Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[someotherguy]

high all, just gettin' set to wire up my new S-51
magnetic, multi-tap ballast and i'm looking at the
wiring diagrams that came with it and they have
3 different ways to wire it up, anyone have a link
that might help clarify things for me?

i just finished swapping out the cord's for the hood,
a Super Sun with a male end i assume fits one of
their ballasts, in any event i took it out and replaced
it with a standard male plug, one i took out of one
of my, now retiring, 150's.

anyway, any help will be greatly appreciated, i need
to flip something, lol, i'm jonesing for lookin' at my
buds! ...i need some smoke too, lol.

peace, SOG

btw, i'm taking lots of pics to post up after i finish,
assuming i don't burn down the house, lol.

 

[guanito]

each wire is clearly marked.

 

[someotherguy]

i'd like to publicly apologize to guanito as i spoke
before his pic loaded on my screen.

...so i'd also like to thank you publicly as well.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

You didn't tell us what voltage you were to hook this up to. You have a multi tap ballast which means there are various ways to hook it up, depending on what voltage you are using.
I would assume you are going for 110voltAC, but who knows?

FWIW, the information you seek is both on some paper that came with the ballast, and on the ballast itself. You just have to know how to read it. It's there for you already. Take a good look at what is provided and you may just realize it's all right there.

Also, a simple search will produce several resources to help you out.

 

[someotherguy]

You didn't tell us what voltage you were to hook this up to. You have a multi tap ballast which means there are various ways to hook it up, depending on what voltage you are using.
I would assume you are going for 110voltAC, but who knows?

yeah, i guess i should have said i'm in the US so i'll
be wiring it for 110.

FWIW, the information you seek is both on some paper that came with the ballast, and on the ballast itself. You just have to know how to read it. It's there for you already. Take a good look at what is provided and you may just realize it's all right there.

Also, a simple search will produce several resources to help you out.

...also, i know there are several ways to wire it up,
in fact, the papers you speak of come with 3 very
different ways to wire it, which is what led to my
confusion.

as to what's on the core itself, well, my electrical
training was in electronics and that was in the
USAF back in '73 so memory fades, lol, i still kinda
remember how electrons flow, i even remember
the old poem i learned as a way to remember Ohm's
Law, lol.

anyway, i decided to reach out for help here because
i assumed one of my fellow growers might have done
a tutorial on the subject. you yourself have done several
how-to's on other topics for which i am greatful and
to which i often refer others, especially your thread
'Understanding Air-Flow', an excellent thread that i
send people to all the time.

in any event, i'm thinking i'll be able to figure it out
with that pic guanito posted so i hope to have it up
and running within the next couple days.

thanks again guanito!


peace, SOG

 

[guanito]

my pleasure!

 

[Shamharoth]

Hello i'm new here, so first let me thank you all for this thread !
I'm planning on getting a 250w cmh and i need some info :
I think i'll be buying the ballast listed on page 5 of this pdf http://www.etisa.com/pdf/ual.pdf
UAL TT/CL1 VS HM 250w
TT stands for Thermal protection and cycling Timed ignitor. So the question is : is the timed ignitor (described on the last page of the pdf) useful in the case of a short power outage ? Or will I must buy a timer for preventing the lamp from starting for 10-15min ?
Also, will a 125mm 200m3/hour sunon basically blowing on the lamp be sufficient to cool it ? (cab dimension : 40 x 40cm x 1,50m roughly) I actually run a 125w envirolite and i think it's running pretty hot because of the integrated ballast, will the cmh run cooler ? Or, at worse, run at the same temp ?

Again, thanks for this thread I was having problem deciding between cfl and leds for a grow but everyone here convinced me... I think the CMH will do a great job with this setup.
bye

 

[messn'n'gommin']

I can't speak for that particular ballast, but, when the power goes out on an HID ballast it is the lamp itself that restricts relighting before a "cool down" period of about 10-15 min. The ignitor just interprets the lamp as not being lit and keeps firing...until it does. It will probably shorten the life of the ignitor a bit, but, if a power outage rarely happens, it won't matter all that much in the long run. When it happens to me, I just unplug the ballast for that 10-15 minutes.

I'm not all that familiar with the metric system, so this is just a best guess, but that size fan should be enough. Considering that 70%-75% of the energy output of an HID lamp is going to be heat, then yeah, it will be considerably hotter than the envirolite. But, I don't understand having the fan blow on the lamp itself? A better idea would be to remove the heated air by using the fan to pull it through a carbon filter and exhausted outside the cab.

Also, for that size floor space, you might be happier with a 150w light.

Hope this helps!

 

[Shamharoth]

I can't speak for that particular ballast, but, when the power goes out on an HID ballast it is the lamp itself that restricts relighting before a "cool down" period of about 10-15 min. The ignitor just interprets the lamp as not being lit and keeps firing...until it does. It will probably shorten the life of the ignitor a bit, but, if a power outage rarely happens, it won't matter all that much in the long run. When it happens to me, I just unplug the ballast for that 10-15 minutes.

So I'll just get a normal ballast

Thank you for your help !

 

[TenToesTall]

I cant seem ta find any cmh bulbs bigger than 400 watts. Was looking to pick up a couple more 600w HPS systems and Im sold on the CMH. These have supposedly been in the making for 2-3 years now..Where the hell they at? Looks like Im going with the Sunagro.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Shamharoth, I agree with m&g about the fan. A fan blowing on the bulb is not going to do much at all. You need to incorporate that with an intake/exhaust system that pulls negative air pressure in the box. Without proper ventilation, no box will see success. Nobody just gets lucky in that area...no matter if they tell you they are good or not, they are not telling it straight and have a grow that is suffering.
One thing to be sure of...the Philips 250 and 400 watt CMH's need a magnetic core HPS ballast. Electronic or digital ballasts will not work properly. The 150's need a Pulse Start Metal Halide ballast.

TenToesTall, there will not be any 600's or 1000's coming out. They do not fit the model they use to sell the CMH's with, and the company is not going to expend the resources for them. They are made for the soul purpose of replacement bulbs, and the majority of the bulbs that would be replaced are in the industrial setting and at the 400watt size.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Market drives manufacturing. If pot becomes legal and more lamps are demanded, the supply of more of them will be available to meet that demand. (quite possible the demand for such things will plummet)

As far as the large wattage CMH lamps go, consider that the very best scenario would be to introduce the plants with the widest spectrum of light possible. Granted the CMH produces a much more desirable spectrum of light for growing than an HPS, but when they are combined together they put out fantastic results. If you read closely to what ATL says, the recommendation is to combine the spectrum for optimum results, and I concur. I think a 1000HPS (or 600 for that matter) used with a 400CMH would be a great combo.

 

[Shamharoth]

Shamharoth, I agree with m&g about the fan. A fan blowing on the bulb is not going to do much at all. You need to incorporate that with an intake/exhaust system that pulls negative air pressure in the box. Without proper ventilation, no box will see success. Nobody just gets lucky in that area...no matter if they tell you they are good or not, they are not telling it straight and have a grow that is suffering.
One thing to be sure of...the Philips 250 and 400 watt CMH's need a magnetic core HPS ballast. Electronic or digital ballasts will not work properly. The 150's need a Pulse Start Metal Halide ballast.

Concerning the vent, I have not described it well, actually it is not a simple fan blowing on the lamp but the intake of the cab, the exhaust is currently passive, still I think I will follow the advices given here and convert it to an exhaust when there will be more height to cool. So far in early veg when there was not much volume to cool I think this setup done its job, the stems grew thicker than ever because of the enormous airflow in the box and the temps have not gone any further than 32°c on hot days of summer (and still this was the temperature of the air, the plants were allowed to cool nicely because of the airflow), but I think with more height the fan will not be able to give enough pressure to cool efficiently, so I'll switch to an exhaust...
@mess : as for the metric system, the cab at its full height have a volume of 8.476 cubic feet and the fan a flow of 117.7cfm (nice for a $7 fan ^^), so I guess it will be fine
Thanks.

 

[Spoc]

Grow System O.K?

Grow System O.K?

Just starting to put together a tent and am not quite sure if this an efficient set up for a first timer. Havn't purchased anything but quality Indica dominent seeds. Gonna try for 4 plants and will be growing High Grade Seeds -Northern Lights #5. After scouring a few cannabis forums I've been sold on these CMH lamps. Will the following be a good set up or is this overkill?

Harvest Pro 400w HPS ballast $118
Super sun 2 Reflector $109
Phillips 400w CMH $52
Hyrdo Farm 265cfm fan $70
Goblin Filter $98
ebay tent 4x2x5 $100

Will this all function properly or would I be better off going with a 250 for given tent size? Thought this was a reasonable system, any thoughts before I take the plunge?

 

[kriffin]

Besides vertical and horizontal fitting are these lights the same type of CMH?

http://www.lightingsupply.com/CDM400S51-HOR-4K-ALTO.aspx

http://www.lightingsupply.com/CDM400S51-V-O-4K-ALTO.aspx

I'm getting a S51 ballast to handle it and was wondering if I should get the vert or hori?(the fixture i have is for horizontal)

Thanks in advance!

 

[FreezerBoy]

Either will work in the "wrong" position but, lamp life is greatly reduced.

 

[NiKEUS-]

I'm in the UK and was wondering if someone can point me to ballasts that are sold here that work with these bulbs please?
thanks

 

[Herbalista]

Great thread,it reminds of the Hank Williams song..."I saw the light!";...the epiphany...was like a light bulb going on over my head...

 

[whiterasta]

Hey guys! will be posting pics in a day or so of present round. am using this combo of CMH/HPS :http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=3261963#post3261963
Still dialing in the optimum light schedule and think I am very close with a 4hr CMH solitary leadin and an 8hr dual burn for 12hrs.I have last round to compare with so should be interesting. Observations show better bud development and more trichome production at 3 weeks than with a 2 hr lead in and lead out with CMH.My thinking is repilcate a short morning in CMH and then after 4 hrs the HPS brings on the sun so to speak.My strains seem to be really taking to this significantly over the first light schedule.
At this point I am fully sold on CMH lighting and will be adding another fixture to my vented parabolics for 2CMH.4K+1HPS1K under each hood/50-70ft2.
IMO adding the high red and penetration of the high watt HPS is really kicking up the show but I will be posting last round at 3weeeks along with this one at same.I think it will be rather dramatic.
Cheers

 

[Pinball Wizard]

Hey guys! will be posting pics in a day or so of present round. am using this combo of CMH/HPS :https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=3261963#post3261963
Still dialing in the optimum light schedule and think I am very close with a 4hr CMH solitary leadin and an 8hr dual burn for 12hrs.I have last round to compare with so should be interesting. Observations show better bud development and more trichome production at 3 weeks than with a 2 hr lead in and lead out with CMH.My thinking is repilcate a short morning in CMH and then after 4 hrs the HPS brings on the sun so to speak.My strains seem to be really taking to this significantly over the first light schedule.
At this point I am fully sold on CMH lighting and will be adding another fixture to my vented parabolics for 2CMH.4K+1HPS1K under each hood/50-70ft2.
IMO adding the high red and penetration of the high watt HPS is really kicking up the show but I will be posting last round at 3weeeks along with this one at same.I think it will be rather dramatic.
Cheers

Sounds good!...I'm in a perfect setup to try this, too!

Lead the way!