never attempted to recite Nam Myoho Renge Kyo until recently. I can tell you this, lately its been difficult to cope with day to day struggles but that to me becomes a triumph after constant empowerment and constant chanting. Chanting works, my proof is my current status outside the internet. Many things would not have come about without chanting, of which I continue to enjoy and share with the world everyday. The most important gift I recieved from the always merciful Gohonzon was and is HOPE. Without HOPE I was nothing, at times the environment leads me to lose focus or sight of things but through chanting I center myself and reciprocate the joy, good vibes, love that comes from my heart unto the Gohonzon back onto you Muddy Waters and anyone else brave enough to recognize and chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo in the latter day.
The world is laden with multiple variations on similar themes. Some apply for others which may not apply to us but that coincides with SGI's inclusion of the entire global community. Everyone is welcome including stoners like us. Not many societies will openly accept everyone this day in age, but among them headquatered near the everpresent Mt. Fuji you will find SGI just as in anytown, world there are daily/weekly/monthly/quaterly meetings of individuals who further manifest their Buddha Nature among other Buddhas and consistently continue to follow the Law.
Muddy Waters or redman's best album I chant gongyo twice a day and the incredible benefits have been flowing, open up the floodgates Muddy and lets reinvigorate your practice. You already know, Nichiren believes that you can start all over right now, fresh, nothing is holding you back! I know sometimes whats good for the goose is great for the gander and perhaps I may not encompass the scope of an individuals personal reasoning but my friends I assure you,I am single mindly intent on seeing the Buddha.
Together we can realize incredible benefit but that is not all I seek, the path to enlightenment to me has become so multi-dimensional and synergistic with my constant application in my daily life that I feel empowered to empower others. Thats not some slogan or lingo I picked up from my studies but something I truly feel inside. Thats how I understand my desire for kosen rufu or world peace, as my desire to share my love and zest for life with all and let them hear me say how incredible Nam Myoho Renge Kyo has been, is and will continue to be in my life. On a cynical standpoint you could also argue this is my feeble attempt to reassure myself I can work past low selfesteem, but do you realize with Nam Myoho Renge Kyo, the glass is always half full? Better yet overflowing!
I am in awe of the those whom effortlessly and constantly show their love and appreciation for life by living as a BodhiSattva of the Earth, even as a true communists of the universe, just as I am. I can only speak from my heart to yours, or from a freudian viewpoint my ego/superego/id to yours, but always realize my collective mass of universal particles is here to help the world realize peace among other fruitful benefits. I only wish to continue working towards positive endeavors and towards the benefit of all, regardless what that makes me in some peoples eyes, the truth is I am happy and I sincerely hope you are too.
Muddy thanks for your post, and for keeping this conversation enlightening and fulfilling. I realize a great amount of joy sharing my happiness attributed to Nam Myoho Renge Kyo!
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muddy waters said:
The reason that promise can be made, is because that promise can be fulfilled. I am sure you have not done this: Read the Lotus Sutra.
http://sgi-usa.org/buddhism/library/Buddhism/LotusSutra/
muddy waters
Active member
easy: thanks a lot for your invitation but i'm very happy where i'm at, spiritually. the lotus sutra and many other divine texts have informed my consciousness and i am better for having tried to absorb all of them. sadly, nichiren buddhism is highly exclusive of other spiritual practices including other forms of meditation, such as zen. this is unfortunate because i feel the depth of human wisdom and spirituality knows no segregation.
pass: no hard feelings. i just noticed you've posted hundreds of pages of SGI material and well, i know a thing or two about it having grown up in it and practiced for several years. contrary to your assumptions i've read burton watson's translation and pretty much everything ikeda has published in english about the sutras. i find it all extremely codified, alternately beautiful and obtuse, at times profound and at times rather simple. i don't think this is an uncommon reaction for a 20th century westerner reading what was written in india or nepal 2000+ years ago.
however i wasn't commenting on the lotus sutra, but rather on nichiren's writings. all i meant to convey was that his zeal and conviction, while they may be invigorating to you, his followers, can be quite a turn-off to those who doubt claims of "the one true" anything.
frankly nichiren sorta reminds me of a 12th century japanese pat robertson, threatening society with violence and catastrophe if it should decide not to follow his lead. you may think that being 'in the latter day of the law' justifies that; i don't.
pass: no hard feelings. i just noticed you've posted hundreds of pages of SGI material and well, i know a thing or two about it having grown up in it and practiced for several years. contrary to your assumptions i've read burton watson's translation and pretty much everything ikeda has published in english about the sutras. i find it all extremely codified, alternately beautiful and obtuse, at times profound and at times rather simple. i don't think this is an uncommon reaction for a 20th century westerner reading what was written in india or nepal 2000+ years ago.
however i wasn't commenting on the lotus sutra, but rather on nichiren's writings. all i meant to convey was that his zeal and conviction, while they may be invigorating to you, his followers, can be quite a turn-off to those who doubt claims of "the one true" anything.
frankly nichiren sorta reminds me of a 12th century japanese pat robertson, threatening society with violence and catastrophe if it should decide not to follow his lead. you may think that being 'in the latter day of the law' justifies that; i don't.
G
Guest
muddy waters said:
I get a huge amount of motivation when I check in this thread. Thanks for checking in again muddy you have kept in interesting to say the least. Is it safe to assume you have a Gohozon in your home? I will be chanting gongyo specifically for the purpose of helping you find your way back to your Gohonzon. Afterwards I will do gongyo again as my regular evening prayers rejoicing in todays events/great news!/appreciation/good wishes/continued growth/ more wisdom/ courage to overcome all obstacles/ fortitude/ and for all my other personal prayers of which this thread and its participant are also due boku respect and grateful reflection.
To be Alive is such a great gift!
Like the ROAR OF A LION, NAM MYOHO RENGE KYO!
Bonzo said:
Don't worry Bonz we're both in the same boat but listening and ( probably more importantly) trying to learn is all we need to do !
Peace
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Delta9-THC said:
Bonz,DG,Delta...I am with you guys..I dont understand a majority of it either but I have seen with my own eyes the changes it has made in peoples lives that I'm involved with...myself included....I know that Babba wouldnt introduce something into our lives that wasnt good, I trust him with my life and he hasnt let me down yet, and believe me I've done some really dumb things....so I believe that my hubby will keep me safe and all I have to do is believe and chant everyday...so thats what I do
hope this makes some kind of sense...heheh I think its the wine talking
nam myoho renge kyo
Understanding
Understanding
We are all the same you guys and we all feel these same feelings. The best thing I can tell you guys and the best thing you can do is CHANT. Have faith and chant. You begin to chant you begin to understand. They go hand in hand. As you show your faith things will begin to unveil themselves to you. Then study will begin... which reading these threads are great study and PTD supplies us with great post to keep us on track. So the first thing is CHANT ... whether its in the shower or when your driving or walking or whatever just start chanting from the heart and the rest will begin to get clearer. We are so lucky to have this very special and very protected forum to share this in .
nam myoho renge kyo
Understanding
We are all the same you guys and we all feel these same feelings. The best thing I can tell you guys and the best thing you can do is CHANT. Have faith and chant. You begin to chant you begin to understand. They go hand in hand. As you show your faith things will begin to unveil themselves to you. Then study will begin... which reading these threads are great study and PTD supplies us with great post to keep us on track. So the first thing is CHANT ... whether its in the shower or when your driving or walking or whatever just start chanting from the heart and the rest will begin to get clearer. We are so lucky to have this very special and very protected forum to share this in .
nam myoho renge kyo
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G
Guest
Gosho Excerpt:
"However great the good causes one may make, or even if one reads and copies the entirety of the Lotus Sutra a thousand or ten thousand times, or attains the way of perceiving three thousand realms in a single moment of life, if one fails to denounce the enemies of the Lotus Sutra, it will be impossible to attain the way."
Encouragement to a sick person,
(The Writings of Nichiren Daishonin, pg# 78)
Written to Nanjo Hyoe Shichiro on 13 December 1264 from Kamakura
http://sgi-usa.org/buddhism/library/Nichiren/wnd/concord/pages.view/78.html
Daily Encouragement:
Death will come to each of us some day. We can die having fought hard for our beliefs and convictions, or we can die having failed to do so. Since the reality of death is the same in either case, isn't it far better that we set out on our journey toward the next existence in high spirits and with a bright smile on our faces-knowing that in everything we did, we did the very best we could, thrilling with the sense "That was truly an interesting life"?
Lectures and articles about Nichiren Buddhism: http://sgi-usa.org/buddhism/
__________________________________________________________________
Chant to make the impossible possible!
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo!
"However great the good causes one may make, or even if one reads and copies the entirety of the Lotus Sutra a thousand or ten thousand times, or attains the way of perceiving three thousand realms in a single moment of life, if one fails to denounce the enemies of the Lotus Sutra, it will be impossible to attain the way."
Encouragement to a sick person,
(The Writings of Nichiren Daishonin, pg# 78)
Written to Nanjo Hyoe Shichiro on 13 December 1264 from Kamakura
http://sgi-usa.org/buddhism/library/Nichiren/wnd/concord/pages.view/78.html
Daily Encouragement:
Death will come to each of us some day. We can die having fought hard for our beliefs and convictions, or we can die having failed to do so. Since the reality of death is the same in either case, isn't it far better that we set out on our journey toward the next existence in high spirits and with a bright smile on our faces-knowing that in everything we did, we did the very best we could, thrilling with the sense "That was truly an interesting life"?
Lectures and articles about Nichiren Buddhism: http://sgi-usa.org/buddhism/
__________________________________________________________________
Chant to make the impossible possible!
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo!
The Birth of Tsukimaro
I received the message that your baby was born. Congratulations! It is especially significant that today is the eighth day of the month. Not only have you had your baby, but on such an auspicious day! The fulfillment of your wish is now complete, just like the tide at the high water mark or the blossoming of flowers in a spring meadow. Thus, I have wasted no time in giving her a name. Please call her Tsukimaro.
The Great Bodhisattva Hachiman, the sovereign deity of this country, was born on the eighth day of the fourth month. Shakyamuni Buddha, the lord of this saha world, was also born on the eighth day of the fourth month. Your baby girl was born on the eighth day, though in a different month. She could well be the reincarnation of Shakyamuni or Hachiman. Ordinary man that I am, I, Nichiren, have no way to tell for certain, but I am convinced that this auspicious birth is attributable to the mystic agent1 I gave you. How happy you both must be! In celebration, you have kindly sent me rice cakes, sake and one string of coins.2 I also reported this to the Gohonzon and the Ten Goddesses.
When the Buddha was born, there were thirty-two auspicious phenomena,3 as is recorded in a book called Shusho no Iki.4 Shakyamuni Buddha took seven steps immediately following his birth, opened his mouth and uttered the words, expressed in sixteen Chinese characters: "Throughout heaven and earth, I alone am worthy of respect. The threefold world is a place of suffering from which I shall save all people." Tsukimaro must have chanted Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with her very first cry at birth. The Lotus Sutra speaks of "the true entity of all phenomena."5 T’ien-t’ai says, "Voices do the Buddha’s work."6 The deaf cannot hear the thunder, and the blind cannot see the light of the sun and moon. But I, Nichiren, am quite certain that the Ten Goddesses must be together side by side, giving the baby her first bath and watching over her growth.
Let me heartily congratulate you. I can imagine your joy. I have respectfully reported this to the Ten Goddesses and to the Sun Goddess. I am too excited to write any more. I shall be writing you again.
Respectfully,
Nichiren
I received the message that your baby was born. Congratulations! It is especially significant that today is the eighth day of the month. Not only have you had your baby, but on such an auspicious day! The fulfillment of your wish is now complete, just like the tide at the high water mark or the blossoming of flowers in a spring meadow. Thus, I have wasted no time in giving her a name. Please call her Tsukimaro.
The Great Bodhisattva Hachiman, the sovereign deity of this country, was born on the eighth day of the fourth month. Shakyamuni Buddha, the lord of this saha world, was also born on the eighth day of the fourth month. Your baby girl was born on the eighth day, though in a different month. She could well be the reincarnation of Shakyamuni or Hachiman. Ordinary man that I am, I, Nichiren, have no way to tell for certain, but I am convinced that this auspicious birth is attributable to the mystic agent1 I gave you. How happy you both must be! In celebration, you have kindly sent me rice cakes, sake and one string of coins.2 I also reported this to the Gohonzon and the Ten Goddesses.
When the Buddha was born, there were thirty-two auspicious phenomena,3 as is recorded in a book called Shusho no Iki.4 Shakyamuni Buddha took seven steps immediately following his birth, opened his mouth and uttered the words, expressed in sixteen Chinese characters: "Throughout heaven and earth, I alone am worthy of respect. The threefold world is a place of suffering from which I shall save all people." Tsukimaro must have chanted Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with her very first cry at birth. The Lotus Sutra speaks of "the true entity of all phenomena."5 T’ien-t’ai says, "Voices do the Buddha’s work."6 The deaf cannot hear the thunder, and the blind cannot see the light of the sun and moon. But I, Nichiren, am quite certain that the Ten Goddesses must be together side by side, giving the baby her first bath and watching over her growth.
Let me heartily congratulate you. I can imagine your joy. I have respectfully reported this to the Ten Goddesses and to the Sun Goddess. I am too excited to write any more. I shall be writing you again.
Respectfully,
Nichiren
I have a lot to say but not enough time to say it!
I have a lot to say but not enough time to say it!
For those of you that are sending my wife and the babies Daimoku, Thank you!
The Gemini Twin doobie sisters are out and back in this Saha world. One came in at six pounds, 2 oz. and the other six pounds, nine oz. Pretty good sized babies for twin girls! Nam-myoho-renge-kyo!
Thank you to all that have expressed their concern and support! Mother and babies are all healthy and doing fine, with no complications what-so-ever! I'll be busy, but I'll be back as soon as possible.
Muddy! I'll get back to you too. In my opinion, your story and the understanding of Nichiren's teachings you've expressed have more holes in them than a spaghetti strainer. I wish I had time to respond to them now, but I just don't.
Great posts you guys! Take care all! I'll be back at you soon!
Deepest respect,
Thomas
I have a lot to say but not enough time to say it!
For those of you that are sending my wife and the babies Daimoku, Thank you!
The Gemini Twin doobie sisters are out and back in this Saha world. One came in at six pounds, 2 oz. and the other six pounds, nine oz. Pretty good sized babies for twin girls! Nam-myoho-renge-kyo!
Thank you to all that have expressed their concern and support! Mother and babies are all healthy and doing fine, with no complications what-so-ever! I'll be busy, but I'll be back as soon as possible.
Muddy! I'll get back to you too. In my opinion, your story and the understanding of Nichiren's teachings you've expressed have more holes in them than a spaghetti strainer. I wish I had time to respond to them now, but I just don't.
Great posts you guys! Take care all! I'll be back at you soon!
Deepest respect,
Thomas
G
Guest
Great message!
Great message!
Congrats, and take your time besides its just about summer in the Northern Hemisphere...
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo!
Great message!
PassTheDoobie said:
Congrats, and take your time besides its just about summer in the Northern Hemisphere...
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo!
Congrats on the gemini babies! Glad to hear mom and the little ones are doing just fine! Sending lots of love to you all!
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