Bueno Grows w/ DIY COB LEDs

[Bueno Time]

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/st...kdYPExcbxwTv8MOvJIoyuT68Px9842DJywaAv3H8P8HAQ

BT, your the man! Thanks for the reply. The link above is for a 1750ma diver, would this be as efficient as the 1450 driver. I plan on using the Vero 29 400k. Will 6 of theseedling be good for a 3x4 footprint? What is the closest you can get your 3070 to you tops without damaging them?

Ok Vero 29 4000K 6 COBs is a little on the lower side of quantity of emitters for that size area (12sq ft) but totally do-able with enough headroom to run the modules high enough over the canopy to get good coverage of the entire area. I would run them at 1' or so over the canopy depending on how they seem to be handling the light intensity directly under the COBs and also will need to be kept high enough over the canopy for the light "cones" emitted from the COBs to spread out and cover the whole area.

I got a great answer for you from SupraSPL, he is a member on here too but really never see him on here, hes always on RIU.

SupraSPL said about the Vero 29 at high currents on Alpine 11 coolers.

Hey BT, it would be no problem to run the Vero29 at 2.1A on the Alpine11 even though the fan is relatively low rpm, 5V creates enough pressure to move the air between fins without overdoing it. So in this case low RPM works out in our favor because 5V adapters are plentiful, cheap and easier to load match. Approx power consumption of the Alpine11 fan:
5V = .3W (60mA)
6V = .45W (75mA)
7.5V = .8W (105mA)


You could run it at 5V and get ~2.5%% temp droop. At 6V, ~2% temp droop. 7.5V bumps into the law of diminishing returns with no improvement in temp droop.


From every test I have done so far, the only time I have seen results that would justify running the Alpine11 at 7.5V was when testing CXA3070s at 2.5A. At 5V temp droop was ~4.5-5.5% and at 7.5V it was ~3.5-4.5%.

Also those drivers you linked, Meanwell LPC-60-1750 wont work for our needs for driving CXA3070 or Vero 29 because the output voltage range is only 9-34v and CXA3070 require 37v or a little more to run and Vero 29s I believe a little more than CXA3070s. Also the LPC series are only ~87% efficient max which is a little low, my JHX led drivers I have on my CXA3070s are I believe 90 or 91% efficient and my HLG-185H for my new light will be ~93% efficient (highest I have seen around). I would go for something around 90% efficient for drivers if you can, anything in the mid-upper 80s for efficiency is kind of low for a driver.

 

[myhomeboy]

Bueno, you have more headroom than i do after all, i have 54". I have plenty of vertical room with my 600HPS. I suppose i would run into the same issues as you(narrow beam) with the high power COBs,(Vero 29, CXA 3070).

You seem to be the current authority on this subject, with that in mind, what in your opinion would be the optimal COB setup for my 3'x4'x54" space?

 

[Bueno Time]

Bueno, you have more headroom than i do after all, i have 54". I have plenty of vertical room with my 600HPS. I suppose i would run into the same issues as you(narrow beam) with the high power COBs,(Vero 29, CXA 3070).

You seem to be the current authority on this subject, with that in mind, what in your opinion would be the optimal COB setup for my 3'x4'x54" space?

If you kept the plants a little shorter and bushy or SCROG the Vero 29s should work in your space, the beams emitted ~120 degree from the bare COBs (no reflectors) so they arent necessarily narrow beams of light coming out. A 1 foot gap or so over canopy should allow enough light spread for your canopy. But if you wanted to go with something lower profile like my new build then any smaller Vero series in a higher quantity of COBs (more emitters) will spread your light out more evenly for you. It would cost more though to do it that way for heatsinks and COBs too probably.

 

[myhomeboy]

Should I use the same driver you are using, or is there one you have an eye on with a little more power? Can the millamp of the driver have a direct effect on plant growth? Example, diving a single 4000k Vero 29, at 1450ma, or 1750, 2100? I understand how you are concerned with efficiency, my objective is growing heathy plants, but I don't want to leave any yield on the table.

 

[Dion]

Should I use the same driver you are using, or is there one you have an eye on with a little more power? Can the millamp of the driver have a direct effect on plant growth? Example, diving a single 4000k Vero 29, at 1450ma, or 1750, 2100? I understand how you are concerned with efficiency, my objective is growing heathy plants, but I don't want to leave any yield on the table.

also notice the 3070 runs at higher voltages depending on the ampage(try it with the bin you get)

props to cocogrower for the link

http://pct.cree.com/dt/index.html

 

[Bueno Time]

MHB, the drive current you choose is going to determine the total wattage of each COB (more watts should equal more yield even at a little lower efficiency, just less GPW when less efficient) and also effects efficiency and vF a little as Dion mentioned.

For me efficiency was fairly important because I can only cool a certain amount of wattage in my tent with my exhaust fan setup so if I can get more light per watt (higher efficiency) then it will increase my grams per watt of power (heat). So I have been getting MUCH larger harvests with LED than the 150 HPS I had before. In my case grams per sq ft isnt as much of a concern as grams per watt since I can only handle so much heat (goes hand in hand with wattage) in my grow area. However a higher GPW has also increased my grams per sq ft due to the higher efficiency. I hope that makes some sense.

Considering you were/are using a 600w HPS aircooled currently then you should have no issue cooling anything you will be running in there LED-wise (we were previously talkin ~475w with 6 Vero 29 @ 2100mA each). Check out the chart I posted below on the Vero 29s and see how the drive current directly effects wattage (vF of COB in volts x drive current of COB in AMPs (mA/1000) = watts). Your COBs vF will change a little based on temperature and current, that is not adjustable in any way by you so that will always be what its going to be there is no changing that, so you pick your drive current to adjust wattage.

I dont know of the best quality/efficiency and least expensive drivers to run higher currents, they usually cost more (higher current drivers) check into Meanwells different drivers and find something that has a high enough current for your needs and that has a DC output voltage range that covers your COBs min-max vF range (both should be listed in specs in their data sheets). Also the drivers I am using on my CXAs are no longer available so I wouldnt worry about them too much, try to find what will work best for you (Im willing to help you so feel free to ask about any drivers in question, whether they will work for you or not or whatever).

The Vero 29 numbers are the ones on the right side (left side is Vero 18) and these are "minimum" figures I believe so the actual output and efficiency could/should be slightly higher. Again Vero doesnt bin their COBs like CREE, they only list min and max figures and any COB you receive specs will fall somewhere within that area.

The left column is drive current in mA, followed by factor in % based on test current used by the manufacturer in their data sheets, then lm25c lm50c is lumens @ 25celcius, lumens @ 50celcius (temp effects output, gotta keep them running cool for highest efficency/output), vf25 vf50 is the COBs vf or forward voltage at 25 and 50 celcius (again temp effects this as does drive current), 50c dissW is dissipation wattage at 50 celcius, 50c lm/watt is lumens per watt at 50 celcius (higher lm/watt is more efficient even though lumens is a poor measurement of a light source it serves well for comparison at least on white COBs/LEDs), then finally 50c% is % efficiency at 50 celcius. Hopefully the charts make more sense knowing that info if you may have been a little confused before.

As you can see your drive current effects the dissipation wattage of each COB so ~79w each at 2100mA (~38.4% efficiency) or ~51w at 1400mA (~41.3% efficiency) just for two examples. If you arent too concerned with efficiency then go for a higher mA for more wattage/output from each COB, however I wouldnt go too low on efficiency (lower than HPS efficiency) or you might be better off sticking with HPS especially due to high cost of building a quality LED setup, other than for spectrum choices which LED would still win IMO.

 

[myhomeboy]

Got it! Do you know what the efficiency of a digital 600 watt hps? Just curious, Googled it and didn't come up with anything. I'm about to find a driver.

 

[Bueno Time]

Got it! Do you know what the efficiency of a digital 600 watt hps? Just curious, Googled it and didn't come up with anything. I'm about to find a driver.

Im not positive on that it will vary a bit between ballast and bulb manufacturers but I think I read it is usually somewhere around 36-38%, upper 30s range maybe more on some. Not positive on that though. 600 HPS and 1000 HPS are the more efficient sizes vs 400 HPS being a bit lower efficiency, 250 HPS even lower, 150 HPS even lower efficiency.

You could try to figure out your lumen rating for ballast/bulb combo you have and then divide by wattage to get an idea of lumen/watt compared to what is in the spreadsheets. However HID bulbs dont maintain full lumen output for all that long and degrade somewhat quickly so output will be a bit lower over time as it is used and you are aircooled so there is some loss through the glass as well.

 

[myhomeboy]

Bueno, I cant tell you how much I appreciate this, wish we could sit down and burn one! I got some fire too, no joke. Organic Phantom Cookies, TOxBO/NLH, Sour Cookies!!
The driver you are using HLG-185H, can I drive 2 V29? Will that be 1.95ma per COB? What's your thoughts?

 

[myhomeboy]

I see that you have run some Connoisseur Genetics, worth a crap? I am looking at an ECSDxGSC, by them. I bartered for a zip of Sour Cookies off the street, came from Cali, This shit is the best tasting I have ever smoked, good buzz too, and I'm a pot snob. The SC is supposed to be sourdxgcs, I believe it too, smells and taste like gsc, but big ass nugs.Connoisseur Genetics offers what I hope may be similar.

 

[Bueno Time]

Bueno, I cant tell you how much I appreciate this, wish we could sit down and burn one! I got some fire too, no joke. Organic Phantom Cookies, TOxBO/NLH, Sour Cookies!!
The driver you are using HLG-185H, can I drive 2 V29? Will that be 1.95ma per COB? What's your thoughts?

The HLG-185H-C1400A I have is 1400mA max, would run 3 Vero 29s per driver and is dimmable and very efficient, cost is $70+ shipping each though and not sure how long they take to ship after ordering there is usually an ARO hold on the items where they dont ship immediately almost like a backorder.

You probably want something with a bit higher current for your setup, there is HLP-80H-42 that will run 1 Vero 29 each and are able to be setup to be dimmable, they are $38 each but have a 7 week ARO hold on them too it looks like from Jameco (where I order my Meanwell drivers, might be able to find them somewhere else sooner). They are 90% efficient, power factor corrected, 25.2-42v DC output range, and max current is 1950mA on those, they are open/bare board drivers though not encased or water resistant. Stardustsailor on RIU used them on his 4 CXA3070 build with an arduino that does all kinds of cool stuff, he got really into the details with that fixture he made.

Not saying that's the driver you should get just giving you another idea of what you could use, Meanwell has so many drivers its actually kind of ridiculous haha, I was looking at the meanwellusa webpage yesterday a little and there was a ton of drivers to look through.

I see that you have run some Connoisseur Genetics, worth a crap? I am looking at an ECSDxGSC, by them. I bartered for a zip of Sour Cookies off the street, came from Cali, This shit is the best tasting I have ever smoked, good buzz too, and I'm a pot snob. The SC is supposed to be sourdxgcs, I believe it too, smells and taste like gsc, but big ass nugs.Connoisseur Genetics offers what I hope may be similar.

The CSG cookie crosses all seem pretty bomb from pics Ive seen should be at least one "keeper" per pack. OJD has pics of the Diesel Dipped Cookies and ECSD Cookies (and some of the other cookies crosses) in his albums looks nice.

Heres a link to his albums lots of beauties in there.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?u=1768

 

[myhomeboy]

Sweet, thanks!

 

[myhomeboy]

http://pge.powergatellc.com/product_info.php/products_id/5176

Bueno, I ordered 2 of these.

 

[myhomeboy]

Check out this graph. It looks like 42v is too much for the Vero 29.https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment.php?attachmentid=303669&stc=1&d=1423310027

 

[Bueno Time]

Check out this graph. It looks like 42v is too much for the Vero 29.https://www.icmag.com/ic/attachment.php?attachmentid=303669&stc=1&d=1423310027

The Vero 29s will be fine on those drivers, the max DC output voltage from the driver (max the driver can put out voltage-wise) is rated as 42v but will only put out what the voltage the COB runs at.

 

[Bueno Time]

Finished up my multi-Vero setup and the reds LED string too. Veros only running on HLG-185H-C1400A,I measured a max draw of 215w at full current, but right now Im running it dimmed at 140w draw measured with Kill-A-Watt if I want to run higher I should/would need to put the 50mm fans on 1 per Vero bar to keep the sinks/COBs cool. Pretty cool thing is the driver is rated at 200w and it puts out a good bit more than rated current to compensate for me not having fully maxed the vF capability of the driver, in order to maintain the rated output wattage, Mean Well kicks ass! The reds run on a seperate driver passively cooled at full current constantly/non-dimmable on a separate AC power cord so I can plug and unplug to turn on/off the reds separately.

Here's the COBs and LEDs all wired up ready to go. Testing the amount of red LEDs to use so they are just kapton taped with thermal paste for now and will drill/tap and screw mount them when that is finalized to my liking. The Veros and the heatsink bars are all drilled and tapped with mini allen head screws. I have an extra safety ground wire running from the fixture aluminum to share ground prong with the driver, since the driver is high voltage, better safe than sorry (or dead!).

A poor picture of some of the LEDs running.

 

[Bueno Time]

Heres the plants currently under them now on day 12 12/12, not looking so hot, I think the carbon/biochar I put in the mix this round may be the culprit but unsure. I have also identified 6 males and 3 females so far of the 15 plants. Best male TPOG (assuming I get one) will be used to hit some TPOG females (3 are female of 5 so far), 3 of 4 Starkiller are males hoping for the 4th to be female, 2 of 3 Sour Bubble F2s are males as well also hoping for the 3rd to be female, and 1 of the OX F2 is male hoping one or both of the others are female but they are so short too and the strain requires a longer veg time than it was given.

Here you can also see the top of the heatsink bars I like how it turned out fairly clean for how much wiring, quantity of emitters, and shit that is all going on. Lots of tedious work to build this, all the soldering, trimming wires to fairly precise lengths then stripping the ends and tinning them before soldering on, and also I wont forget about the PITA of drilling and tapping each hole with a hand drill (no drill press FTL). Never again without a drill press haha, no joke I was hating myself for the design using so many individual COBs creating more work and time to build than anticipated but overall not too bad.

With Flash

No Flash and adjusted white balance to show spectrum color better for pictures

 

[Bueno Time]

And I tested the reds only (Veros off) and for fun I took some pics to see how things are with only the 630nm and 660nm red LEDs running. When I had the 4 450nm LEDs running in the string previously, used along with my CXA3070s, there was red, blue, and purple (to the human eye) areas of lighting now its all just pure red and looks a lot different I thought it was cool.

 

[myhomeboy]

Sweet

 

[Dion]