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"Burning" seedlings with organic soil

J

jerry111165

Hi all.

I was wondering what everyone thought about a soil that is rich in nitrogen (or any other type of organic nutrition for that matter) burning young plants. In my experience, I have found that with sufficient microbe activity, and plenty of time for the microbes to break down the soil amendments, that the soil no longer has the ability to burn even young seedlings. I believe that given time, soil microbes can break down even the strongest organic amendments, leaving your soil totally safe for even the youngest seedlings or clones.

I hear all too often of people using lower grade soils that contain insufficient nutrition for veg, and then transplanting once the plant has reached a certain age when all that was needed was sufficient time for the soil to "nutrient cycle" - ie: time for the microbes to compost the ingredients.

What is everybody's thoughts on this?

We were discussing this earlier but I seem to have lost the thread...

Thanks in advance!

Jerry
 
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C

ClackamasCootz

Expired
Veteran
Worm castings, Sphagnum peat moss and rice hulls (or punice) cannot, will not, ever burn any seed, seedling, transplant.

Botany is botany - imagine that, eh?

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J

jerry111165

What about other soil amendments - stronger ones, such as alfalfa or fish meal, for example? I believe that it's simply the soil life and time factor. Why not make one helluva soil and use it from start to finish? Why would you want to make a separate soil for a young plant than an adult plant?

Nature sure the hell doesn't transplant. I see it all over the Internet - people using low grade or malnourished soils because they're scared to burn their seedlings.

J
 
J

jerry111165

I don't think that I've ever seen a corn farmer around here wait until the plants were several feet tall before they manured/fertilized the fields...
 
S

Sat X RB

I 've NEVER burnt seedlings using animal manures. but if the manure is too fresh the seedlings are not going to grow until soil organisms do their thing on the fresh stuff.

but it makes sense that it's possible to make a complete soil to suit go to whoa.

in fact I 've seen recipes for such a thing (somewhere) on this site.

cheers!
 
J

jerry111165

Sat X - my point exactly. I would have absolutely no problem at all dropping seeds into my soil mix, which, by the way, contains mucho compost and vermicompost. If you're willing to take the time, to wait an appropriate amount of time for the soil microbes to get busy munching on you assorted amendments then any of the high-end soil mixes that many of us use are just fine to plant seedlings directly into - in fact they love it and thrive in it.

To me, it makes absolutely no sense at all to make different soil mixes for different stages of a plants life. Make a good soil mix and use it for every thing!

Why start a plant in malnourished soil?

I'd really like to hear other gardeners thoughts on this.

Jerry
 
T

Toes.

I usually start my seedlings in a seed starter tray, with homemade worm castings, screened Sphagnum peat moss, and perlite.

I up-pot when necessary, into my homemade amended soil (using the aforementioned ingredients and then some) and I add any extra nutrients the maturing plants ask for throughout the cycle...
guano/manure teas, hydrolyzed fish, FPE, ACT, and coming through in a pinch, Epsom salts.

I've burned quite a few seedlings though, usually from starting them in the "big girl" mix... this is why I like to start on the lighter side of things.

I don't grow corn though, so I haven't a clue as to how corn farmers get away with spreading manure on seeds or seedlings.
 
J

jerry111165

I don't grow corn though, so I haven't a clue as to how corn farmers get away with spreading manure on seeds or seedlings.

They don't - they generally spread it several months in advance, which gives the microbes the time they need to start breaking it down so that it will not burn.

J
 
G

growingcrazy

Sometimes I fill my seed trays with a scoop from the top of my soil bed. They seem to enjoy it! Also clone sometimes the same way.

Right now I am using 2 parts castings to 1 part DE to start seeds. Works nice also.
 
J

jerry111165

ClackamasCootz said:
You cannot amend your way to a healthy garden if the base isn't together - ever
Click to expand...

By "base", are you referring to the peat and compost components?

Or the soil life itself?

I do wholeheartedly agree that over amending a soil is not the answer. I have definitely come to learn that plants don't need as much nutrition in the way of soil amendments as I used to think that they did. I am more about quality compost these days...
 
P

Pointswest

Member
I have been propagating new cuttings from this year's grow. I was in a hurry and filled a flat with my aged, amended soil, which I mixed in Mar and Apr and has been setting in the pile since mixing.

The flat that had the soil amended with 3 cups of meal mix/cu ft burned all the cuttings within a couple of days of sticking. Thinking it was the hot weather, tried again in the same soil and had total failure. When I made a new cutting mix of only peat, EWC, and drainage, using a 50/50 mix peat-ewc/drainage, cuttings from the same plants rooted easily.

PW
 
J

jerry111165

Well, I know you know your stuff PW. I don't use "quite" that much asstd meals - or maybe my soil is just older?

There's definetly a lot of variables.

What about all the veggie seeds we start directly into our gardens?

Btw - nice to see you.

J
 
Gascanastan

Gascanastan

Gone but NOT forgotten...
Veteran
My experience with a proper soil which replicates a natural balanced soil with high humic levels will not burn anything....ever.

I have a fairly hot compost pile going. A couple weeks ago I roasted some corn on the BBQ. Somehow a few kernels of corn did not get fully cooked and ended up in the compost pile. Within a week they were rooted and growing as if Gawd had planted them there.

Most of the burning issues IME come from blood meal and/or non-composted green amendments added at high volumes to freshly mixed soils which are then planted in directly or not allowed to continue to establish the fungal and bacterial colonies that breakdown that type of organic matter.

My 2 cents~
 
P

Pointswest

Member
Jerry, I mixed my soil hot this year because I ran out of N last year during flowering. My mix has a lot of N in the different meals; kelp,neem, feather, soybean, cottonseed, blood and bone, oyster shell, and alfalfa. This is why I mixed it early in the season.

The mix seems to work well for the older plants, but for cuttings with no roots, it is just too strong.

PW
 
C

ClackamasCootz

Expired
Veteran
jerry111165 said:
By "base", are you referring to the peat and compost components?

Or the soil life itself?

I do wholeheartedly agree that over amending a soil is not the answer. I have definitely come to learn that plants don't need as much nutrition in the way of soil amendments as I used to think that they did. I am more about quality compost these days...
Click to expand...
Jerry

Humus (viable, correctly cured thermal compost and not a bag of crap from Home Depot) with worm castings outperforming anything else - that's what it's about

Dial it in with correct mineralization, aeration (i.e. screw perlite) and bulk (Sphagnum peat moss)

Leave toys like blood meal, bone meal, epsom salts, rock phosphate, blah, blah, blah to the ill-informed

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