breeding for terpenes

[q3corn]

I don't believe cannabinoids and terpenes are an either/or. LED lighting brings out the terpenes better according to side by side comparisons (and has been my experience). I believe LEDs are great for pheno selection when it comes to smell and taste.

Why would lighting type effect the traits being produced by a plant?

 

[Hrpuffnkush]

DJ talks about frequency's affecting flavors and smells " terpenes" in his cannabis breeding book , when I do a complete terpenes test I can see the relashomships between the parents and off spring , kinda like a primitive DNA profile .,
I think terpenes react like film , unexposed film can be exposed by heat or light in its canister, "ie " just because the top of the plant close to a light feels cool under light , light intensity affects terpenes in same way as heat ... If that makes sense lol

 

[bambi]

Three tomatoes are walking down the street pappa tomato, mamma tomato, and a little baby tomato. Baby tomato starts lagging behind. Poppa tomato gets angry, goes over to the baby tomato, and smooshes him... and says, "Catch up"

I think I get the pun ? - playing catch/up or in sauce terms ketchup, shame its illegal to squash those little out of shape hobbits used on peter jacksons most immature movie to date, fuck I can not stand hobbits for some reason, sounds awful of me I no, but dam when I see one I shutter with Arrghh he must die we alone are best, ha - got that from a old airplane war dog fight sung on one the bloodhound gangs album - a fierce beer roller coaster I think.

 

[Thule]

Why would lighting type effect the traits being produced by a plant?

Light intensity and heat. A hps tends to evaporate some of the more volatile terpenes while an LED or fluoro is much cooler with less infra red.

 

[PuaManaOhana]

Great threat!

We love our terpz in Hawai'i to ;-)

Aloha a hui hou 'Ohana

 

[JacFlasche]

OK now this sounds plausable...

So maybe a plant has a set of Terpenes it can "possibly" produce and the better it is grown or the more "happy" the plant is, more of the terpine profile is exhibited. So I wonder if you grow something poorly will the terp never be produced or its just so little its negligible. Conversely, can you dose it with sulfur or something else to produce a terp it would not have otherwise.

I know stuff smells different when different people grow it but is that from actually having different smells or just from having different concentrations of the same smells?

Thanks for the input everybody

Many years ago I got a hot GPS antena for my pocket pc (now called a phone) I decided to test the Geo survey maps I dowloaded onto it in some of the surrounding state parks by planting a seedling here and there and marking them in the GPS and allowing it to find them again.
So I used this F5 Jack Herrer offshoot for every different little environment and at home outside in pots. The pot planted in the wild had a very different terpine profile and pretty much to one degree or another reflected its microenvironment.
Some of it to a much greater degree than other plants.
This would seem a really complex issue to me with all kinds of possible variables, like synergistic relationships with other local plants and fungi.
Overall the plants planted in the wild environments had a more complex and prevalent aroma than their potted sisters. Unfortunately at the time I didn't do clones, but it was all seed from the same line-bred sativa dom hybrid.

 

[JacFlasche]

Organoleptic tests will reveal little about the %'s or terpene contents of the over 130 terpenes, and total yields are so affected by the environment and harvest dates that it is hard to eliminate variables.
You need analytical testing to be honest. Breeding requires it.
-SamS

Is there a flow chart of some sort that explains how to use such testing in the most productive manner?
Is this testing something that a noncommerical breeder could afford?

I'm sure most of us have come across really superb and unique qualities in herb that we would love to reproduce. Personally I would have trouble even describing something like the aroma of the plants that I think smells like nirvana, or that kind of ethereal musk that some punta roja had in the seventies. I don't know how I would even go about determining if it was a terpine profile or the result of some one-off environmental insult during shipping that caused a microbe to -- well you get the gist of it.

How to even start such a project is a real question for me.

 

[Betterhaff]

Many years ago I got a hot GPS antena for my pocket pc (now called a phone) I decided to test the Geo survey maps I dowloaded onto it in some of the surrounding state parks by planting a seedling here and there and marking them in the GPS and allowing it to find them again.
So I used this F5 Jack Herrer offshoot for every different little environment and at home outside in pots. The pot planted in the wild had a very different terpine profile and pretty much to one degree or another reflected its microenvironment.
Some of it to a much greater degree than other plants.
This would seem a really complex issue to me with all kinds of possible variables, like synergistic relationships with other local plants and fungi.
Overall the plants planted in the wild environments had a more complex and prevalent aroma than their potted sisters. Unfortunately at the time I didn't do clones, but it was all seed from the same line-bred sativa dom hybrid.

Unfortunately there was no control because you were using seeds and there may be variability there, even though they were inbred to F5. I agree that environment is a factor though.

 

[JacFlasche]

Unfortunately there was no control because you were using seeds and there may be variability there, even though they were inbred to F5. I agree that environment is a factor though.

Well in a strict scientific sense you are correct, but it was such an obvious and pronounced difference that I certainly gained enough data to for my own conclusion. The plants that grew associated with disrupted (SA fault) redwoods smelled just like the surrounding woods.

I have bred not only plants but leopards, amurs, hybrid cats, leopard cats, etc. Usually breeding the offspring to each other is referred to as line breeding. I worked a little with the NIH providing feline leukimia immune bengalensis bengalensis for their program (no inhumane experiments just major checkups and genetic studies), the funny thing is that maybe they should have been looking at the plants that I now breed and not the felidae that I did then in their effort to cure leukimia.

 

[Betterhaff]

I have bred not only plants but leopards, amurs, hybrid cats, leopard cats, etc. Usually breeding the offspring to each other is referred to as line breeding. I worked a little with the NIH providing feline leukimia immune bengalensis bengalensis for their program (no inhumane experiments just major checkups and genetic studies), the funny thing is that maybe they should have been looking at the plants that I now breed and not the felidae that I did then in their effort to cure leukimia.

Do you think there are sex linked traits with plants?…plants are a whole different avenue but similar principles apply.

 

[baduy]

If I was to breed for terpenes first thing I would try would be to get in contact with a professional "nose", not sure about the english term but that's the guys who create perfumes. Our 140 terpenes wouldn't be much of a challenge for someone good at that. There's a reason why you still need humans in the process to make great perfumes even if it all can be quantified by lab tests

 

[nepalnt21]

My goal is to keep the quality we love about OG but get rid of the,
as "RobertC" put it , wet towel slap in face high . The effect of OG is not the best... , so ive been teaching myself about terpenes and how they effect the high , joping to change it up some , im happy so far with results.. and in process found other clues to related plants

that's very interesting. in my experience, the wet towel smack the the face is the most redeeming quality of an og kush strain. what effects do other people look for with OGs?

also, what's the wet- towel terp? i noticed that a bunch of chemdog relatived have high nerolidols, not sure if that's it. also myrcene and limonene, but what strains don't have lots of that?

*edit* looking back, maybe caryophyllene? one of my favorite terps

 

[Drewsif]

Backwards. Breeding for terps is what killed Mj quality. Loud Cannabis is low terpene.

Cannabis was deskunked for commercial purposes, yes. First by changes in fertilizers, microbes no longer breaking starches into fatty acids. 2nd, by breeding 3 recessive mutant alleles responsible for fatty acid desaturase, which is the key player in natural weed aromas/flavors (skunk, armpit, feet, vagina of goddess) Skunk is not a mutant or recessive, as some claim. Skunk is the rancid nature of natural Cannabis, back when Cannabis was used by skunk sniffers and gas huffers not soccer moms and yoga instructors.

"Cannabis smells for blocks, like heavenly versions of the world's notorious smells, and the flavor is even better" - linolenic era

"Cannabis smells for inches, like ecig, and tastes like ecig" - terpene era.

 

[Nirrity]

man please get your math straight

...Loud Cannabis is low terpene....

1. loud cannabis is always more terpenes content for the only exception of mostly sativa terpinolene-dominant strains, as terpinolene has ~20 higher odor threshold than linalool, d-limonene or myrcene, so even 5% terpinolene dominant strain isn't as nearly as loud as 2% myrcene+limonene typical OG.

..."Cannabis smells for blocks, like heavenly versions of the world's notorious smells, and the flavor is even better" - linolenic era

"Cannabis smells for inches, like ecig, and tastes like ecig" - terpene era.

2. linalool - if its linalool you talk about by saying "linolenic era" - is terpene.
by the way there are very few strains with high enough linalool content.

 

[dc2569]

I've been pondering recently, what would happen if we started breeding not for smell, color, taste and bag appeal. What if we strictly bred for vigour resistance and stability. What direction would the terpene and nose profile take? Would they go back to bland? Hay! Or would they go back to putrid rotting sulfur skunk? Lol.

 

[MiMedicineMan]

Wow i cant believe this thread is still kicking! I havent been logged in here for years lol

Im still doing the same shit just so you know
��

 

[MiMedicineMan]

https://future4200.com/t/breeding-for-terpenes/80507?u=drake