Calling all keif masters

[mriko]

When you say the Moroccan language does not have exclusive rights to the word "kief" can you please tell me where the term was used to describe a Cannabis product prior to their use? I know of none.

The only reason they don't have exclusive rights is because of cannabis illegal status (even the black tobacco is, actually). Would the plant benefit from a legal market, then they could get these rights, because only in Morocco (maybe also Tunisia, if anything is left of Takhrouri customs) kif is prepared (still?), and it does come from there.
Just like Bordeaux or Champagne wines. You can grow the cepages used in Bordeaux & Champagne wherever you want, you'll never be allowed to brand your wine as Bordeaux or Champagne, because these are made only in their region of origin.

It's good idea to make nomenclature, but it will be strongly limited as long as the plant remain illegal.

Now this is hilarious assertion. Resin + time -> Hash

Glad to make you laugh, but yes, it is time which turns the resin into hash. Ever compared a fresh, only dried resin, with a 3 to 6 months cured resin ? These are two different products and the former has none-to-only-a-fraction of the organoleptic & therapeutic properties of the later. It's a fact. If you're not aware of this most basic hash-making principle then you have a lot left to learn.

it is a physical separation using screens

If it is a physical separation, then it is not a concentrate. BHO or ISO are concentrate, not dry sieved resin/hash.

Irie !

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

It's good idea to make nomenclature, but it will be strongly limited as long as the plant remain illegal.

Hey, agree to agree on this one. We can call it IC canna-language if you would like. Time for a new thread... lol And because the illegality is sure to stay, there is only one option "ONWARD AND FORWARD"

Ever compared a fresh, only dried resin, with a 3 to 6 months cured resin ?

Yes, I make hash every week. I actually do not notice much difference in pure trichome heads with age. DRY and ICE extractions. It's not like flowers, where you are waiting for chlorophyll to breakdown. There is only trich heads in my concentrates.

Well, once you leave your insignificant county and come to the greatest nation on earth, then you will see what kif (or kief or keif or dry sift or dry screen) is.... American's sure didn't invent cannabis concentrates, but that doesn't mean we won't/don't dictate the language used.. much like every other industry.

Sam! I'm happy to change the terms I use for the sake of consistency in discussion. BUT it seems to me that IC has already defined kief (& kif & keif), and the definition is dry screened (sifted) concentrate.

 

[mriko]

Well, once you leave your insignificant county and come to the greatest nation on earth, then you will see what kif (or kief or keif or dry sift or dry screen) is....

I prefer the greatest hash-making nation on earth, rather than just the greatest nation (which soon will be China by the way...). I know of some Afghani dry sieved gardah who could send lots of tearfull western hash makers back to their mother's bosom.

American's sure didn't invent cannabis concentrates, but that doesn't mean we won't/don't dictate the language used.. much like every other industry.

Yep, and you certainly won't stop to the language used and that's why I am TOTALLY against any kind of legalization coming from the US, I was glad prop215 was refused, and i hope prop19 will be too.

Yes, I make hash every week. I actually do not notice much difference in pure trichome heads with age.

uh ? really ? that is strange... There are strains which have strong organoleptics and psychotropic properties, even without curing, but even for these, curing time improves these properties.
Or maybe it comes from the way you store it, which could prevent the curing process to start ? How do you store your resin ?

I don't make hash everyweek (wish I could !), just once per harvest, but everytime I have sieved freshly dried material, it produced tasteless stuff, with dull effect, not enjoyable. Wait 2 and 3 months, sieve again, the end product is different than 3 months before.

I remember well about a Western Mongolia strain I grew out and harvest early october. I sieved a bit of material as soon as it was dried, and it was a waste. No flavour, foogy mind, headache. Came Christmas and I decided it was good opportunity to sieve what untouched plant material I had left. There was simply no comparison between the two, totally different products. The tasteless headachy resin had turned into a spicey and piney (kinda reminding me of good red leb) smoke, with strong rushes, followed by an as strong couchlock effect.

Irie !

 

[jump117]

Kif is the easiest concentrate to make ever

I thought that the easiest and ancient concentrate of cannabis is charas,
or it should not be regarded as a concentrate because of the cellulose and extraneous dirt?

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

I prefer the greatest hash-making nation on earth, rather than just the greatest nation (which soon will be China by the way...). I know of some Afghani dry sieved gardah who could send lots of tearfull western hash makers back to their mother's bosom.

Doubt it, pure is pure. This is not magic. That was also a joke fyi. Where's the ?

Yep, and you certainly won't stop to the language used and that's why I am TOTALLY against any kind of legalization coming from the US, I was glad prop215 was refused, and i hope prop19 will be too.

Uhhh.... dude... 215 passed like 15 years ago. 19 failed (thank Jah). Look up SB420 while you are at it, our loophole for vending cannabis products. Very interesting legislation.

uh ? really ? that is strange... There are strains which have strong organoleptics and psychotropic properties, even without curing, but even for these, curing time improves these properties.

Cite your source please, lol. And explain to me what is happening over time in concentrates that makes them better. Thanks, this idea, as presented by Sam many times, is generally accepted for concentrates, but IMO this is old info related to crappy un-pure hash.

Or maybe it comes from the way you store it, which could prevent the curing process to start ? How do you store your resin ?

Airtight jar, crammed full in the dark. Just like my herbs. Here is one of my curing vessels.
Here is some super tasty full mely sour diesel ice water extraction:

I don't make hash everyweek (wish I could !), just once per harvest, but everytime I have sieved freshly dried material, it produced tasteless stuff, with dull effect, not enjoyable. Wait 2 and 3 months, sieve again, the end product is different than 3 months before.

That is very interesting. There is something really cool going on here. The best ice water extract come from fresh/frozen material, and the best (as you say) dry screen is from cured material. All I know is instant gratification with my hash making. We harvest, trim it wet, and the trim is being hashed the next day without any drying. I only get to make so much hash because of my reputation as a master of the resin, lol. Is that correct nomenclature Sam?

I remember well about a Western Mongolia strain I grew out and harvest early october. I sieved a bit of material as soon as it was dried, and it was a waste. No flavour, foogy mind, headache. Came Christmas and I decided it was good opportunity to sieve what untouched plant material I had left. There was simply no comparison between the two, totally different products. The tasteless headachy resin had turned into a spicey and piney (kinda reminding me of good red leb) smoke, with strong rushes, followed by an as strong couchlock effect.

Would this be a result of un-pure hash. Could the curing mean your green matter contamination is broken-down? The same way curing makes buds taste better...

 

[Corpsey]

I really have no hook up for good genetics, I highly doubt something I get online could produce the resin I am looking for.

i could understand if you cant grow because of a partner or a living situation / money issues. but yes you could find the genetics on seedbay / seed boutique and find without a doubt the quality you are looking for. could it be done with just one pack, maybe, maybe not.

just trying to help, but i will leave it at that and understand that maybe you just don't want to grow which is fine.

have a nice day

 

[juicepuddle]

Many people do not currently have the ability or setup to grow, I am one of those people. I simply doubt I could find a strain online that would blow me away, when the time comes I will do a ton of research and check grow journals etc, however since I cant grow now no point to me in buying the seeds.

 

[juicepuddle]

Seen this pic many times, its pretty old right? Do you consistently get stuff that looks like this or this blonde? More pics

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

Seen this pic many times, its pretty old right? Do you consistently get stuff that looks like this or this blonde? More pics

There is nothing special about my hash(s). This is a common color for sour d. Some varieties are more blonde, like the romulan I posted earlier. I have pics all over. Making jack herer ice water hash right now... will post up. Orange and red are also common. Bluedream -> orange. Will post pics later... cell phone post.

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

Jp: have you considered growing from cuttings? I see you are in cali. We have world class genetics in abundance via clone-only lines. The very best genetics from any of the seed breeders are equal to our "elite" lines. Remebmer, most of the world class genetics are crosses or inbred west coast lines.... and can be traced back to a transaction between a certain hero and neville.

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

You tell me... what is it?

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

and round 2

and round 2

Again... what are these?

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

Another one because I figured out how to use my phone

Another one because I figured out how to use my phone

And I like these shots too, go droid!:

 

[mriko]

Doubt it, pure is pure. This is not magic. That was also a joke fyi. Where's the ?

eheh, i admit I sometimes, or rather often, have difficulties getting people's joke (and me to make people laugh even more than the joke itself...)

Would this be a result of un-pure hash. Could the curing mean your green matter contamination is broken-down? The same way curing makes buds taste better...

Haaaa, the good old thing about purity. We're not talking about cocaine or heroin here, hash is not about purity. It's much more than that.

I certainly don't have Sam's (or yours it seems) experience and practice at making hash. But obtaining an end product containing enough green matter to alter that dramatically the flavours and potency, that was done for my very very first and very rough tries at sieving and that was back in the old century. My skills have improved since and my first sieves are usually clean.

Curing makes the buds taste better, through the breaking down of chlorophylle, AND through the oxidation of the resin, which is going to induce chemicals reaction (don't ask me which ones) and help reveal the different compounds responsible for this or that flavour, this or that effect, this or that therapeutic property.

Talking about weed curing. I have great difficulties to find strain which have a real effect on me without curing. I have grown only 3 such strains indoor so far able to bring me what i need (again, without any curing time). Still plenty of chlorophylle, but kicking strong and full of flavours (although not full potential because not curing of course).
Other strains need at least one month curing, otherwise they'll bring me nothing else than some basic, standard buzz, even stuff such as sssdh.
Chlorophylle only alters the flavours, no ? Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but I doubt it plays tricks with the effects.

Uhhh.... dude... 215 passed like 15 years ago. 19 failed (thank Jah). Look up SB420 while you are at it, our loophole for vending cannabis products. Very interesting legislation.

uh ? lol ! sorry, I always got mixed with all the numbers. What was that last november vote in California ? 245 ? eeeheheh

Cite your source please, lol. And explain to me what is happening over time in concentrates that makes them better. Thanks, this idea, as presented by Sam many times, is generally accepted for concentrates, but IMO this is old info related to crappy un-pure hash.

Not much source, just personnal experience, again verified end of december with latest indoor harvest, or last outdoor harvest as well. I see it at each and every harvest (always trying new ones).

The three strains I speak about are : SoS (Super Skunk x Orange SKunk), Arne's Hash Plant (or HFH HP) and Zoe (personnal cross containing Vietnam, Yunnan, Uzbekistan & tajikistan genetics). Hmmm, my mistake, I just remembered about a Cinderella99 x Deep Chunk, also good from the start.

Skunk#1, Angel Dust, sssdh, Moham ram, Pure Power Plant and many home-made F1s provide me with nothing but a light standard buzz if not cured.

I can't explain what happens in them resin drops during curing, I haven't done that kind of studies. But it does happen, and oxygen & temps plays a great part in the process (i'm not sure a airtight container really favours an adequate curing, not enough air circulation).

Thanks, this idea, as presented by Sam many times, is generally accepted for concentrates, but IMO this is old info related to crappy un-pure hash.

This is called préjugés. have you ever had the opportunity to visit a country where hash have been produced since generations & generations ?
Our technology make us know a lot of things that the ignorant himalyan farmers ignore about the plant, but their long, usually centuries-old experience in growing the plant, separatin and using the resin has brought them a very good knowledge of it. Go Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kashmir, Malana, Nepal, everywhere the gardah/charas producing people will tell you that curing is crucial, for flavours as much as for effect.

Try Malana, there you can find regular charas full of leaf bits, which is actually better tasting and stronger than many many locally rubbed and much purer malana creams.

That is very interesting. There is something really cool going on here. The best ice water extract come from fresh/frozen material, and the best (as you say) dry screen is from cured material. All I know is instant gratification with my hash making. We harvest, trim it wet, and the trim is being hashed the next day without any drying.

Can't say anything about ice water hash, never made any, so I don't know how it behaves.
But it makes me think. I'm trying to understand why your resin flavours don't evolve with time. Again I'm no expert, but, you make your iw hash with fresh material and there are some terpenes which are water soluble, getting lost with a water separation.
Could these dissolved compounds be somewhat unstable ones, which are supposed to react during the curing (or linked in a way or another to the chemical reactions induced by curing) and bring in more flavours. Since they have been dissolved in the water, then curing brings not much change, since the change inducers are gone with water.

I don't know... just my two cents, this non-evolving resin kinda baffles me, that's weird...
Sam, any opinion about that ?

yaaawn, think I'm gonna go crash with the help of some dry sieved & cured lebanese resin, err, sorry, some blond leb. mwahahahha !

G'night !

Irie !

 

[mriko]

Again... what are these?

err, to be honnest that one looks like a selection of different heroins to me

Irie !

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

Haaaa, the good old thing about purity. We're not talking about cocaine or heroin here, hash is not about purity. It's much more than that.

IMO it starts with purity, and then there is much more beyond that. But 99+% pure is my basis for quality, if not for taste, for ideals. I would argue that hash is not that different compared to cocaine. Both are natural plant extracts of sorts... butane would be crack then, lol, jk, I know how crack is made, that was part of organic chem 2.

...My skills have improved since and my first sieves are usually clean.

Hey, no offense intended. I don't do second sieves... and admit that making ice water hash is a pain in the ass. But it's a labor of love, like the rest of my life.

Curing makes the buds taste better, through the breaking down of chlorophylle, AND through the oxidation of the resin, which is going to induce chemicals reaction (don't ask me which ones) and help reveal the different compounds responsible for this or that flavour, this or that effect, this or that therapeutic property.

I don't understand how the decarboxylation of THC-COOH into THC (what I assume you meant by oxidation) will affect flavor. Sam...?

Talking about weed curing. I have great difficulties to find strain which have a real effect on me without curing. I have grown only 3 such strains indoor so far able to bring me what i need (again, without any curing time). Still plenty of chlorophylle, but kicking strong and full of flavours (although not full potential because not curing of course).
Other strains need at least one month curing, otherwise they'll bring me nothing else than some basic, standard buzz, even stuff such as sssdh.

Valuable info right there amigo.

Chlorophylle only alters the flavours, no ? Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but I doubt it plays tricks with the effects.

You have to consider the aesthetic qualities as well. I've noticed that the difference between 95% pure and 99% pure is major. We have refined palettes. And we eat with our eyes. I have the idea that part of the affects of cannabis are psychosomatic and we feel "what we want to" in a sense.

uh ? lol ! sorry, I always got mixed with all the numbers. What was that last november vote in California ? 245 ? eeeheheh

lol, coming up is jack h 2012 AND another one I forget the name. Both have no chance. Funny story, I worked for a large commercial size garden, the code for their gate was 215, no joke, I was like "these effing guys right here..." lol

The three strains I speak about are : SoS (Super Skunk x Orange SKunk), Arne's Hash Plant (or HFH HP) and Zoe (personnal cross containing Vietnam, Yunnan, Uzbekistan & tajikistan genetics). Hmmm, my mistake, I just remembered about a Cinderella99 x Deep Chunk, also good from the start.

Skunk#1, Angel Dust, sssdh, Moham ram, Pure Power Plant and many home-made F1s provide me with nothing but a light standard buzz if not cured.

great info, thanks.

I can't explain what happens in them resin drops during curing, I haven't done that kind of studies. But it does happen, and oxygen & temps plays a great part in the process (i'm not sure a airtight container really favours an adequate curing, not enough air circulation).

more great info. big up. I never even heard of some of those.

This is called préjugés. have you ever had the opportunity to visit a country where hash have been produced since generations & generations ?

guilty as charged, point taken.

But it makes me think. I'm trying to understand why your resin flavours don't evolve with time. Again I'm no expert, but, you make your iw hash with fresh material and there are some terpenes which are water soluble, getting lost with a water separation.

This is where I get lost. I can understand that the trichome heads have "flavors" on the outside of the heads, and that some get washed away in the IW process. But those same "flavors" are inside the trichome head... so where's the big difference coming from?

 

[juicepuddle]

Jp: have you considered growing from cuttings? I see you are in cali. We have world class genetics in abundance via clone-only lines. The very best genetics from any of the seed breeders are equal to our "elite" lines. Remebmer, most of the world class genetics are crosses or inbred west coast lines.... and can be traced back to a transaction between a certain hero and neville.

Haha I know its here, I simply know NO ONE, also I dont want the shitty clones they are selling in dispensaries, I am gonna do research when I can grow and start with something easy to grow, I will most likely end up getting them online.

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

err, to be honnest that one looks like a selection of different heroins to me

Irie !

lol, I would not know. I didn't even know heroin has a plural form.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Kif is the easiest concentrate to make ever, it's a simple physical separation. 120 cut-off for sativa, 160 for indica.

Thanks Bro!

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

Thanks Bro!

Yeah man, I like to cut off the lower end too. I'll use a 160 and a 40, and let the tiny particles go thru, then scrape that up, it's not great. Then I'll collect the 40 to 160, which is great. The contaminants are in the 0 to 40 grade, and the 40 to 160 is pure goodness. I agitate VERY gently by hand or with a machine designed for this purose, and have also had good results with sonic vibes.