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Cancel Culture
- Thread starter gaiusmarius
- Start date
Switcher56
Comfortably numb!
Be careful what you wish for
imiubu
Well-known member
Pike was a Confederate traitor who died 7 years before Zionism was founded. I remember I believed these fake quotes too when I was conspiracy pilled.
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Ahh - glad to see you back Cannavore - can you give me the dates and links to what you claim? - always interesting to debunk anything - if indeed we can -
The 1880s then saw the emergence of a slew of Jewish political alternatives to liberalism, from socialism to nationalism to nationally organized forms of socialism. Zionism emerged in this mix as a particular form of nationalism: the idea that Jews could be fully realized culturally and politically only in a homeland of their own. This thinking took shape in particular in the work of Leon Pinsker in his 1882 text “Autoemancipation.”
Evolution of the Zionist Movement
The earliest Zionist settlers, known as the first Aliyah (wave of immigration), emerge in Eastern Europe following the events of 1882. The “Lovers of Zion” sent tiny groups of Jews to purchase lands mostly in the Jaffa region and Galilee. But they were very disorganized. The major organization came from Central Europeans, and most importantly Theodor Herzl, who in 1897 convened the First Zionist Congress in Basel, Switzerland. * (Pike died in 1891 - 4 years later)
https://www.fpri.org/article/2015/01/origins-and-evolution-of-zionism/
Albert Pike (December 29, 1809 – April 2, 1891) was an American author, poet, orator, editor, lawyer, jurist, and prominent member of the Freemasons who served as an associate justice of the Arkansas Supreme Court from 1864 until the surrender of the Trans-Mississippi Department in May 1865.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Pike
* looks to me like Albert Pike lived till 1891 - by then Zionism was very well established as an ideology - or was it?
The 1880s then saw the emergence of a slew of Jewish political alternatives to liberalism, from socialism to nationalism to nationally organized forms of socialism. Zionism emerged in this mix as a particular form of nationalism: the idea that Jews could be fully realized culturally and politically only in a homeland of their own. This thinking took shape in particular in the work of Leon Pinsker in his 1882 text “Autoemancipation.”
Evolution of the Zionist Movement
The earliest Zionist settlers, known as the first Aliyah (wave of immigration), emerge in Eastern Europe following the events of 1882. The “Lovers of Zion” sent tiny groups of Jews to purchase lands mostly in the Jaffa region and Galilee. But they were very disorganized. The major organization came from Central Europeans, and most importantly Theodor Herzl, who in 1897 convened the First Zionist Congress in Basel, Switzerland. * (Pike died in 1891 - 4 years later)
https://www.fpri.org/article/2015/01/origins-and-evolution-of-zionism/
Albert Pike (December 29, 1809 – April 2, 1891) was an American author, poet, orator, editor, lawyer, jurist, and prominent member of the Freemasons who served as an associate justice of the Arkansas Supreme Court from 1864 until the surrender of the Trans-Mississippi Department in May 1865.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Pike
* looks to me like Albert Pike lived till 1891 - by then Zionism was very well established as an ideology - or was it?
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dramamine
Well-known member
There's a world of difference in deciding who you don't want to read, speak to, or hang out with vs. deciding who no one should read, speak to or hang out with. That is the real debate, whereas few would disagree with what you've stated above.
Nobody is deciding for you. They’re deciding for themselves. They/we/ you do have that right.
- Yes - absolutely right you are h.h. - you see how easily some can be so easily fooled when times and dates are involved - me included - lol
- and Cannavore is absolutely correct - and wins the post of the day -
* what we need is an official ICMAG 'Fact-Checker' - I did offer the position to Doc Longbottom earlier today - but he seems to have turned his nose up at it -
White Beard
Active member
All those ancient grudges we know as conspiracy theories haven’t been cancelled, despite all the advances of the modern era: they’re stored up online, ready to ‘convince’ the convinceable...I’m sure it will still be whispered in the dark corners that Trump “really did win” for decades, and once you’ve discarded evidence for belief, the garbage can spread. Dragging fairy tales into real life and real policies is exactly how we ended up with Q.
I’ve said before, humans have not successfully grappled with the issue of allowing self-interested assholes from gaining control of our nations...or our communities. The fact is, an asshole may do something that gains them praise, but being a hero for a moment doesn’t wash away the abuses and impositions that assholes consider their right to engage in.
These “memes” OTOH are bullshit.Gypsy Nirvana said:
They peg Pike’s death as 1880; you suggest it was 1891.
How many world wars at that point? ZERO.
Nice thing about dead people: you can attribute ANYTHING to them and they’ll never refute the charges. This is right up there with the “Abraham Lincoln quote” about not believing everything you read on the Internet....
Who do you imagine is doing that “deciding”, if not individuals? As I see it, the “real debate” is over whether or not liars and manipulators should get to rule on whether they are lying and manipulating...and that’s another aspect to “cancel culture” - or, as Goebbels put it, ‘accuse others of the things you do, to deflect attention from your own actions’...such as trying to claim a crime against the nation (attempted reversal of a certified election) is perfectly normal - while cancelling the BULK OF THE VOTE and the VOTERS who cast them.
Another case of believing your owners, or your own lying eyes....
- good post White Beard -
They just keep me awake all night.
https://daily.jstor.org/cancel-culture-is-chaotic-good/ Dec '20
No one could argue that it’s pleasant to be at the bottom of a pile on, virtual or not. It’s true that people can band together for the wrong reasons, but, funnily enough, they can also band together for very good reasons. Cancelling someone, in terms of public shaming, or shunning, or just being criticized, is, again, nothing new, though it is arguably different in how quickly and severely it can happen online. The English professor Jodie Nicotra points out that such a thing has always been a part of community life and, in fact, a part of building and maintaining a community’s values. Whenever people have deviated from the norm, there have been public acts of shaming, from the scarlet letters or village stocks of Puritan life to the ritual public head shavings of thousands of French women who were suspected of fraternizing with German soldiers in World War II.
Cancel culture is, on the one hand, less severe than these acts of public shaming, because it is mostly linguistic and communicative. On the other hand, it can seem more extreme, because unlike these historical events of past shaming, it’s unconstrained by geographical space and can involve large numbers of people in what can become an unrelenting personal attack. It’s not constrained by closely linked social circles where information eventually stops spreading after repeatedly being shared by multiple people.
This could explain why cancel culture seems so widespread, so virulently uncontrollable, and so dangerously unstable. It’s this that makes cancel culture very much a part of modern life. Rhetorical phenomena like virtual call-outs can spontaneously self-assemble a community based on #sharedbeliefs where there may not have been one before, tapping into a power that members of a group individually may never have had, but also reinforcing its evolving norms and values through language.
"....funnily enough, they can also band together for very good reasons..." That's what has been in my reasons for call out/in, boycott.....
On March 24,'18 thousands in Albuquerque marched in the streets of the Old Town area for the nationwide gun violence protest March for Our Lives, including my dog, his first protest march.
We can change for the good.
No one could argue that it’s pleasant to be at the bottom of a pile on, virtual or not. It’s true that people can band together for the wrong reasons, but, funnily enough, they can also band together for very good reasons. Cancelling someone, in terms of public shaming, or shunning, or just being criticized, is, again, nothing new, though it is arguably different in how quickly and severely it can happen online. The English professor Jodie Nicotra points out that such a thing has always been a part of community life and, in fact, a part of building and maintaining a community’s values. Whenever people have deviated from the norm, there have been public acts of shaming, from the scarlet letters or village stocks of Puritan life to the ritual public head shavings of thousands of French women who were suspected of fraternizing with German soldiers in World War II.
Cancel culture is, on the one hand, less severe than these acts of public shaming, because it is mostly linguistic and communicative. On the other hand, it can seem more extreme, because unlike these historical events of past shaming, it’s unconstrained by geographical space and can involve large numbers of people in what can become an unrelenting personal attack. It’s not constrained by closely linked social circles where information eventually stops spreading after repeatedly being shared by multiple people.
This could explain why cancel culture seems so widespread, so virulently uncontrollable, and so dangerously unstable. It’s this that makes cancel culture very much a part of modern life. Rhetorical phenomena like virtual call-outs can spontaneously self-assemble a community based on #sharedbeliefs where there may not have been one before, tapping into a power that members of a group individually may never have had, but also reinforcing its evolving norms and values through language.
"....funnily enough, they can also band together for very good reasons..." That's what has been in my reasons for call out/in, boycott.....
On March 24,'18 thousands in Albuquerque marched in the streets of the Old Town area for the nationwide gun violence protest March for Our Lives, including my dog, his first protest march.
We can change for the good.
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Yes, but did Zionism exist beforehand? Not as an organization but as a movement leading to organization.
History of Zionism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Zionism
dramamine
Well-known member
I'm not talking about Trump, Goebbels or owners, but rather individuals, as you said. Dissent comes from all sides, and is part of a healthy functioning society. So-called cancel culture is the trend of suppressing voices with which we disagree, rather than debating with or ignoring them altogether.
- Yes - just because someone has another view on life - has different likes and dislikes - has different beliefs and opinions to you - doesn't give you the right to 'cancel' them - that's what you call tyranny -
- There was an article in the Daily Fail recently about a lady BBC journalist who included the term 'nitty-gritty' in some report she made - and someone accused her of 'racism' - and was out to 'cancel' her because of it by reporting what she said - how bloody ridiculous it gets - to the point of even banning what language you can use - or not -
- Hmmm - interesting question - from what I can make of it the striving for Jewish nationhood/nationalism which developed into the ideology of Zionism must have been around when Albert Pike was alive -
Zionism (n.)
"movement for forming (later supporting) a Jewish national state in Palestine," 1896, from German Zionismus (from Zion + Latin-derived suffix -ismus; see -ism); first recorded 1886 in "Selbstemancipation," by "Matthias Acher" (pseudonym of Nathan Birnbaum (1864-1937)).
- so Albert Pike could have been aware of Zionism in 1886 (since he didn't die till 1891) - making those quotes stated to be his possible - or even probable -
https://www.etymonline.com/word/zionism
Dissent and support comes from all sides. Calling for boycotts fits within the realm of free speech. Now if the mods decide to censor it, that’s also their right.
It’s not illegal, it’s not unethical, and it’s not bullying. It’s voicing ones opinion through their wallet.
