breeding with "Fast flowering" strains

[grod31]

I dont mean classic fast flowering like Williams wonder.
What I mean is the new "fast flowering" variates that are auto X photo but stabilized back to photo.
If you knock one up with a true auto is it the same thing as going auto X photo?
Or does the previous introduction of auto genes up the percentage of autos in the first generation ?

 

[gorilla ganja]

(auto X photo) x auto = 50% auto 50% photo

 

[grod31]

okay with that said what about "Fast flowering" X auto?
sorry i misread the parentheses

 

[Maria Sanchez]

I think most of the 'fast flowering' seeds sold at the big name seedbanks are just F1s, auto x photo, and not stabilized back as photos at all.

Crossing one with a true auto isn't the same as crossing auto x photo:

Crossing a fast flowering with an auto will give 50/50 grow as auto / photo.
So, yes, 'the previous introduction of auto genes up the percentage of autos in the first generation'.
But those 'photo' phenos still have a recessive auto gene hidden in them.

Pa x aa
-->
Pa | Pa | aa | aa

Crossing a true auto with a photo will give you 100% growing as a photo.
The first generation will not have anything grow as an auto, they will be photo phenos.
But all those photo phenos will have a recessive auto gene hidden in them.

PP x aa
-->
Pa | Pa | Pa | Pa

Anything with a P in it will be a photo pheno, ie. grow as a photo plant.
It needs two 'a', i.e., aa, to be an auto pheno and grow as an auto.

 

[Popey]

I believe that the faster flowering of foto x auto strains is greatly exaggerated. I grew the Purple Maroc (FS) and Purple Maroc x Auto strains several times in the same place, next to each other, and the ripening speed was comparable, with a maximum difference of 7-10 days.

Besides, I think that foto x auto is a way to make money on a semi-finished product that was used to create autoflowering strains xD If the breeder created an automatic strain, he had to cross the foto x auto strain in F1, only in F2 can auto plants be found. What to do with F1 produced during the production of the auto strain? Throw it in the trash? Let's make money on this

 

[Nannymouse]

The advantage of the 'fast' version (f1), is that it can still be held as a mother. It can be fully tested out, with repeated clone grows, plus selfing, and outcrossing. If that 'special' 'fast' mother is kept, a breeder can always go back to that. Let's say that i have an excellent 'fast' pheno. I could self her, breed that progeny together, which should produce 25% full-on autos to make a fem auto line. Now, i would not be getting many autos out of that, cuz i couldn't grow out thousands. Say, something went wrong and lost that little first batch of autos...i could go back to that 'fast' female to do it again, because she was being held in mother-stasis. The 'fast' mother cuttings could also be shared, so that the basis of the line is kept by more than one person.
Yes, a person could go back and do the original auto x photo, but would need to search through the f1's all over again, and may never find 'that' pheno.

Now there are so many nice auto 'strains', i don't know how important this would be, these days. But if attempting to create a completely 'new' line of autos, those f1's would be gold.

I'm definitely okay with people selling the f1's, for the purpose of creating new autos or shortening flower times(i've read that with the longer flowering plants, it can cut flower time by maybe two weeks. Where i am, one or two weeks can be crucial.)

Am a bit concerned that the f1's would be crossed back to photo again, and 'let loose' to the public, as somebody isn't going to be happy if down the line, an auto pops up, unexpectedly.

Gosh, i hope that this made sense. Not finished with second cuppa coffee, yet.