Brewing my first batch of tea
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islandgrow
Member
hey ripshot
In my experience and from what I've been told ph of compost tea does not matter.It can swing which ever way the bacteria grows.
In my experience and from what I've been told ph of compost tea does not matter.It can swing which ever way the bacteria grows.
C
CT Guy
I haven't watched Bruce's video all the way through, just glanced. I'll try and check it out this weekend. I have watched some of the others on there, and they're full of misinformation. Bruce's should be a little better.
By the way, I think we're the ones who won the "Tea competition" that Elaine put on.
C
CT Guy
Okay, went back and watched the 1st of 4 parts of Bruce's youtube video. Couple of thoughts:
1. That $10 pump is not even close to strong enough in regards to air output. I could never recommend that!
2. The airstones he's using are going to need to be disposed of or cleaned with a strong acid, it's not the best option, unless you use high quality airstones (talk to Microbeman).
3. I'd never call it "magic juice," but that's just me....
4. You don't want a sealing lid, as that would inhibit O2 exchange.
5. I do like that he runs air directly into the bag with the compost, this is CRITICAL.
6. Compost should be measured by volume, not weight, as weights will fluctuate on compost due to moisture content. I'd recommend somewhere between a cup to 1.75 cups based on the quality of your compost and brewer design.
7. Guess we won a different tea competition after listening to his dialogue. No offense BC, while is info. is not poor, it's not great either. I'm not convinced his brewer would stay aerobic and maintain DO levels based on the design and pump he's using. I'll have to watch the other videos to see what info. he gives out.
1. That $10 pump is not even close to strong enough in regards to air output. I could never recommend that!
2. The airstones he's using are going to need to be disposed of or cleaned with a strong acid, it's not the best option, unless you use high quality airstones (talk to Microbeman).
3. I'd never call it "magic juice," but that's just me....
4. You don't want a sealing lid, as that would inhibit O2 exchange.
5. I do like that he runs air directly into the bag with the compost, this is CRITICAL.
6. Compost should be measured by volume, not weight, as weights will fluctuate on compost due to moisture content. I'd recommend somewhere between a cup to 1.75 cups based on the quality of your compost and brewer design.
7. Guess we won a different tea competition after listening to his dialogue. No offense BC, while is info. is not poor, it's not great either. I'm not convinced his brewer would stay aerobic and maintain DO levels based on the design and pump he's using. I'll have to watch the other videos to see what info. he gives out.
This what I was trying to say (what CT Guy said). I did not think he had changed the pump recommendation. BTW one cannot tell the difference between aerobic and anaerobic bacteria with a microscope. You need to count on the amount of air you are pumping in to acheive a high enough DO2 so you are encouraging aerobic growth. As far as I'm concerned a Tea Competition should be based on measurement of DO2 and measurement of bacteria/archaea: flagellate/naked amoebae ratio along with quantity and diameter of fungal hyphae. Maybe I'll look into the U-tube thing.
hmmm...
hmmm...
In the first of the six ( DIY ) clips towards the end, some girl asks him what DO level he prefers, he said it's supposed to be 6, but with the cool weather he was getting them in the high 7's low 8's. He said he's not jus playin around here, he tests his teas with a DO meter and a microscope. For what that's worth? lol.... Do ya reckon he's lieing about it?
He also said that in that competion thing that his and the guy that won was the only tea that wasn't anaerobic after 4 days* according to doc Ingham.
How could he even have placed in a brew off much less kept it from going for 4 days without going anaerobic using that pump? If he's lieing about what was said by Dr. Ingham in such a public way, it looks like some one would have called him on it by now?
Somethin else that always puzzled me is how these folks on this forum ( me included ) have always used aquarium pumps to make teas that smell jus fine, shouldn't they smell bad if there's not enough air? Also, if they were anaeorbic and fed to the plants over and over it should kill the plants? it doesn't though, they grow like crazy. I've wondered about this from the day I read the info on Microbemans web site over a year ago. How can this be guys?
Oh, while I'm thinking about it. Why should you not put the air stone in the bag itself with the compost? is it too rough on em? and again, how did it work for that Bruce guy in the sample Dr. Ingham tested?.... Also, why couldn't you soak those air stones in a 50% h2o2/water solution to clean them? Wouldn't that be enough to kill any residual bacteria left on them?
Have a good week end! BC
hmmm...
In the first of the six ( DIY ) clips towards the end, some girl asks him what DO level he prefers, he said it's supposed to be 6, but with the cool weather he was getting them in the high 7's low 8's. He said he's not jus playin around here, he tests his teas with a DO meter and a microscope. For what that's worth? lol.... Do ya reckon he's lieing about it?
He also said that in that competion thing that his and the guy that won was the only tea that wasn't anaerobic after 4 days* according to doc Ingham.
How could he even have placed in a brew off much less kept it from going for 4 days without going anaerobic using that pump? If he's lieing about what was said by Dr. Ingham in such a public way, it looks like some one would have called him on it by now?
Somethin else that always puzzled me is how these folks on this forum ( me included ) have always used aquarium pumps to make teas that smell jus fine, shouldn't they smell bad if there's not enough air? Also, if they were anaeorbic and fed to the plants over and over it should kill the plants? it doesn't though, they grow like crazy. I've wondered about this from the day I read the info on Microbemans web site over a year ago. How can this be guys?
Oh, while I'm thinking about it. Why should you not put the air stone in the bag itself with the compost? is it too rough on em? and again, how did it work for that Bruce guy in the sample Dr. Ingham tested?.... Also, why couldn't you soak those air stones in a 50% h2o2/water solution to clean them? Wouldn't that be enough to kill any residual bacteria left on them?
Have a good week end! BC
"Somethin else that always puzzled me is how these folks on this forum ( me included ) have always used aquarium pumps to make teas that smell jus fine, shouldn't they smell bad if there's not enough air?"
This is not based on smell but on what survives in under or over 6 PPM DO2 and is according to Elaine and others. Like I said, you cannot discern anaerobes from aerobes microscopically.
"it looks like some one would have called him on it by now?"
Maybe you just did
At one of the brew offs it was (as I heard) discovered the winner had dumped some stuff in his competition's brews and did something else but the judges still allowed the results to stand. I'm shaky on this information so I'll try to find it to post.
"he said it's supposed to be 6, but with the cool weather he was getting them in the high 7's low 8's. He said he's not jus playin around here, he tests his teas with a DO meter and a microscope"
Why did he not have his microscope and O2 meter with him? When CT Guy and I displayed brewers at the Seattle garden show, we had the microscope right there showing what microbes were emergent at what time periods. I would normally also have my DO2 meter but it was broken at the time.
"Why should you not put the air stone in the bag itself with the compost?"
Huh? This is exactly what CT Guy said was good about Dooley. >>""5. I do like that he runs air directly into the bag with the compost, this is CRITICAL"" >stated by CT Guy. I also recommend this on my page
"Also, why couldn't you soak those air stones in a 50% h2o2/water solution to clean them? Wouldn't that be enough to kill any residual bacteria left on them?"
It is not me who puts down air stones. It's Elaine. And harshly so. [check recent literature. Elaine does not support the aquarium pump 5 gal brewers; we all learn over time but some cling to stuff shown to be inadequate] I recommend glass bonded Sweetwater medium bore air stones because the microbes don't eat them like cheap aquarium stones. I've had them eaten in one week.
C
CT Guy
BC,
Good questions, I'm glad that we have forums like this where we can all share our experiences and opinions.
Here's what knowledge I have on the subject, though I don't have a ton of time now, I'll try and craft a quick response.
1. While Bruce is correct about DO levels, from my experience using different pumps (and Microbeman has more experience than me in this area as he's tested many more pumps), is that simple $10 aquarium pumps may work for a gallon or less, but don't have the output to do much more than that. Now if you just put in a good compost and didn't add any "foods" you could probably maintain a decent DO level, but even then I feel like it would be below 6. These pumps just don't push much air! When you start looking at these teas under a microscope, you can see a dramatic difference in tea quality based on DO levels.
2. You would never want to brew 4 days. I've done it at tradeshow with Microbeman and it doesn't work. Even with added foods, you see much more monocultures and loose much of your diversity. There is a "sweet spot" in every brew and it's usually between 20-36 hours.
3. Why aren't the teas you and other have been making hurting the plants? Well, there are a bunch of variables that could be affecting your results. For starters, you may have made a neutral or slightly beneficial bacterial tea, provided you didn't overdo it with food resources. Secondly, there are many aerobic bacteria in the soils to outcompete any facultative anaerobes you may have brewed up. In essence, the soils you guys use are typically of the highest quality, which would lend to greater disease suppression and better plant health (your tea may not be having a beneficial effect). It's plain when using a microscope as to the difference in tea quality, but as for your plants, well if the soil is already chalk full of aerobic microbes, additional microbes may or may not have much influence on your plant.
4. Airstone in the bag with the compost is fine as far as I know (we don't use them), but they are difficult to clean (I've seen photos as to how they look after brewing and it's pretty nasty). Cleaning can be problematic, I know Microbeman has a recommendation in regards to types and cleaning materials. I don't have much experience with them, as we don't use them in our brewing systems.
5. I'm not calling Bruce a liar, I just am speaking from my own experience here. I haven't had the same results with those types of aquarium pumps and I know that others in the industry have spoken of similar problems.
First, I wanted to ad to my other post, that what I have said is based on what other people have established and what I have measured using a variety of aquarium pumps. Also, I have not said that using an aquarium pump in 5 gallons is necessarily going to create something that will be bad for your plants. It may indeed be beneficial as BC pointed out but it is not efficient/sufficient to sustain 6 PPM DO2 levels in 65 degree water; water at <35 PPM TDS; compost at 3%; molasses at 0.5%
JK: I can't remember if it was in this thread but where I originally stated that you cannot discern aerobic 'bacteria' from anaerobic bacteria using a microscope, I also stated, this is why it is important to have sufficient air flow to sustain sufficient DO2 to select for aerobic bacteria. There are other indicators, one of which you know is smell but using the microscope, if you see an abundance of ciliates, there is a chance it is trending to anaerobic. Bacteria can only be identified through more complex testing methods, including DNA. This is how Archaea were discovered. Previously they were called bacteria.
The importance of the microscope is to check for the three groups of microbes you are trying to multiply;
1/ bacteria/archaea
2/ protozoa (flagellates, amoebae, ciliates)
3/ fungi (hyphae strands)
These are all extremely easy to tell apart. When you have the numbers you want, you apply.
Here is an edit: I found what I said previously and it was in this thread. I'm not going crazy after all. Here it is;
JK: I can't remember if it was in this thread but where I originally stated that you cannot discern aerobic 'bacteria' from anaerobic bacteria using a microscope, I also stated, this is why it is important to have sufficient air flow to sustain sufficient DO2 to select for aerobic bacteria. There are other indicators, one of which you know is smell but using the microscope, if you see an abundance of ciliates, there is a chance it is trending to anaerobic. Bacteria can only be identified through more complex testing methods, including DNA. This is how Archaea were discovered. Previously they were called bacteria.
The importance of the microscope is to check for the three groups of microbes you are trying to multiply;
1/ bacteria/archaea
2/ protozoa (flagellates, amoebae, ciliates)
3/ fungi (hyphae strands)
These are all extremely easy to tell apart. When you have the numbers you want, you apply.
Here is an edit: I found what I said previously and it was in this thread. I'm not going crazy after all. Here it is;
ok cool, i am already looking for those in my scope with great success no problems there. i was just wondering if there was an easy way to tell if a brew had gone anaerobic( other than smell of course ). seems like that would be one point of having a scope. to me at least. i read that quote, thats what got me to wonder in the first place.
at what point of the amount of ciliates do you confirm the brew has gone anaerobic.
at what point of the amount of ciliates do you confirm the brew has gone anaerobic.
Well, that is dependent on how many flagellates there are as well but generally if you are seeing 3 or more ciliates per 20X field if you also have 20 flagellates you may be are trending towards anaerobic but if you see those ciliates and no flagellates you probably are anaerobic or at the beginning stage of the brew where occasionally you get some extracted rather than multiplied ciliates.
redlevels
Active member
I want to know how you keep animals like rabbits adn others from eating your plants???
Well the tea obviously didnt set them back at all. I think I'll brew up another batch.
CT Guy
Will you be attending the Farwest Show this year? It's one of the largest trade shows for nursery stock growers.
It could be well worth your time.
CC
Will you be attending the Farwest Show this year? It's one of the largest trade shows for nursery stock growers.
It could be well worth your time.
CC
C
CT Guy
I've been looking into it, but it's a pretty expensive show to display at, and unless someone like Jeff Lowenfels were speaking, the general public doesn't have enough knowledge to know what we do or the role biology plays in organics. I'm looking at doing The NW Flower and Garden Show and Max Yield next year hopefully.
CT Guy
The Farwest Show isn't really geared to the general public but rather the nursery stock industry. This year there are 850 exhibitors. It might be worth just attending the show and see the scope for future planning.
Though this year is the worst for nursery stock growers on the West Coast with the downturn in the economy the orders for plants is off by over 55% for the usual product lines like junipers, bushes, etc. Pretty sad.......
CC
The Farwest Show isn't really geared to the general public but rather the nursery stock industry. This year there are 850 exhibitors. It might be worth just attending the show and see the scope for future planning.
Though this year is the worst for nursery stock growers on the West Coast with the downturn in the economy the orders for plants is off by over 55% for the usual product lines like junipers, bushes, etc. Pretty sad.......
CC
