Can the genetics be saved from plant with fusarium/pythium/stem canker?

[maryjaneismyfre]

https://21668670.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/21668670/Marketing/Resources/Guide/STOP%20Pathogens%20Program%20Guide.pdf

https://21668670.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/21668670/Marketing/Resources/Guide/Tool%20sterilization%20Comprehensive%20Report-Final.pdf

Hop Latent Viroid — TUMI Genomics

tumigenomics.com

They are a great resource...

I can't comment on the dichlor. I don't know..Bleach solutions will neutralise it, that I do know. Both are oxidizers but I don't have literature on the dichlor. Bleach is cheap and available though and the gold standard so I just use that.

 

[englishrick]

I'm wondering how effective ozone water is on fusarium,,,dunking cuts in ozone water repeatedly and using an ozone generator in the room,,,

 

[Hammerhead]

Ozone is listed as an air pollutant that can be harmful to breathe and it damages crops, trees, and other vegetation. Breathing in ozone can cause severe irritation and fluid buildup in your lungs. It can cause health problems, particularly for people with asthma, children, older adults, and people who are active outdoors. I have a small ozone air cleaner for the house but can't buy replacement Ozone bulbs since Cali banned them.

https://www.epa.gov/ozone-pollution-and-your-patients-health/health-effects-ozone-general-population

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

We used to make ozone generators back in the day to mask the smells of the weed, from instructions on OG.com from transformers..I used ozone generators to treat my dams, though in the end the bulbs always get weak and its the peroxide catalyst doing the work, in which case i just dose peroxide now periodically to knock algae down, and then dose microbe brews to do the work..but these systemic stem and root rots...to me I just see viroid now...You can have a clean and a dirty plant and the clean not get any of this shit and the dirty succumb time and again...and across many strains, to me the common denominator is viroid.. And ozone and peroxide does nothing to the molecule of rna at the concentrations we use them at, one needs 10000ppm free chlorine to render it non infectious.

As as moms are largely clean again, rooting rates of clones have jumped from 60% back to the 99.99% they are supposed to be. Fusarium and shit gone. Our clone manager was trying all different protocols, systemic fungicides etc..but what made the difference was just having moms clean of viroid. If the viroid load is high, you just look at the clones wrong and they rot on you..

And if I think back to late 90s, early 2000's growing dutch strains like white widow and bubblegum (that in hindsight was obviously clean viroid-wise), my mate who had the ozone generator in the room that the fan blew the stinky hot air into from the bedroom with the cupboard of weed. We'd grow these long ass plants in bubbler buckets, that'd grow huge colas, we were back then hitting g/w in a cupboard with 250 and 400w hps's jacked from streetlights, with passive air exchange in the cupboard and the humidity and temps be so bad in that room, mold be growing on the walls..but did the weed ever rot? We only learnt what powder mold and budrot was years later, round the time i now see everything being infected with viroid, I reckon most seed had it in the batch post 2004 my opinion now..I've been growing strains on a commercial scale, from europe for export to europe, where i was like damn this is the weakest ass shit I've ever grown for molds, root rots, PM, budrot etc..and using diet, environment, SAR initiators like chitosan and regalia etc. I'd bring that mold resistance in those plants from a 1 or 2 out of 10, to an 8 out of ten...but in hindsight i was just reactivating the inherent immune system of the plant inhibited by viroid. Managing the disease. When I've got blocks of the same plant, thousands, but off different age moms with differing viroid loads, the incidence of molds, leaf, flower and root and stem molds, is directly proportional to the viroid load, side by side, same strain, in numbers in same environment on same diet etc...to me the answer to all of this is viroid..clear that out and if one has the basics covered, the rest takes care of itself.

 

[englishrick]

Have we considered that Locdogs canker might be sclerotinia?

What do you guys suggest for sclerotinia?,,systemic fungicides,,,I have just read this,,what's the best combination for this sclerotinia shit

"best observed results (100% disease suppression) were achieved with the combination of either C. minitans + S griseoviridis or T. hamatum + S. griseoviridis."

 

[Ca++]

Dodgy shit that ozone. Air treatment involves exclusion until hours after the machine times out. I got a small generator, that perhaps a few watts, for a few bucks. I hooked it on my bathroom fan, but the room smelt. So I put a tube over it, like a duct, so I was sure all the ozone was extracted. It still smelt. Though very little, and not often. After a few weeks the white plastic had gone brown beside it. My hope was any smell going out, would be traveling along with the ozone, on the wind. It wasn't useful though.
In the meantime I coughed for a 4 plate design. Each plate like 5 of the thing I used. It's still in it's box. I should sell it.

I think in water it's another matter. Food sterilising kits that are basically a big fish tank aerator kit, take advantage of the extra oxygen. I think that has use in our tanks. Though nobody seem to be going near the idea.

 

[englishrick]

Can you guys look at this paper and give your opinions,,,I'm making a shopping list,, i kinda need a hand, ,the approach seems to deal with pythium fusarium and sclerotinia,,this paper is for sclerotinia but if you use mycostop (lalstop), serenade and pre stop,,,you should win a fusarium battle too

management of sclerotinia white rot of beans with antagonistic ...

https://thejaps.org.pk/docs/v-27-2/24.pdf

 

[Ca++]

Sorry Rick, I'd like to help, but I just don't know any products that actually work. If plants can't save themselves, with minimal help from us, then all the reading in the world, can only offer other types of limited control. Things like the obvious h2o2 cleanups, and Great White Shark to chuck in a handful of competitors. Any meaningful chemical fix is outlawed. Though I am interested in how many generations of cuttings it takes, before things like Seagul Venty are invisible to tissue testing. We can comfortably do 40 generations in 5 years. At that point, I would be more concerned by the exposure felt by opening the car window, to let the fog out.

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

Rick, look, those 2 species were just the best species for inhibiting the kanker, but most of the species of bacteria, fungi etc that were tested had some inhibitory effect. But this all well known and used in industry. I use trichoderma in pots, on foliage (different strains, theres one perfectly suited for foliage and the pathogens we encounter there) and I use bacillus and others extensively. As well watering is very important, as is moisture/air levels when one is growing fungi, so having a nice aerobic rootzone is critical as most of these pathogenic microbes love wet anaerobic conditions. Higher order fungi also make a swathe of enzymes and antibiotics and for the plants growth factors, which help us, so when i see pot mushrooms, LBM's and yellow pot mushroom, so do my root rot and kanker incidences go right down in mothers.

I make bacterial and fungal brews too, using medium inputs to suit the creation of enzymes that suit the task I have for the brew, and apply them to rootzones and also foliar feed them. And they help. But in hindsight...What they were more doing was mega applications of enzymes, which inhibit also RNA replication and stimulate SAR immune responses, as well as denaturing pathogenic fungi and also a concoction of anti biotics and competitive microbes.. But get that pathogenic RNA out of the way that keeps on replicating in the plants and my root rot and kanker incidence has gone down to 0% in thousands of mothers. So what was the biggest factor determining my success with these rots, as well foliage and bud rots...once Im applying all the helpful germs and using all the tools I have, the biggest factor for me was removing the viral STD's that the plants had picked up in their lives out of the equation.

But that said, I still use the microbes...and they are still beneficial. And in terms of management of these inter-related diseases, they are gold.

Though that said, I now know that when in past I sprayed my plants in flower with concentrated microbial brews and it was like someone went and spraypainted my plants with health, and the resulting extreme purpling in days post as an immune response, I think the main positive effect that I used to see, was the momentary almost complete inhibition of unwanted RNA replication through the massive enzyme foliar dose, and also the immune response the chitonase enzymes and chitosan had, as well the direct anti-viral effect of the chitosan. Hindsight..

 

[englishrick]

I need to get my tissue culture kit setup again, and start doing all clones through invitro multiplication,,ive been crazy lazy and depressed since i moved house last year,,just not been able to set stuff up properly,,since moving house I've let it all my tc kit go to shit sat in my garage,,

I had a crazy issue with infected root riot cubes for nearly a year ,,,I only just figured out that it was the root riots recently,,,all mothers seemed clean apart from one dying when i first started using led's,, i thought i was over watering and rootzone was too cold and I'd caught a lil mold,,i thought nothing of it really,,only 1 plant died and the rest sermed fine,,but clones kept having issues later on, my mother's seemed clean at first then suddenly out of nowhere I seemed to be getting a pathogen on cuts,,i couldn't figure it out to save my life,, then my mother's got it too,,,I'm trying to help people with the same problem now,, its become systemic for a few of my friends before I figured that there was a problem,,everyone I know has been using the bonded peat pellets too,,just recently switched to rockwool and the issues seem to have vanished apart from the odd bit of fuzz

 

[Thcvhunter]

Can you guys look at this paper and give your opinions,,,I'm making a shopping list,, i kinda need a hand, ,the approach seems to deal with pythium fusarium and sclerotinia,,this paper is for sclerotinia but if you use mycostop (lalstop), serenade and pre stop,,,you should win a fusarium battle too

management of sclerotinia white rot of beans with antagonistic ...

https://thejaps.org.pk/docs/v-27-2/24.pdf

Ive posted elsewhere in the past on this, not sure where though

Ive saved many nurseries in NorCal using EM-1 by terraganix.
The PNSB bacteria in there eats fusarium.
Problem solved, and no chemicals needed.

One nursery lost 500 clones day 1
I arrived on day two, we counted 2,000 dead clones.
Came back on day 3 with EM1, another couple thousand dead.
Day 4, only a couple hundred dead.
By day 7, all was well and you couldn't tell they almost lost their whole operation and all plugs were healthy and rooting again.

EM1 helps with PM, mold, fusarium. Helps a bit with others like septoria, but those types are more a sign of mineral imbalance.

 

[Thcvhunter]

I need to get my tissue culture kit setup again, and start doing all clones through invitro multiplication,,ive been crazy lazy and depressed since i moved house last year,,just not been able to set stuff up properly,,since moving house I've let it all my tc kit go to shit sat in my garage,,

I had a crazy issue with infected root riot cubes for nearly a year ,,,I only just figured out that it was the root riots recently,,,all mothers seemed clean apart from one dying when i first started using led's,, i thought i was over watering and rootzone was too cold and I'd caught a lil mold,,i thought nothing of it really,,only 1 plant died and the rest sermed fine,,but clones kept having issues later on, my mother's seemed clean at first then suddenly out of nowhere I seemed to be getting a pathogen on cuts,,i couldn't figure it out to save my life,, then my mother's got it too,,,I'm trying to help people with the same problem now,, its become systemic for a few of my friends before I figured that there was a problem,,everyone I know has been using the bonded peat pellets too,,just recently switched to rockwool and the issues seem to have vanished apart from the odd bit of fuzz

Ive been bit by rooting media before.
Now, I let all rooting media get bone dry. Usually if they are pre-wetted, they grow nasty molds in the bag.
Then I rehydrate with water that has a good pour of EM-1. Soak those and squeeze underwater to saturate all matrices and not allow any dry spots.
1st 3 days once I plug my cuts the peat plugs sit in trays with a half inch to an inch of water with a 1/4 cup of EM-1. Any water used in the 1st 3 days has EM1. Its both a PGR and fungicide/bactricide.
On day 4 or 5, I dump the water out of the trays and let them go from wet to moist before adding just enough water in the trays to keep them moist.
No clone hoods.
Healthy roots in a week.

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

Also Rick..What I've found is, that combinations of microbes always work best...But one thing to consider, Bacillus species will inhibit the spore germination for a bunch of fungi, like beauvaria etc. and trichoderma a bunch of fungi, but not beauvaria, they work symbiotically. Streptomyces will wipe out a lot of competing beneficials etc. Bacillus and trichoderma also symbiote. but what one can combine, generally the combinations are more effective due to the combined effect of different enzymes and metabolites working synergistically.

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

Ive been bit by rooting media before.
Now, I let all rooting media get bone dry. Usually if they are pre-wetted, they grow nasty molds in the bag.
Then I rehydrate with water that has a good pour of EM-1. Soak those and squeeze underwater to saturate all matrices and not allow any dry spots.
1st 3 days once I plug my cuts the peat plugs sit in trays with a half inch to an inch of water with a 1/4 cup of EM-1. Any water used in the 1st 3 days has EM1. Its both a PGR and fungicide/bactricide.
On day 4 or 5, I dump the water out of the trays and let them go from wet to moist before adding just enough water in the trays to keep them moist.
No clone hoods.
Healthy roots in a week.

The "nasty" molds on prewetted jiffies, we had them looked at in the lab and what we found were mostly trichoderma..We've went around the block in circles, diet, beneficial microbes, contaminated rooting hormone, all manner of trying to dial conditions and keep clean and babying clones..but once we got clean stock free of viral diseases, night and day..they just power through any issues. No root rots, fusariums, Phytophthoras, pythiums etc..just stick in cube, put dome, daily burp and root. 99.999% success rates..turn your back and they're rooted. You don't even need to put IBA as endogenous hormones with no viral inhibition, are full up, but a little rooting hormone never hurts..

But biggest factor for me in having success with fusariums and funny rots, is to have stock clean of viral shit..Then the plants immune and hormones systems, on a balanced diet in a nice environment, seems to take care of any issues. Of course with beneficial microbes..

 

[LostTribe]

I need to get my tissue culture kit setup again, and start doing all clones through invitro multiplication,,ive been crazy lazy and depressed since i moved house last year,,just not been able to set stuff up properly,,since moving house I've let it all my tc kit go to shit sat in my garage,,

I had a crazy issue with infected root riot cubes for nearly a year ,,,I only just figured out that it was the root riots recently,,,all mothers seemed clean apart from one dying when i first started using led's,, i thought i was over watering and rootzone was too cold and I'd caught a lil mold,,i thought nothing of it really,,only 1 plant died and the rest sermed fine,,but clones kept having issues later on, my mother's seemed clean at first then suddenly out of nowhere I seemed to be getting a pathogen on cuts,,i couldn't figure it out to save my life,, then my mother's got it too,,,I'm trying to help people with the same problem now,, its become systemic for a few of my friends before I figured that there was a problem,,everyone I know has been using the bonded peat pellets too,,just recently switched to rockwool and the issues seem to have vanished apart from the odd bit of fuzz

Rick what media do you recommend?

 

[Loc Dog]

Have we considered that Locdogs canker might be sclerotinia?

What do you guys suggest for sclerotinia?,,systemic fungicides,,,I have just read this,,what's the best combination for this sclerotinia shit

"best observed results (100% disease suppression) were achieved with the combination of either C. minitans + S griseoviridis or T. hamatum + S. griseoviridis."

From what I just read, very rare indoors, but common outdoors. I did see white mold on stem of at least one of 20 clones, but hit with hydrogen peroxide and did not get worse on outside plant, although plant was fecked.

 

[Loc Dog]

The "nasty" molds on prewetted jiffies, we had them looked at in the lab and what we found were mostly trichoderma..We've went around the block in circles, diet, beneficial microbes, contaminated rooting hormone, all manner of trying to dial conditions and keep clean and babying clones..but once we got clean stock free of viral diseases, night and day..they just power through any issues. No root rots, fusariums, Phytophthoras, pythiums etc..just stick in cube, put dome, daily burp and root. 99.999% success rates..turn your back and they're rooted. You don't even need to put IBA as endogenous hormones with no viral inhibition, are full up, but a little rooting hormone never hurts..

But biggest factor for me in having success with fusariums and funny rots, is to have stock clean of viral shit..Then the plants immune and hormones systems, on a balanced diet in a nice environment, seems to take care of any issues. Of course with beneficial microbes..

I had GG4 for 8 years and never had any problems. It was when I bought clones online, that I have problems. Going to try nodal tissue culture soon. If mold is present in sample, it should spread on agar.

 

[Loc Dog]

Ive posted elsewhere in the past on this, not sure where though

Ive saved many nurseries in NorCal using EM-1 by terraganix.
The PNSB bacteria in there eats fusarium.
Problem solved, and no chemicals needed.

One nursery lost 500 clones day 1
I arrived on day two, we counted 2,000 dead clones.
Came back on day 3 with EM1, another couple thousand dead.
Day 4, only a couple hundred dead.
By day 7, all was well and you couldn't tell they almost lost their whole operation and all plugs were healthy and rooting again.

EM1 helps with PM, mold, fusarium. Helps a bit with others like septoria, but those types are more a sign of mineral imbalance.

Have only seen articles about using in soil. Does it also work in rockwool and coco.

 

[englishrick]

I had GG4 for 8 years and never had any problems. It was when I bought clones online, that I have problems. Going to try nodal tissue culture soon. If mold is present in sample, it should spread on agar.

Yeh exactly,,,your starting to really level up bro,,,this is exactly what I wanted for you,,,you will clock that shit in the microcloning and you can dump all the ones with the issue,,,then you can isolate the clean stuff,,

Fuk em all bro,,,they all know jackshit these clone sellers,,all of them have dirty rooms,,only the ones who do tissueculture are worth there salt,,grow better,,be stronger,,,no fuker will take you down then,,,I want you to be a king , rule this shit bro,,God speed,,

Also,,have a look at this list of inoculats,,they are a potential game changer,,,start using rockwool,,,while you are doing this cleanup you don't want the issue I had with bonded peat pellets infecting your clean shit,,,

Effect of the antagonistic fungi on Sclerotinia
sclerotiorum: After 3 days, C. minitans Campbell was
the most effective against S. sclerotiorum with 74.4%
reduction in the mycelial growth. This was followed by
T. hamatum (Bonorden) Bainier that cause 60.0%
inhibition in the mycelial growth (Table 1). Conversely,
T. hamatum (Bonorden) Bainier was the most effective
against the radial growth of S. sclerotiorum after 15 days,
with 93.0%, followed by T. viride Pers, T. harzianum
Rifai and C. minitans Campbell that causing 91.9, 91.7
and 91.1% reduction in the mycelia growth, respectively

 

[englishrick]

Also Rick..What I've found is, that combinations of microbes always work best...But one thing to consider, Bacillus species will inhibit the spore germination for a bunch of fungi, like beauvaria etc. and trichoderma a bunch of fungi, but not beauvaria, they work symbiotically. Streptomyces will wipe out a lot of competing beneficials etc. Bacillus and trichoderma also symbiote. but what one can combine, generally the combinations are more effective due to the combined effect of different enzymes and metabolites working synergistically.

How do you feel about this product bro,,it's cheap and really easy to get

I was thinking of trying to brew it with a seaweed extract and molasses in a vortex type brewer