Can a small seed sample still have adequate genetic diversity to create a seed line?

[Cakeboy]

I am trying to create an auto line. However the F1 generation has only given me about ten small plants from the mainly immature seed I harvested off the Auto Malawi mother plant.
These seeds were pollinated by a cross of mine which was a super silver haze x pink kush X a bagseed I called Mikes bagseed.
My question is this? Do I have enough genetic diversity given the fact there are so many different plants in the cross to confidently go ahead and f2 the best one's to maybe create a line even though I only have a few seed plants to start?

 

[Brother Nature]

I always say go for it, even if you don't end up with anything decent, you've gained experience.

 

[Smokin Sloth]

If I were you, I would let all the girls and boys bloom and pollinate openly. This way you have the greatest diversity in the f2 and can go hunting a bit.

 

[comfy markoth]

If I were you, I would let all the girls and boys bloom and pollinate openly. This way you have the greatest diversity in the f2 and can go hunting a bit.

This ^^

However, if you want to create an autoflowering line you have to consider a few things....

You have to decide if you're going to go for maximum variation and include the photoperiod plants into the next generation and THEN only select AF plants in subsequent generations, or only keep the AF plants (who knows how many you'll get?) and then start selecting.

If you ARE trying to make an AF line, i would remove all of the photoperiod plants, if you have even just a few AF plants to use in an open pollination, but that's just me.... i would want to get stable AF plants as soon as possible and then go from there, because the other option seems like a longer lasting headache.... dealing with photoperiod and AF genetics mixed together for multiple generations.

If all of the AF offspring are rubbish and there are good photoperiod plants, then you might want to take the longer route.

 

[Cakeboy]

cool cheers, this is the ten (11 haha)

so I think I will just veg these till they're all healthy n f2 em and have a look then....then.....

 

[Cakeboy]

thanks brother, smokin, and comfy....

regarding selecting for autos I have wondered whether just letting it all brew together until the auto gene (recessive) comes out (f4 f5 gens) might lock in some more potency ?....

 

[Cakeboy]

If all of the AF offspring are rubbish and there are good photoperiod plants, then you might want to take the longer route.

cheers man, I think i understand, I think the longer route will be better....ta

 

[comfy markoth]

Something you could do, is, once you can tell which ones are AF, separate them from the others.... that way, if you do get some good AF representations you can then make a better informed choice, and save yourself the hassle of going through extra generations of AF mixed with photoperiod, to get them all AF.

Even if you do get some decent AF plants, and cross AF to AF, they still probably won't be 100% AF in the offspring but will be a lot closer to it than if you're messing with a completely random mix of photoperiod and AF.

 

[Nannymouse]

My experience has been that Af x Af will produce 100% Af.

The f1's are precious! You can keep these in clone form to test the lines out. Give them some reasons to hermie, to see if they are stable. Maybe make all female lines by selfing the best f1's, so that you have several lines to cross with each other, to 'freshen things up' in a few generations. It's difficult to know if your lines went hermie, if the females are making seeds every generation. Or if just working with a seedline, you can separate the seeds into groups, and in one group take some females out from the males to test for stability.

It might be very sad to work a line for generations, just to find that you accidentally made a hermie line.

 

[William76]

Auto to auto gets autos cause the works been done,U could make autos, photos,or a fast version if u do it in the first x.i think u should do a little more reading then decide.the fast versions I think finish a week at least quicker than the photos.good luck,76

 

[Old Piney]

So it's my understanding that AF is a recessive trait .If this is the case all the f1 phenotypes will be photo dependant but the f2 generation will show some pure AFs. Because AF is a recessive trait plants that are AF only carry AF genes . My opinion is it doesn't matter so much that your f1 numbers are small , the real selection starts with the f2 for AF and what other traits you want

 

[comfy markoth]

My experience has been that Af x Af will produce 100% Af.

The f1's are precious! You can keep these in clone form to test the lines out. Give them some reasons to hermie, to see if they are stable. Maybe make all female lines by selfing the best f1's, so that you have several lines to cross with each other, to 'freshen things up' in a few generations. It's difficult to know if your lines went hermie, if the females are making seeds every generation. Or if just working with a seedline, you can separate the seeds into groups, and in one group take some females out from the males to test for stability.

It might be very sad to work a line for generations, just to find that you accidentally made a hermie line.

If both the AF parents are stable in their autoflowering.... if you cross two unstable AF's you could get mixed offspring.

 

[mack 10]

definatly. you might be surprised.

 

[troutman]

This pic may help.

F2's is a good place to hunt down new phenos.

 

[comfy markoth]

Yeah, the people saying AF x AF = 100% AF are not correct.... UNLESS both parents have been bred to the point of stability.

If you cross photoperiod plants with AF plants in an open pollination you will get some first generation AF expressing plants that are not going to produce 100% AF offspring, even if pollinated with other AF plants.

 

[Randy Lahey]

I always say go for it, even if you don't end up with anything decent, you've gained experience.

Positive thinking I suppose.

 

[Nannymouse]

I figure that if the plant isn't auto under 24 hour light, it isn't really auto. I've worked with autos for decades, off and on...i've never found an f1 to go auto, and they always act like true recessives. That's just my experience. It works just like troutman's illustration. But, i've only worked with three different auto lines, my old one that goes back to Dykester's first autos(S.O.A.G. and Auto Rocket Kush)and then have worked with Ace's AutoZamaldelica.

I did have a very heavy pre-flowering photoperiod line...even under 24 hour light, but they would never go into true flowering mode. Never considered that one to be an auto. I don't think that i would even think about working with some sort of 'unstable auto', whatever that is.

But, knowing how many types of cannabis are out there, i wouldn't say oddball things can't happen. It isn't getting to be the 'norm' to have unstable autos, is it?

 

[William76]

Yeah, the people saying AF x AF = 100% AF are not correct.... UNLESS both parents have been bred to the point of stability.































If you cross photoperiod plants with AF plants in an open pollination you will get some first generation AF expressing plants that are not going to produce 100% AF offspring, even if pollinated with other AF plants.





Yea,af x af gets u af,s if the works been already done on them,like an auto u buy from a seedbank is supposedly the finished product,so x them u should get autos,but the op will hav to work a few gens to get an all auto all photo or all fast ,it was what I meant by if the work had been done,af x af will get u af,s.76

 

[Old Piney]

.

 

[Old Piney]

Yeah, the people saying AF x AF = 100% AF are not correct.... UNLESS both parents have been bred to the point of stability.

If you cross photoperiod plants with AF plants in an open pollination you will get some first generation AF expressing plants that are not going to produce 100% AF offspring, even if pollinated with other AF plants.

Are you speaking from experience? I'm curious.every thing I read and all the folks experience here is telling me that AF is a straight up recessive trait. That being the case if it has the AF trait it is stable and only has AF genes .That's the beauty of working with recessive traits .Also because the photosensitive trait is dominant over AF ,the first generation from the cross (f1) will be all photosensitive phenos, but I guess as with everything in life there can always be exceptions