This my thinking as well. A sealed room that is stinking up the house isn't sealed. Negative pressure is critical. Doesn't have to be much. If I have everything set up right, I can eliminate odor from two grow rooms with a single filter (Phresh). I don't count on everything being and remaining perfect so always run at least two for insurance, but both are in the same room. Escaping smell for me has always meant I was somehow exhausting contaminated air.
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Carbon filters suck!!!
- Thread starter chomsky
- Start date
chomsky
Member
OK OK you guys got me... My room probably isnt as sealed as I claimed... Its sealed enough to contain the Co2 for the most part but Im wasting it venting. I gotta figure out this negative pressure deal...
Thanks
O
OG Tree Grower
I've tried over 15-20 times to truely seal a room but even with unlimited money and time I could never truely seal a room, that's when I got into lung rooms and making a perfect environment in my lung room, then you pump the air in and out of the lung room, this creates negitive pressure on the grow area, it also allows you to put all your equipment in the lung room. Makes a "perfect environment" for the plants, no hot or cold spots, no soaked plants from the fogger , not dry plants from the dehumuidifyer ect, nothing but plants and lights in the grow room makes for beautiful harvests, I'm just a bit busy to make this a lengthy reply but if u have questions about setting up your lung room shoot away and I'll come back here later today
chomsky
Member
Whenever you have a chance that would be awesome. No hurry. My biggest problem though with venting is that I run CO2. Is there a way to not waste to that?
It's easy - blow more than you suck
Let's say your room leaks air. For negaiteve pressure, you need to be pushing more air out of the space than seeps in through the gaps. That means air only moves into your space through the gaps and out through the exhaust. If you were to blow smoke toward a gap from outside the room, it should get sucked into the room. Lose negative pressure and air and stink seep out through the gaps. You can also run into problems if you have a filter -> duct -> light -> exhaust arrangement with a fan at the exhaust point. This will create negative pressure in the ducts and lights that sucks stink into the system after filtration that is then exhausted. Lots of ways to end up exhausting stink air instead of filtered air.
O
OG Tree Grower
the lung room is normally adjacent to the grow and they just exchange air 24/7 , there is no venting to the outside. You will use slightly more co2 because both rooms will have the same co2 ppm of course but it is still a sealed setup because nothing leaves those two rooms. Usually I just vent the scrubber through the wall and it blows scrubbed air into the lung room, and it passively gets sucked back into the grow after its treated by all your other air condition/ environmental gear. Your lung room will be free of smell so I always use that as my entrance and no smell escapes when your opening and closing doors or working on stuff. Your grow will always have negitive pressure and you will rid your self of any smell issues.
Or a cheaper way is to use the smallest fan/filter combo and a controller to set it on idle, and vent a tiny amount of air outside, this keeps negitive pressure on the grow but you will burn through co2 a bit faster since your exhausting it.
Both ways work well if you generate co2, if your using bottles ya pretty much gotta keep it sealed with the lung room
Or a cheaper way is to use the smallest fan/filter combo and a controller to set it on idle, and vent a tiny amount of air outside, this keeps negitive pressure on the grow but you will burn through co2 a bit faster since your exhausting it.
Both ways work well if you generate co2, if your using bottles ya pretty much gotta keep it sealed with the lung room
YetiOG
Member
Building a totally sealed room is very tough and using a AC well that's not sealing it at all unless it's ductless...
I was going to say you need to be sure the room has negative pressure so it dosent possibly leak smell. Pretty easy extract more than you intake. Tada! Start there and also look at a ductless ac
chomsky
Member
I do understand all that. My biggest concern though is venting out all of the CO2 I'm using. If I'm venting more than I'm taking in it seems to me like I would be pushing out CO2 and I would have to buy so many tanks it would be ridiculous.
O
OG Tree Grower
That's right your bang on, you need a ductless ac OR rid your self of the co2 and exhaust your room sizex2 this will keep plenty of fresh air and co2 available to the plants
Check out this post I made a while back about fresh air exchanged rooms.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=112862&page=83
Check out this post I made a while back about fresh air exchanged rooms.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=112862&page=83
EastCoast710
Active member
either fully seal it.. and don't have exhaust.. just exhaust your lights. if your using co2.. grab a dehumidifier and AC.. and just seal the bitch. a lot of dudes in Colorado running sealed rooms aren't exhausting shit but there lights.
chomsky
Member
Well I am using LED so there's no heat to really be exhausted. If I run an AC in the room though I will have to exhaust that, which will also suck out the CO2. On a positive note however, since I'm coming into the winter I may be able to run my AC Without exhausting it it just depends where the temperatures and land. That would be awesome for me.
O
OG Tree Grower
LEDs still put out heat, just not as much as hps and not as much off the bulb, it still produces close to te same heat watt for watt.
I don't understand why you would run an ac if you didn't need to and how it would accomplish anything without exhausting the waste heat
I'm sure you will come up with something that works tho now that you know what's up so to speak, there are many ways to accomplish what u need to do so just do some reading and draw out a few blueprints and you'll get it handled. Once you have a plan and some spesific questions just ask away and we will get this all figured out
I don't understand why you would run an ac if you didn't need to and how it would accomplish anything without exhausting the waste heat
I'm sure you will come up with something that works tho now that you know what's up so to speak, there are many ways to accomplish what u need to do so just do some reading and draw out a few blueprints and you'll get it handled. Once you have a plan and some spesific questions just ask away and we will get this all figured out
chomsky
Member
Right on
O
OG Tree Grower
Air cooled lights are the worst invention ever made, it kills your light penetration and considering this is our limiting factor indoors that's just craziness. Buy an ac that can handle the load of open hoods, 3500-4000 btu per 1000w.
Tree Grower,
So, your way is the only way? Are you saying that what I'm suggesting doesn't work? I'm here to testify that it does work. I have a Mt. Air sitting in my storeroom that was treated that way for 4 1/2 years. I retired it even though it still worked fine with 24/7 use.
Yeah I know how to replace the carbon. I just choose the easier way. The reason I retired the Mt. Air is because I didn't want to find the limit at an inopportune time. I think the carbon probably does have a limit, but I haven't found what that is yet. BTW, how do you go about getting the carbon to settle properly? Some people put it on top of their washer set on repeated spin cycles.
If you're using a portable, you'll need to exhaust the heat from the unit. With a mini-split, a window unit, or a thru the wall unit, the heat is exhausted with normal installation. You seem to be talking about very inefficient portable A/C's. Doesn't matter what time of year, you'll still need to exhaust the waste heat. A/C units produce slightly more heat than cool. Good luck. -granger
Completely unscientific thought. I've had it in my head that a carbon filter should only last 1 - 1.5 years. Pretty sure I've seen the same posted here and elsewhere.
I have had a carbon filter fail after 18 months - the first one I ever bought. It was cheap junk with very little carbon in it. Instead of there being a device related law - failure in 12-18 months, it seems possible that longevity is determined by the volume (surface area, I guess) of the charcoal. So 5 times the charcoal may mean 5x the lifespan.
Just from what I've seen related in this thread, I'm going to adjust my thinking to this: A good filter could last 5 years or more, especially if it's given the reverse air blow out after every few grow cycles and cooked every few years. After that, replace the charcoal. Certainly better than buying new ones every year.
I have had a carbon filter fail after 18 months - the first one I ever bought. It was cheap junk with very little carbon in it. Instead of there being a device related law - failure in 12-18 months, it seems possible that longevity is determined by the volume (surface area, I guess) of the charcoal. So 5 times the charcoal may mean 5x the lifespan.
Just from what I've seen related in this thread, I'm going to adjust my thinking to this: A good filter could last 5 years or more, especially if it's given the reverse air blow out after every few grow cycles and cooked every few years. After that, replace the charcoal. Certainly better than buying new ones every year.
I use two stage ventilation as described in the ventilation 101 thread. One fan draws air from outside the room & pushes thru the insulated & enclosed hood It runs with the light & vents outside in the summer & inside in cooler weather. Positive pressure in the ducting keeps room smell out of the airstream. The other fan runs all the time & is pulling thru a 6" Phat filter with a minimum # of taped joints in between. My cellar workshop acts as a lung room. Both fans are on variacs so I don't move more air than necessary to maintain temps.
Even with that, it was tough keeping summer temps down in a house w/o central AC & a big ass evap cooler using a 1000w system. With twin 315's, it's a lot easier.
It's easy to wear out carbon filters with VOC's like spray paint, parts cleaner or any number of things. I learned that the hard way spray painting in my workshop lung room adjacent to the grow space...
Even with that, it was tough keeping summer temps down in a house w/o central AC & a big ass evap cooler using a 1000w system. With twin 315's, it's a lot easier.
It's easy to wear out carbon filters with VOC's like spray paint, parts cleaner or any number of things. I learned that the hard way spray painting in my workshop lung room adjacent to the grow space...
O
OG Tree Grower
Granger old buddy I didn't say your way wouldn't work I just said eventually it will have to get recharged. I do agree dust clogs the pores more often than not, making the carbon less and less effective, but when it gets to a grey ash like color it needs to be baked or replaced.i wasn't saying you were wrong at all. But the cheap carbon comment I didn't get, it honestly is all the same to me, I've never had a batch that didn't work as good as another.
I used crushed stuff these days and smack it with a rubber hammer and it all falls together nicely, I don't buy the pellets unless I have to because it's a real pain to get them all seated. If I'm forced to get the pellets I use a Christmas tree shaker
O
OG Tree Grower
Humudity is what gives mine such a short life span, I keep the grow at 70 rh and after the fourth flower they will bypass smell, other grows that I help with that don't control there humudity the filters seem to last much much longer but never more than two years. I have tried to blow mine out before but it didn't work for me, probably because I ruined mine with rh.and they never got a chance to build up much dust
