Can ANYONE name the poison Eagle 20 with the active ingredient Myclobutanil??
- Thread starter EclipseFour20
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E420 you forgot to take into account how much is left in the stem and fan leaves that are not smoked. Or for that matter any that may make it to the roots.
Personally I remove most of my leaves when I spray to reduce the amount actually used. I think I use about a drop per pound of bud. So I guess it would actually be about a 1/3 of a drop per pound not counting all the waste you mentioned.
I have a question for those so worried about the napthalene, cyclohexanone, how much do you inhale when you fill up your gas tank.
Personally I remove most of my leaves when I spray to reduce the amount actually used. I think I use about a drop per pound of bud. So I guess it would actually be about a 1/3 of a drop per pound not counting all the waste you mentioned.
I have a question for those so worried about the napthalene, cyclohexanone, how much do you inhale when you fill up your gas tank.
lol elipse your a funny dude, your interpretation of data is very interesting indeed
lets go over your "findings" and really qualify the potential of toxin that could be left in the plant because if you could test for it i guarantee its there
now before we even start let me remind everyone reading this that in its natural form marijuana is not toxic
if we smoke it we have the issue of inhaling smoke but the plant in and of itself is not toxic
the "debate" at hand is the potential danger of PM exposure to a "medical patient" (which it can be tested for before hand meaning you can guarantee there is no patient exposure) versus the use of one particular fungicide eagle20 which contains known toxins and a carcinogen which at this time CANNOT be tested for which means you CANT guarantee a patient is not exposed)
my gut tells me it is simple greed ignorance and sloth because it is so simple and effect (being that its systemic)
now lets look at some of the "facts"
now before we disseminate the facts you posted lets look at some of the variables
you are using EAGLE20 not just myclobutanil, the other chemicals change the systemic properties
you know that right?
you are using it on CANNABIS not soybeans, cannabis is not a soybean (it doesn't even produce beans)
now regarding the tobacco "evidence" which is not an apples to apples comparison of EAGLE20 or cannabis but lets use it as a starter
A) after 21 days after application flue cured tobacco (heat cured) STILL retained up to 3.5 mg per kg of myclobutanil at up to 90% dissipation
the tobacco in the field test was bot indoors, your indoor weed is not subject to rain, sun, foliar irrigation, heat curing nor is it grown in the ground with a aquifer
now lets consider the "nominal" amount of mylcobutinal is left after 90% dissipation
potentially 3.5 per kg is that acceptable?
lets see
http://www.codexalimentarius.net/pe...tml?d-16497-o=1&d-16497-s=2&id=181&print=true
Commodity MRL Year of Adoption Symbols Note
Maximum Residue Limits for Myclobutanil
Tomato 0.3 mg/Kg 1999
Strawberry 1 mg/Kg 2001
Stone fruits 2 mg/Kg 2001 Except plums
Prunes 0.5 mg/Kg 1995
Poultry, Edible offal of 0.01 mg/Kg 1995 (*)
Poultry meat 0.01 mg/Kg 1995 (*)
Pome fruits 0.5 mg/Kg 1997
Plums (including prunes) 0.2 mg/Kg 1997 Except prunes
Hops, Dry 2 mg/Kg 2001
Grapes 1 mg/Kg 1997
Eggs 0.01 mg/Kg 1995 (*)
Currant, Black 0.5 mg/Kg 1999
Cattle, Edible offal of 0.01 mg/Kg 1995 (*)
Cattle milk 0.01 mg/Kg 1995 (*)
Cattle meat 0.01 mg/Kg 1995 (*)
Banana 2 mg/Kg 2001
(*) At or about the limit of determination.
notice how things that will be processed like hops or items with skins or shells like bananas have a higher acceptable rate but other items have a very low tolerance
notice NONE of them have an acceptable level of 3.5mg per kg
why don't we take a look at some more of the information you shared
"Over a 12 day period under greenhouse conditions, a constant uptake of myclobutanil from leaflet surfaces into the leaflet tissue was observed. Once in the leaflet, myclobutanil was seen to redistribute throughout the tissue, although no movement out of leaflets occurred owing to a lack of phloem mobility.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18683908"
you left out the rest
new growth is effected
this is straight from dows spec sheet
http://msdssearch.dow.com/Published...turf/pdfs/noreg/010-60414.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc
"Eagle 20EW works from the inside out and, unlike
some other locally systemic products, it protects
new foliage by translocating to new growth."
ti says the same on the rally 40w product page as well
http://www.dowagro.com/usag/prod/073.htm
Highly systemic action. Studies prove
that the active ingredient in Rally
moves in the direction of new growth
faster than other products"
now what if we look up some other studies like this one
http://md1.csa.com/partners/viewrec...s+of+MYCLOBUTANIL&uid=792008583&setcookie=yes
Systemic movement of myclobutanil in grape vine and soybean plants and implications for disease control
Ouimette, D | Mueller, J | Kemmitt, G | Mathieson, T | Deboer, G | Rowe-Lucas, N
Phytopathology [Phytopathology]. Vol. 95, no. 6, suppl., [np]. Jun 2005.
Myclobutanil is a broad-spectrum triazole fungicide which acts by inhibiting sterol 14-demethylase in sensitive fungi. It is particularly effective on powdery mildew and rust diseases. After application myclobutanil is rapidly absorbed from the foliage and has physical properties that allow for efficient systemic movement in the xylem and apoplast. In an effort to understand in more detail the systemic movement in relation to grape powdery mildew (Uncinula necator) control, greenhouse research was conducted with radiolabled 14C-myclobutanil. Research results demonstrated effective disease control as a direct effect of xylem transport even when applied as two or five 1- mu l droplets per leaf. The systemic characteristics of myclobutanil were also demonstrated from application to grape stems, providing disease control in leaves distant from application zone that correlated with radioactive myclobutanil entering and uniformly moving in the leaves. In addition, disease control was the result of the volatile action of myclobutanil against the fungus, which confirmed previous published research. Field results on mature grape vines mirrored the results found in the greenhouse, in which control of powdery mildew control was achieved from both systemic movement of myclobutanil from stem applications and volatility from application zone to untreated leaves. A similar systemicity profile was also obtained in soybean plants following both stem and leaf applications.
see what doesn't travel on its own becomes vapor and infuses with new growth, i wonder how exponentially the absorption rate is effected in indoor environment
or perhaps a sealed indoor environment
so elipse, mia, mega-yields and kruncbubble answer me this
does the xylem of the cannabis plant allow for translocation of myclobutinal from stem and leaf to bud?
can you test your hypothesis by sending your weeds out to be tested?
do patients deserve a guarantee for 1000s a dollars a pound medicines?
why not at least use something you can at least test for ?
lets go over your "findings" and really qualify the potential of toxin that could be left in the plant because if you could test for it i guarantee its there
now before we even start let me remind everyone reading this that in its natural form marijuana is not toxic
if we smoke it we have the issue of inhaling smoke but the plant in and of itself is not toxic
the "debate" at hand is the potential danger of PM exposure to a "medical patient" (which it can be tested for before hand meaning you can guarantee there is no patient exposure) versus the use of one particular fungicide eagle20 which contains known toxins and a carcinogen which at this time CANNOT be tested for which means you CANT guarantee a patient is not exposed)
my gut tells me it is simple greed ignorance and sloth because it is so simple and effect (being that its systemic)
now lets look at some of the "facts"
now before we disseminate the facts you posted lets look at some of the variables
you are using EAGLE20 not just myclobutanil, the other chemicals change the systemic properties
you know that right?
you are using it on CANNABIS not soybeans, cannabis is not a soybean (it doesn't even produce beans)
now regarding the tobacco "evidence" which is not an apples to apples comparison of EAGLE20 or cannabis but lets use it as a starter
A) after 21 days after application flue cured tobacco (heat cured) STILL retained up to 3.5 mg per kg of myclobutanil at up to 90% dissipation
the tobacco in the field test was bot indoors, your indoor weed is not subject to rain, sun, foliar irrigation, heat curing nor is it grown in the ground with a aquifer
now lets consider the "nominal" amount of mylcobutinal is left after 90% dissipation
potentially 3.5 per kg is that acceptable?
lets see
http://www.codexalimentarius.net/pe...tml?d-16497-o=1&d-16497-s=2&id=181&print=true
Commodity MRL Year of Adoption Symbols Note
Maximum Residue Limits for Myclobutanil
Tomato 0.3 mg/Kg 1999
Strawberry 1 mg/Kg 2001
Stone fruits 2 mg/Kg 2001 Except plums
Prunes 0.5 mg/Kg 1995
Poultry, Edible offal of 0.01 mg/Kg 1995 (*)
Poultry meat 0.01 mg/Kg 1995 (*)
Pome fruits 0.5 mg/Kg 1997
Plums (including prunes) 0.2 mg/Kg 1997 Except prunes
Hops, Dry 2 mg/Kg 2001
Grapes 1 mg/Kg 1997
Eggs 0.01 mg/Kg 1995 (*)
Currant, Black 0.5 mg/Kg 1999
Cattle, Edible offal of 0.01 mg/Kg 1995 (*)
Cattle milk 0.01 mg/Kg 1995 (*)
Cattle meat 0.01 mg/Kg 1995 (*)
Banana 2 mg/Kg 2001
(*) At or about the limit of determination.
notice how things that will be processed like hops or items with skins or shells like bananas have a higher acceptable rate but other items have a very low tolerance
notice NONE of them have an acceptable level of 3.5mg per kg
why don't we take a look at some more of the information you shared
"Over a 12 day period under greenhouse conditions, a constant uptake of myclobutanil from leaflet surfaces into the leaflet tissue was observed. Once in the leaflet, myclobutanil was seen to redistribute throughout the tissue, although no movement out of leaflets occurred owing to a lack of phloem mobility.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18683908"
you left out the rest
it doesn't use the phloem transport (although the naphthalene may facilitate that) it uses xylem transports.
new growth is effected
this is straight from dows spec sheet
http://msdssearch.dow.com/Published...turf/pdfs/noreg/010-60414.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc
"Eagle 20EW works from the inside out and, unlike
some other locally systemic products, it protects
new foliage by translocating to new growth."
ti says the same on the rally 40w product page as well
http://www.dowagro.com/usag/prod/073.htm
Highly systemic action. Studies prove
that the active ingredient in Rally
moves in the direction of new growth
faster than other products"
now what if we look up some other studies like this one
http://md1.csa.com/partners/viewrec...s+of+MYCLOBUTANIL&uid=792008583&setcookie=yes
Systemic movement of myclobutanil in grape vine and soybean plants and implications for disease control
Ouimette, D | Mueller, J | Kemmitt, G | Mathieson, T | Deboer, G | Rowe-Lucas, N
Phytopathology [Phytopathology]. Vol. 95, no. 6, suppl., [np]. Jun 2005.
Myclobutanil is a broad-spectrum triazole fungicide which acts by inhibiting sterol 14-demethylase in sensitive fungi. It is particularly effective on powdery mildew and rust diseases. After application myclobutanil is rapidly absorbed from the foliage and has physical properties that allow for efficient systemic movement in the xylem and apoplast. In an effort to understand in more detail the systemic movement in relation to grape powdery mildew (Uncinula necator) control, greenhouse research was conducted with radiolabled 14C-myclobutanil. Research results demonstrated effective disease control as a direct effect of xylem transport even when applied as two or five 1- mu l droplets per leaf. The systemic characteristics of myclobutanil were also demonstrated from application to grape stems, providing disease control in leaves distant from application zone that correlated with radioactive myclobutanil entering and uniformly moving in the leaves. In addition, disease control was the result of the volatile action of myclobutanil against the fungus, which confirmed previous published research. Field results on mature grape vines mirrored the results found in the greenhouse, in which control of powdery mildew control was achieved from both systemic movement of myclobutanil from stem applications and volatility from application zone to untreated leaves. A similar systemicity profile was also obtained in soybean plants following both stem and leaf applications.
see what doesn't travel on its own becomes vapor and infuses with new growth, i wonder how exponentially the absorption rate is effected in indoor environment
or perhaps a sealed indoor environment
so elipse, mia, mega-yields and kruncbubble answer me this
does the xylem of the cannabis plant allow for translocation of myclobutinal from stem and leaf to bud?
can you test your hypothesis by sending your weeds out to be tested?
do patients deserve a guarantee for 1000s a dollars a pound medicines?
why not at least use something you can at least test for ?
Last edited:
Mia
Active member
Congrats you've finally made a decent post seemingly backed by straightforward supportive references.
WRT your questions, I don't know that's why I am here, to learn.
It's a non issue for me personally I just like to know what the real deal is.If I had more time I would undertake the task to make up my own mind but I don't.
WRT your questions, I don't know that's why I am here, to learn.
It's a non issue for me personally I just like to know what the real deal is.If I had more time I would undertake the task to make up my own mind but I don't.
i havent ever had more than a few spots of pm indoors here in so cal. and i a happy camper i dont need any of this shit indoors.
Mia
Active member
bs.
You pulled that info from the link e420 posted. Don't try some revisionist crap now.
Your other evidence was a bunch of strung together misinterpreted bullshit.
Even this is not the end all argument as far as I'm concerned, as there seems to be unresolved contradictions in the data.
At least you've apparently quit attempting to perpetrate the lie that mycobutanil is carcinogenic. I see you're being more careful with your words.
You made a decent post, for once, don't flatter yourself...
3
332359
Nice post Weird! Not much anyone can say about that but they still will somehow. The question is will growers like Krunch still be promoting poisons so openly thinking its OK.
I don"t know but maybe I am reading this wrong. It sounds to me like they are using a kilo gram and ending up with 3.5mg.
If that is the case I don't use anywhere near that amount. I will need more of this study to change my mind. I need to see the context better.
good post weird, i wouldnt say u put a nail in the coffin of this discussion, but proly proved that u cant prove that eagle20 is safe on cannabis, right?
anyhoo, thats one helluva post w lotsa good info in it, thanks again for that.
anyhoo, thats one helluva post w lotsa good info in it, thanks again for that.
good post weird, i wouldnt say u put a nail in the coffin of this discussion, but proly proved that u cant prove that eagle20 is safe on cannabis, right?
anyhoo, thats one helluva post w lotsa good info in it, thanks again for that.
anyhoo, thats one helluva post w lotsa good info in it, thanks again for that.
lol your a funny dude, I made all the same points in the last thread
i did my due diligence its why its easy for my to continue to defend my stance even when your team of "experts" tries their best to skew data to fabricate an understanding congruent with their use of the product
tell us more how you think its ok for this shit to be on your pot cause that is in essence your "side' of the argument
that eagle20 is safe for weed
lol once again your a funny dude
I said naphthalene is cancerous and its in eagle20 in a concentration twice what is deemed safe in Pennsylvania as per the product label and posted links to cancer and naphthalene.
the mycobutinal is not a known carcinogenic but it is a known toxic
the combination of toxicity between chemicals HAS NOT BEEN TESTED, EVER
what is known is that chemical toxins in combination can have cumulative and exponential toxic effects
go to the EPA's website and then due some due diligence
not only are the various agricultural chemicals untested in combinations but there are many diseases and health concerns that are not tested at all with these chemicals on their own or in combinations
like asthma, a disease triggered by environmental toxins
TRUST ME there is far more danger and evidence to show it
i did my due diligence
in that regard your posts have been nothing but vitrolic and biased and just like in the the last thread none of you answered any of the questions and once again you didn't answer these
like "why not at least use something you can at least test for?"
or "why not use something that isn't toxic and just test for PM?
but i know the truth all too well
Last edited:
S
SeaMaiden
I answered lots of questions. 
Then I posed some of my own.
Is PM really that bad? Is it worse than ingesting E20, or, is it as I'm suspecting and, assuming healthy immune system, ingesting the E20 is worse than smoking PM bud?
Silly questions.
Then I posed some of my own. Is PM really that bad? Is it worse than ingesting E20, or, is it as I'm suspecting and, assuming healthy immune system, ingesting the E20 is worse than smoking PM bud?
Silly questions.
Bro Science has never meant a damn thing to me.... You wanna grow plants like me
PM is a the biggest joke...Ive gotten it once ever and never had it again....step up your game...none of you posted the right shit...here you go...damn I miss Spurr...
Jedi Circle is getting smaller and smaller
http://marronebioinnovations.com/pdf/regalia_tomato_techsheet-west.pdf
http://toptropicals.com/html/toptropicals/articles/cultivation/cirkon.htm
http://www.southernorganicsandsuppl...sandsupply.com/Documents/ODC Labelnew6811.pdf
http://www.jazsprays.com/About-JAZ-Products_ep_7.html
Mia
Active member
Weird,
You have a funny way of rewriting history. The information you just posted you never posted in "the other thread". That info and your argument there was a hodgepodge of misinterpreted data to support an opinion.
In fact, the good info which you posted in this thread came from E420, as you admitted a bit back:
"why don't we take a look at some more of the information you shared"
So for you to turn around and claim you posted that before or have been saying it all along is disingenuous to say the least...
I brought up the issues of naphthalene and cyclohexane in this thread, as well as before, so your insinuation that I am ra ra over eagle 20 is a fabrication. I have expressed concerns over the ingredients more than once.
Regardless, at this time, iirc from the research I've done, none of the agencies whose job it is to regulate e20 in this country have labeled it as carcinogenic or mutagenic, even with the inclusion of naphthalene and cyclohexane. Whether you like that or not you must admit the fact. I'll be happy to retract my statement if I'm wrong.
Mycobutanil is not nice, but it's not a huge issue.
"Myclobutanil is a general use pesticide, and more specifically, a fungicide registered for use on a wide range of food crops."
"Myclobutanil has low acute toxicity"
"Fifty percent of all Myclobutanil use is accounted for by California in its wine and table grape vineyards, strawberry, and almond crops.
Spectracide has no naphthalene(supposedly) and has a stated thirty day harvest window on fruits and vegetables. What happens to your argument then?
The funny thing is I don't even use it. All I am looking for is good info, if you got some then great. Half truths and ego do noone any good.
You have a funny way of rewriting history. The information you just posted you never posted in "the other thread". That info and your argument there was a hodgepodge of misinterpreted data to support an opinion.
In fact, the good info which you posted in this thread came from E420, as you admitted a bit back:
"why don't we take a look at some more of the information you shared"
So for you to turn around and claim you posted that before or have been saying it all along is disingenuous to say the least...
I brought up the issues of naphthalene and cyclohexane in this thread, as well as before, so your insinuation that I am ra ra over eagle 20 is a fabrication. I have expressed concerns over the ingredients more than once.
Regardless, at this time, iirc from the research I've done, none of the agencies whose job it is to regulate e20 in this country have labeled it as carcinogenic or mutagenic, even with the inclusion of naphthalene and cyclohexane. Whether you like that or not you must admit the fact. I'll be happy to retract my statement if I'm wrong.
Mycobutanil is not nice, but it's not a huge issue.
"Myclobutanil is a general use pesticide, and more specifically, a fungicide registered for use on a wide range of food crops."
"Myclobutanil has low acute toxicity"
"Fifty percent of all Myclobutanil use is accounted for by California in its wine and table grape vineyards, strawberry, and almond crops.
Spectracide has no naphthalene(supposedly) and has a stated thirty day harvest window on fruits and vegetables. What happens to your argument then?
The funny thing is I don't even use it. All I am looking for is good info, if you got some then great. Half truths and ego do noone any good.
SURE!! Ill send a bud from every harvest, every strain, for the past 6 months to be tested...
Just give me a place that tests, that I can send them to...
But we both know, this wont happen. IM prepared to get tested, are YOU prepared fr the results?
I to will send some in for testing as well. I don't have anything from more than a couple weeks though. I sold most of it to organic growers who produce crap and need it for their patients. Seems they can not get them the meds they need for their aliments.
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