CFLs vs. small HPS/MH setups

[TORO!]

I have about 150w of CFLs right now and they are really easy to install and keep cool. I have them plugged into socket adapters with 4 plugged into one power strip and then a couple plugged into another for around 150w. This method is pretty slim and a good shape for a PC case since is is long and distributes light evenly. also stays cool with a fan on them.

now i'm wondering if there is any reason to switch to a 150w HPS setup instead. are there any advantages? I don't know how much space I would need to mount it but vertical space is a big concern. plus since they are shorter i wonder how even the lighting is for a narrow longer grow space like a big computer tower.

 

[jrw]

When above ~100W you get more lumens pr watt using HPS.

You get good penetration from HPS as well, so I'm not sure it's a problem to have one source of light, rather than a blanket-like light-source with CFLs or tubes.

If you got the space and the ventilation for it, go for HPS

 

[TORO!]

another thought was trying to find some nice small 13"-16" T5 or biax T5 fixtures that i could cram in side by side on the top for really intense slim lighting.

 

[jrw]

What's biax T5 fixtures?

 

[FreezerBoy]

HPS is in the red spectrum. They're designed to stretch out the plant. With such a limited vertical space, you should read up on CMH bulbs.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=72215

http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmrx7.htm

 

[TORO!]

wow the CMH look great.

i think dual 100w CMHs facing each other in a pyrex baking cool tube with one fixture on either side of the grow chamber with one fan moving air through on either end. the front fan would intake through the front of the case and blow straight out the back of the grow chamber and outside the case keeping the hot air on a separate circuit.

now in the back of my lian li full tower i have a power supply at the bottom to run my fans and shit and then i have my air pump on top of it and i will put in the timer, power strip, and carbon filter above it.

 

[BonsaiBud]

How about a 150 watt CMH 4K Protected mounted above a plate of tempered glass.
You can just get one of those magnetic pulse-start Howard ballasts and mount it in an ammo box. All you need is a drill, some self-tapping metal screws, good grounded cord, and some 16g stranded wire 600 volt wire, a ceramic medium base socket (regular light bulb socket), and some nice 1/2 inch plastic wire conduit pipe and fittings to connect the ammo-ballast box to your PC case. Don't forget to get some of those grommets for where your power cord goes into the metal ballast box. You are prolly only looking at 25 watts heat from the transformer, so you might get away with no vent holes if the ammo box is pretty roomy and sheds the heat well. Might do a 250 and put a "thermal chimney" on it (2 foot, 2" wide conduit pipe out the top with a screen air intake. But for a 250 size, I could just buy one from HTG and skip the DIY fun.


This is my 100 watt.
Just fired this baby up today. It is INSANE!
I've got mine in a fixture with 1/8" tempered glass.

I would tell you to get two 70 watters for better coverage inside the PC case, but that just doubles all your costs.

 

[TORO!]

ya im really looking at doing two 100s

these bulbs seem crazy

i need everything inside the pc so it is stealth. so are there any good small ballasts that can run two 100 watts?

 

[BonsaiBud]

Now, for your reflector:
Just get a cheepo "budget grow" or some crap. Might even come with socket...no, sorry, mogul base: won't work for you. Anyway, just get the cheapest pebblized aluminum reflector you can find on the web and cut it down to size with some tin snips. Then, bend that sucker until it fits in there and max out your garden's coverage.

 

[FreezerBoy]

Wish I could be more helpful. The 250 and 400 use standard Mogul sockets and reflectors. The smaller ones ... not so much. Best I can say is the model I linked to uses an M142 or M102 or M81E Ballast (listed under ANSI code) and uses an RX7 base in an enclosed fixture only. I have no clue where to find the fixture.

......edit.....
Boy, did Bonsai beat me to the punch. I gotta learn to type faster

 

[BonsaiBud]

TORO!

Yeah, you can get the Philips/GE electronic ballasts that they make specifically for the CMH, but they run something like $200 each. It is insane. You could cram the ballast in the top of the PC case up stream of the bulb, Might work. But, There is no way you can get 2 bulbs and 2 magnetic ballasts in a PC case. No room for anything else.

 

[BonsaiBud]

Sun System stopped makin 'em

Sun System stopped makin 'em

I got an old Sun System fixture 100 watt MH magnetic with a good 'ole ignitor. I just screwed in the bulb, slid the glass in, and STRIKE!

But, sorry for you: Sun System stopped making those all-in-one lamp hoods many years ago. Mine is 10-year-old new-in-box.

TORO!:
Here is an idea: find a junked APC; the bigger the better. Gut it. Put your transformer(s) in there and disguise the lamp cord with a a 3 or 4 foot piece of black heat shrink tubing. Any good electronics supply should have big, long pieces of heat-shrink tubing.

 

[BonsaiBud]

My APC has a fat "com" cable so I can read my recent power spikes/dips with my computer. That is what I was thinking you could decoy as. OR, you just convert the computer's power cable to a lamp cable. Now, before something some idiot comes along, or you have a stoned-moment, you need to get a 6kV Lamp cord and socket. It will look normal when plugged up, but there is no way anything else will get pluged into your "special" plugs. If anyone unplugs your computer and asks about the funny plug, just tell them you got your computer in Eastern Europe and it uses a special APC to provide the power. If you are really good, you will put an itty-bitty computer in there as well...the Israelis made some 2" cube computers. Slow, but it would make your PC grow room double up as a slow computer.

 

[TORO!]

hmm so any ideas on good fixtures? i want to run two 100s or i guess a 150 or even 250 if i could fit and handle it. maybe i'll bolt two PC's together and do the 250 if i can get a good reflector.

 

[TORO!]

found these $30 100w ballast kits

http://cgi.ebay.com/100-WATT-HIGH-P...ryZ42225QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem


so i could get two of these and mount them in one box to run two 100w CMH bulbs. need info on a socket and cool tube though.

EDIT:

so i can't make new posts because it says only 10 per day.


ok so what do i need to do for a 150? can you point me to where the best place to order one from is? i need the bulb, reflector, then to get that glass.

if i bolt two cases together you think i could pull off a 250?

i think that could be a sweet setup. then i can even add a mini co2 system in and get full use of the reflector so i want to find the most narrow one i can. also the 250w bulbs are longer and look like they would give the double case excellent lighting.

edit 2:

think i want to get this and then upgrade to a 250w CMH

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-250-watt-HP...ryZ42225QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

looks like it would be perfect for a double wide cab. then i'll get a glass lens cut and have 2 120mm fans on each side in an inline push/pull config for cooling. this is going to be a sweet setup. i'm only worried that two pc cases together will be suspicious. i already have two comps under my desk so three might be a little suspicious. i was considering downgrading my desktop to a small form factor system that i can hide so i can compensate.

 

[BonsaiBud]

Na dude, its DIY all the way for us small-scale folk. I've got cabs that are 18" deep by 36" wide and the only one out there that will fit mine is the Super Sun.

 

[BonsaiBud]

Nope. pulse-start metal halide ballasts for the little ones (50,70,100,150). Advanced Tech has the Howards: all but a 50 size. Check your local electrical supply houses. Still, getting the ballast is the easy part. Forget a cool tube. Just get a budget-grow reflector and cut it down to size and bend it to focus. The small CMH bulbs carry an "explosion hazard" so you need to put them behind strong glass. Just measure your case to the 1/16" and head down to a glass shop and ask for tempered. You might cut costs by getting that security glass with the wire in it. In that case, don't get the protected bulb. BUT if you run two bulbs without a small piece of safety glass separating them (you can't, it would block air flow); one bulb blows...takes the other one out with it. You need 2 new bulbs. Even the protected ones might blast out the end and if you have them lined up axially, one could take the other out. So, if you do run two 100s, then get the protected for an extra $10 each and just get old-fashioned ceramic sockets and screw them to the SIDE of the case. That way, if one blows, the safety jacket will direct the blast out the ends and the other bulb should stay safe. Now, if you cost it out, a single 150 is EXACTLY 1/2 the cost of twin 100s. Oh, and you need to get Dieselryder from the attitude seed bank at .co.uk or dope-seeds dot com has them two. Thats what I'm getting when I get my next paycheck. I hope they aren't sold out. I'm pretty sure all the Lowlife strains are bred to be bigger AFs, so stick with Joint Doctor's LR2 (dank, I can tell you) or his new Dieselryder.

Don't obsess and waste money maximizing your computer case. Just get it done and order up some AFs stat!

My LR2s came just 4 days after I clicked "submit". I busted my ass all weekend cutting metal and taping up HVAC and light traps to get my first growbox done (version 1.0). I didn't let myself germ them until their home was at least up to "veg". Can Filter came later...not much later. They began to stink at week 4.

 

[FreezerBoy]

found these $30 100w ballast kits

http://cgi.ebay.com/100-WATT-HIGH-P...ryZ42225QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Stop right there. NO hps ballast for small CMH bulb!!!!

Whatever bulb your looking at, check the ANSI code for the ballast.

 

[TORO!]

what about a 250w setup in a double tower case?

 

[Mr_Micro]

Hey TORO!

Even in a double tower case with cool tubes, massive ventilation, and all that jazz I don't think there is any way to run a 250 watt HPS without turning your box into an oven. Even if you had one of those fancy water cooled cool tube systems I don't think you could pull it off.

The maximum you could fit in a double tower is going to be a 150 watt HPS or CMH, and even then you're going to have a real challenge trying to keep your temps low enough to grow anything in there.

My suggestion is, if you really want to go the HID route, is a big server case (24" or taller) with either a cool tube or a 5/32" glass heat shield completely sealed off from the rest of the box with it's own intake and exhaust fan (at least 50 cfm). Once you have that set up you should be able to run either a 70 watt HPS or or a 100 watt CMH.
Mind you I've never tried a CMH setup in a PC case, but I know they do run a bit cooler than a HPS so you might be able to get away with a 100 watt setup.

For your stealth growing needs I'd check out the design of "The Nanomachine" PC case that I have a link to in my signature. Mind you that's a very small scale version, but you could easily build it on a larger scale with a glass heat shield between the light and the growing chamber and a separate ventilation system for the light. It will also allow you to store the ballast in the rear chamber of the case away from the growing section where it can be easily ventilated and not raise the heat in your growing chamber. It'll take a little creativity, but that's the style of box I'm planning on building for my next grow. It'll ultimately be set up with a 70 watt HPS or CMH, not sure which yet though.


As far as the whole CFL vs HID thing goes... well, my buds have always turned out better with small HPS lights (50 and 70 watt) than they have with two or three 42 watt CFLs. But my best results I've ever had came from a SWC grow with a 50 watt HPS combined with a 42 watt CFL in a PC case. Using CFLs alone will still give you great buds, but they'll probably be a bit airier than HPS and less trich coated as well. The upside of CFLs though is that you can pick and choose your spectrum, so by using blue light in veg you can get much shorter stockier plants than you could with a HPS (which will cause them to stretch a bit). A CMH may take care of this issue, but I've yet to try one for myself so I cant say for certain right now.


Anyhoo, hope that helps and gives you some stuff to think about when planning your stealth box