Can ANYONE name the poison Eagle 20 with the active ingredient Myclobutanil??

[Darth Fader]

...do they test for mycobutinal or for all the chemicals in eagle20

i think the naphthalene is used to increase systemic capacity, it in and of itself is more dangerous ...

No idea. I was just passing along the info. Maybe shoot them an email.

I don't take in a lot of clones, but when I do I treat them and mother them out. I've never had cuts from the moms show PM, and once removed seems a reasonable practice seeing as the flowering plant (and cut even) is all new growth and doesn't contain an original cell from the treated mom. I understand there is nothing at all scientific about that lol.

 

[Neo 420]

Hello all,

So Weird, If you should get PM and initated SAR methods of control, and yet still have PM, what would you use?

minds_I

PS. MAn your avatar is flat phuquing spooky.

You induce SAR's before the plant get pm.

 

[siftedunity]

makes me laugh how the toxin vigalantes like jumping on the eagle20 bandwagon. truth is you cant become a toxicology expert by reading online results on rats. and please rats are not the same as humans. i hate all these rat experiments used as proof for this and that.

 

[YosemiteSam]

mycobutinal is not particularly soluble in water.

naphthalene is simply a non polar used to get it to dissolve, and yes carry it into the plant better.

if you look at Calcium 25 you will find the same type of thing only acectone or methyl ethyl ketone are the non polars used

Solubility - In water at 20oC (mg l-1) 132 A5 Moderate Solubility - In organic solvents at 20oC (mg l-1) 1020 A5 - n-Heptane - 270000 A5 - Xylene - 250000 A5 - Methanol - 250000

 

[Weird]

and thanks for taking things out of context and because you have to make it about you

if everyone was simply "saving" genes and applying this generations out there would be no discussion and you know this

I know you realize the context of these threads and I know you know the use of this product based on the other eagle20 threads of which you are a participant has be the use in veg before flower in medical gardens

let me ask you did you clean your space with it and start over with new moms and grow out over generations?

Is that your personal experience? is it also as a medical marijuana provider? is your application an apples to apples comparison that is being discussed in this thread?

im glad your staunch enough to protect your hypothesis regardless of its relativity to the conversation at hand and im glad your ego is that important to you

 

[coastal]

How is that out of context?

 

[Weird]

How is that out of context?

because most people are using it in veg and hes saying its safe and trying to play it up like thats the use everyone is concerned about

other people arent using it generations out they are using it in an closed environment in closed medium

its pretty simple

 

[coastal]

Honestly trying to figure out what you mean isn't easy at all, because it isn't consistent. I thought there was no such thing as safe usage of eagle20? I thought that anything and everything that had been treated with eagle20 would never be "medicinal quality". Your ramblings are all over the place, from an outside perspective it's pretty hilarious.

 

[medicalmj]

Yosemite - Ok this isn't about eagle 20 but you seem to know a bit about chemistry (and anyone else who does - havent kept up on this entire thread). I posted a q about zerotol's ingredients (27% hydrogen dioxide + 5% peroxyacetic acid), and in particular the peroxyacetic acid. Ever heard of it? Only want to give em a drench to kill any pathogens. Safe???

 

[Weird]

Hello all,

So Weird, If you should get PM and initated SAR methods of control, and yet still have PM, what would you use?

minds_I

PS. MAn your avatar is flat phuquing spooky.

Hello all,

So Weird, If you should get PM and initated SAR methods of control, and yet still have PM, what would you use?

minds_I

PS. MAn your avatar is flat phuquing spooky.

when i had encountered pretty severe pm i was not activating a SARS response in the plants, i learned about that after i noticed the causation

certain factors help insure resistance if not outright immunity to PM

high brix (mentioned at the end of this mini novel) and healthy plant immune system

first and foremost i container garden and one for reasons is health management

i can quarantine or cull a sick or diseases plant easily, i can minimize impact easier than i can with other methods (beds, scrogs, etc)

this is basically what i came up with after battling pm in my garden and it was successful

there after i stared to add simple organic solutions to my inorganic grow to gain the same benefits proactively

let me preface this by saying this method is used under the consideration the plants are ready to flower or in various stages of flowering

first

the white pm you see is spores, you want to neutralize and remove them they are transmitters

lightly spray and then prune off infected leaves (minimize spore, put them into a bucket with high ph water as you cut them off so the spores are neutralized

segregate each plant you treat if possible to a different location with different ventilation be cognitive of your airflow

second

if you can, take the plants out of the room, clean it top to bottom with 10% bleach

air conditioners, fans, filters, ducts and the like are places it my hide so make sure you do your best to clean them.

now I suggest a 3 phase approach to foliars and i will explain what i use

first i use green cure. I have tried baking soda, peroxide, milk and donit feel they were as effective. I also have used dutch master zone which is a chloramines product. I found it burned the plants so I did not use it again (young fresh growth was susceptible at the higher suggested ranges from the manufacturer) .

i did find the maximum dose of green cure can turn the hairs on your plant brown, this may not happen at low dosages, but higher dosages also are better at eradication

you need to saturate them with the green cure

be careful to cover your containers, rez, rootzone, etc because you dotn want high ph run off getting into your root zone

green cure is NOT SYSTEMIC so YOU MUST SATURATE THE WHOLE OF THE PLANT

this is were failure with green cure will mostly likely occur application

after "cleaning" the plants with green cure and letting them cycle a bit 16-24 hours i use something like serenade. Serenade is Bacillus subtilis which is effective but the source actually smells and makes the plant smell

i really liked hydro guard but it was replaced with aqua shield which is a better product it has a good concentration of bacillus subtilus as well as 3 other bacteria without any smell

Bacillus subtilis stimulates the plant immune response.

you can use it foliarly and use it in your feed an inoculate your rhizoshere with it. if its in your root system you are far less likely to get PM as it actually lends to plant disease resistance

now this folair is pretty benign to everything but the PM. I would add surfactant here

be careful not to use something that will change the ph and kill the bacteria in the foliar spray, dont use tap water

i am partial to sm-90 because it reportedly doesn't kill aerobic bacteria (benies in aquashield) (this is my anecdotal experience as well but i do not have a microscope and have not qualified this one myself)

i would use a very small amount of you use a very small amount of 3-5ml per gallon of sm-90 (these are the amounts i have used before). the manufacturers suggested ratio for foliar is heavy and will leave an oil on your plants and i woudl not use it at that concentration

it does contain a small amount of organic alcohol and i might get called out for using a "toxin" here so i suggest you read the product label before you make a decision

now even though its a bacterial foliar remember its at a PH that mildew can grow in

so folair 15 minutes before lights on with it after the green cure cycle so they aren't saturated for a prolonged time and make sure you have proper air flow not just over your garden but over the micro-climate of every plant the water has to evaporate

now for the third step, SILICA

yeah silica foliar is bad ass,

A) it boosts PH so you will be spraying them with high PH r which kills PM (which should be mostly eliminated at this point)

B) it increase the cell wall thickness so PM cant permeate the cell wall with its hyphea (sp*?)

C) its a good source of potassium so it will act as a P booster

you can continue silica foliars for a as well as presenting bacteria to the root zone

in the past i have scrubbed my intake with ozone as a preventive
it is an effective tool used in agriculture and in mold remediation but it has its own health considerations so i do not want to advocate its use

there are some new products with the same and possibly better bacteria you might also want to consider

ACTINOVATE FUNGICIDE (Grey mold, Root Rot, Damping off, Powdery Mildew )

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=239283


now keep in mind that the microbiology induces a SARS response and silica thickens cell walls so as preventives early introduction can protect younger susceptible plants until they are healthy

ime infections can start went he plant is younger and express themselves later over the incubation period

now SARS or the plants immune system is one barometer of plant health, brix is another

do some brix research here and you can find there is an easy way to measure plant health in a different category

plants with a high brix rating aren't susceptible to many of the pathogens we battle

this is why a healthy plant (high brix) with the right microbiology to induce immunity response does not get pm

both of these criteria are met by balanced healthy living organic soil, which is why organic gardens imho tend not to deviate from organics after they gain measure of success

 

[Weird]

Honestly trying to figure out what you mean isn't easy at all, because it isn't consistent. I thought there was no such thing as safe usage of eagle20? I thought that anything and everything that had been treated with eagle20 would never be "medicinal quality". Your ramblings are all over the place, from an outside perspective it's pretty hilarious.

there is no safe usage for something you cant test for

the jury is still out if the testing facilities test for all the ingredients in eagle20 to qualify if this can be achieved

once it is we can know definitively

what i know definitely is i can achieve the same results without potentially adding toxins to a toxin less commodity meant for medical consumption

when asked if i thought it would survive over generations my assumption is no

but then again if that was how it is being used this thread would not exist

please take a look at all the anecdotal use in the kill pm forever thread and you'll see this is not how it is being used

its ok though, keep on attacking my character at the expense of your own ignorance

being able to successfully grow without a turf product doesn't make me a troll

 

[accessndx]

Weird,

I'm not taking anything out of context. Nor am I attacking your character.
You've got yourself whipped up and your panties in a twist for whatever reason. I used your own words and quotes to illustrate only what I initially said, which was rhetorical and required no response whatsoever. It was my own personal opinion based upon my own experience. Factually I defended your position that Eagle was indeed toxic, but disagreed that there was no proper place for it's use in the cultivation of marijuana.

Do let me know when the next parade float sized soapbox shows up so I can stand on it and shout platitudes also.

Just because you dig organic doesn't mean there's no other means of properly doing things.
One other thing about research in general: there's almost always a 50/50 split. Any idiot can find enough evidence to support almost any position on anything, which is what makes alot of it subjective. That's true of medicine, law and philosophy. At some point you just have to decide what you believe more and go with that.

Drawing lines in the sand and measuring dicks at the annual pissing contest is another way to go however.

 

[332359]

Looks like we are getting closer to a point it we can test for everything in Eagle20. I believe that people that feel the views that Weird has just want to know the truth so we can always smoke a safe product. More people may agree that spraying right before flowering could be dangerous and others may agree that it may not be dangerous. There are multiple experements that must be done if there is a testing lab. Outdoor and indoor may differ significantly as well as what stage the plants were treated in. In the end I just hope we get to the bottom of this so growers can know the facts, whoever is right. Its easy to argue and takes peoples words out of context but I think we know the basis of where each person stands. Lets just get to the bottom of this in away where its not so offensive or crazy. Anyway I'm glad to see this discussion here which shows we want to learn.

 

[Weird]

Weird,

I'm not taking anything out of context.

lol yes you are

Nor am I attacking your character.

i don't think you are. i think you are defending your opinion that its safe because you can envision its safe use not because you qualified it as being safe

i see how its being used and question the illusion of safety and proved that in many cases it is an illusion because its residue was not quantified

You've got yourself whipped up and your panties in a twist for whatever reason.

the reason is simple.

i want safe access to toxin free meds for everyone not just myself and those who know me

i think that as a community of providers it starts with us

and as someone who has risked and sacrificed for decades to have safe medicines available for myself and others i'm gonna be fucking vocal about it.

i didn't just jump in for some quick money and if you don't get that level of passion that's on you

if it makes you feel better to tell yourself i'm just drug addled do what you gotta do to keep peace in your mind

my mind isn't weak your not going rattle me or my objective

I used your own words and quotes to illustrate only what I initially said, which was rhetorical and required no response whatsoever.

my own words were as uncertain as yours as it was a guess and as it is not in the context of it's use so it begs the question

your rhetoric is for what benefit? that outside the context of how it is being used there is a potential for safe use?

how about using a mycobutinal product designed for agriculture?

see if we ask that question we have to go back to were did everyone learn about it?

certainly not due diligence, but word of mouth that sprayed like fire regardless of the potential underlying dangers

It was my own personal opinion based upon my own experience. Factually I defended your position that Eagle was indeed toxic, but disagreed that there was no proper place for it's use in the cultivation of marijuana.

a place for eagle20 in marijuana cultivation?

using mycobutinal in an agricultural grade product is pushing the limits but at least it can be tested for

it doesn't mitigate its potential for misuse, thus if its not there it won't posses a latent danger

suggesting turf grade mycobuitinal solution as a cultivation tool speaks volumes about the weight of logic you put into defending your perception

i guess you were in too much a rush to prove a point to consider the real scope of it in the first place

you don't need eagle20 to get the fungicide benefits of mycobutinal

bottom line is if you can't even pick the appropriate product how the can you say your going to use it correctly

anyone gonna tackle that irony?

you didn't use the safe shit to good effect and didn't even choose the appropriate bad shit to use but your qualified to assert your conjecture as fact and try to crucify me as some self righteous freak because i dispute it

its ok keep justifying your perception on the web for the greater good of your ego if ti makes you feel like you are winning

at least im making you happy

Do let me know when the next parade float sized soapbox shows up so I can stand on it and shout platitudes also.

please do bro, im not here telling people im gods gift to the world

on the contrary, if i can grow without what the fuck is everyone else's excuse that's the first thing that goes through my head

if it was that fucking tough i would have bit more sympathy

Just because you dig organic doesn't mean there's no other means of properly doing things.

that is not the point

fuck organics who cares

the point is organically you are not adding toxins that may not
even be tested for, its a null argument

in a sterile environment once you lose control of a variable any dysfunction has the perfect environment to exponentially manifest which calls for the use of artificial measures such as environmental toxins

the plant evolved with living soil so environmental variables are not of the same consequences

if cali pm was THAT deadly all the plants outside woudl be dead and covered

but somehow they aren't

hmm i wonder why

One other thing about research in general: there's almost always a 50/50 split

here we go, if you can't find definitive facts to base your stance on argue that there are no good facts to go by

Any idiot can find enough evidence to support almost any position on anything, which is what makes alot of it subjective. That's true of medicine, law and philosophy. At some point you just have to decide what you believe more and go with that.

you can assign metrics to a given set of circumstance and come
up with a relative measurable differential

that's is the difference between rhetoric and fact

marijuana is non toxic and remains so until you introduce it into it's environment

that is fact

you didn't do it that way

that is fact

my guess is you dont like the facts so you resort to rhetoric

Drawing lines in the sand and measuring dicks at the annual pissing contest is another way to go however.

its not a dick fight,

im not defending my perception for my egos sake

if im such a fucking egotist show me all the other threads where i assert my perception and fluff my being

im just restaing the same facts until someone can refute them with data

i know one thing im making alot of people think

and thats a good thing

 

[Weird]

Looks like we are getting closer to a point it we can test for everything in Eagle20. I believe that people that feel the views that Weird has just want to know the truth so we can always smoke a safe product. More people may agree that spraying right before flowering could be dangerous and others may agree that it may not be dangerous. There are multiple experements that must be done if there is a testing lab. Outdoor and indoor may differ significantly as well as what stage the plants were treated in. In the end I just hope we get to the bottom of this so growers can know the facts, whoever is right. Its easy to argue and takes peoples words out of context but I think we know the basis of where each person stands. Lets just get to the bottom of this in away where its not so offensive or crazy. Anyway I'm glad to see this discussion here which shows we want to learn.

i gotta be honest imhe most modern chemical solutions on agriculture are not superior the natural ones but the truth is so obfuscated that its very difficult to disseminate the truth we are forced to use "bottled" solution's because their value add is directions for use

when you pay for chemicals you are paying a higher premium to grow both monetarily and ecologically

your paying more for the same result and risking more for it
so i feel like its a disservice not to say something

why pay chemical companies to take our money and poison us at the same time when we can do it for less and preserve our ecology

by my observation most of the modern horticultural wonder products have simply substances (bacteria, mycos, aminos, enzymes, carbs) whose properties and efficiencies aware observed in nature and hen brought to the consumer as a targeted solution

 

[Ichabod Crane]

i sacrificed my mind everyone learn about it?

anyone gonna tackle that irony?

crucify me as some self righteous freak because fact is fact im a fucking egotist

im just restaing the same facts until someone can refute them with data

Quoted in 100% correct context. Just saying it for everyone here to read. Lol

 

[opt1c]

state regulatory agencies don't put warnings on products just because... they don't have enough manpower or money to create a nanny state at the ag fertilizer level... u want to know what's up with a product on stop sale google the oregon dept of ag and give them a call... they are very helpful over the phone and it's always nice to get info from the horse's mouth as opposed to the forums when its something as serious as your continued longterm health and wellbeing... but i'm a libertarian when it comes to this shit; buyer and consumer beware; don't smoke what you don't grow and don't grow something you won't smoke... if you're cool smoking poison that's on you... but if you tell your buddies that your shit is organic and u use eagle20 i hope you get hit by a semi in front of your extended family

 

[SeaMaiden]

makes me laugh how the toxin vigalantes like jumping on the eagle20 bandwagon. truth is you cant become a toxicology expert by reading online results on rats. and please rats are not the same as humans. i hate all these rat experiments used as proof for this and that.

What do you think is a better corollary for humans in this scenario? Or, are you suggesting we should be using humans?

Yosemite - Ok this isn't about eagle 20 but you seem to know a bit about chemistry (and anyone else who does - havent kept up on this entire thread). I posted a q about zerotol's ingredients (27% hydrogen dioxide + 5% peroxyacetic acid), and in particular the peroxyacetic acid. Ever heard of it? Only want to give em a drench to kill any pathogens. Safe???

It's another peroxide, probably a lot like PAA (paracetic acid), which is used in food industry for safe sanitization.

EVERYONE should use Google Scholar. It makes you an armchair scientist!

 

[siftedunity]

What do you think is a better corollary for humans in this scenario? Or, are you suggesting we should be using humans?

well there are already humans ingesting this arent there.. some in their food, some smoking it. they could get tested right?

plus im not all for testing on humans, just pointing out that rats are not completely reliable comparison.

peace

 

[medicalmj]

... Wake up all you wannabees prentending that smoking cannabis is safe for your body. Get a life, thats a pathetic wish, sorry if you believe the nice hippy man who tells you smoking pot is good for your health. Pot is both bad for your health and addictive...

WOW! You DEA? Don't know where to start. And don't have time to debunk all the proganda you believe. But you take the time to show me the study and I'll break it down for ya! Here's a little food for thought...

From U of Colorado..."compounds found in cannabis have been
shown to kill numerous cancer types including: lung cancer
[9], breast and prostate [10], leukemia and lymphoma
[11], glioma [12], skin cancer [13], and pheochromocytoma
[14]. The effects of cannabinoids are complex and
sometimes contradicting, often exhibiting biphasic
responses. For example, in contrast to the tumor killing
properties mentioned above, low doses of THC may stimulate​

the growth of lung cancer cells in vitro.."

Also,

Tashkin, a UCLA researcher funded by the National Institute on Drug Abuse, did a case-control study in 2006 comparing 1,200 patients with lung, head and neck cancers to a matched group with no cancer. Even the heaviest marijuana smokers had no increased risk of cancer, and strangely actually had less of a risk of cancer than non-smokers.

[Tashkin] was surprised to discover that those who smoke cannabis alone develop fewer cancers and less COPD than those who smoke nothing at all and those who smoke cannabis with tobacco do better than those who smoke tobacco alone. He concluded that cannabis provides some protective effect against lung damage and particularly the carcinogenic effects of tobacco smoke.
​

One possible explanation for the new findings, he said, is that THC, a chemical in cannabis smoke, may encourage aging cells to die earlier (a process known as apoptosis) and therefore be less likely to undergo cancerous transformation."

​