Breeding Ethics

[OverEagerBeaver]

The only ethics that should matter are whats ethical to the plant.

In other words are your selections "breeding" improving on whats already available?

Does crossing two "elite" polyhybrids, selecting and back crossing them constitute an improvement?

Or are you just watering down genetics and creating bottlenecks while you select for certain limited "desirable" traits?

What are the longterm consequences of so many "breeders" doing this with each others "work" ?

I see an awful lot people in the "game" solely for a cash grab or ego stroke and despite all their protestations otherwise really dont seem to give two shits about our plant...

 

[symbiote420]

Well, you can say when you buy a seed it is yours, but if you reproduce the variety and sell the progeny under the same name then that is just theft, you are stealing someone else's work and profiting from the theft if you sell them. I know this is done by many but it is not correct any more then stealing someone else's art and selling copies of the art, or selling copies of ripped DVD's or CD's.
Yes you can do what ever you like, but that does not make the behavior correct...
-SamS

I didn't say anything about reproducing someone else's work ....that's totally unethical in my book!!!

I was stating more if I wanted to use a male or female to make my own cross with .....that's totally ethical and the breeder should be honored his or her work is evolving!!

 

[southflorida]

we're all more or less nice guys

but, the majority of us are ruled by ego, and because of this, from our perspective everything we do is just dandy, this includes outrageously evil shit, of course

as far as the SEED RUSH, it is really out-foking-rageous what is happening out in the Large Reality, where folks are just crossing the most hyped-up cuts and selling them beans for outrageous prices.

Without a doubt demand is what is driving all of this, and in my opinion it is seed addiction that is the real culprit.

Money does not bring happiness, but only increases the suffering one experiences, but this is usually discovered way too late.

Whatever is occuring is what should be occuring, so it is all a part of evolution.

Only time will show the end result of all this seed madness!

Many breeders have mysteriously dissappeared, and evolution has its own way of weeding out folks that are thinking ONLY about themselves!

So, good luck to everyone, and remember making love-based choices instead of fear-based choices is the path toward maturity and authentic spiritual growth!

 

[oceangrownkush]

evolution has its own way of weeding out folks that are thinking ONLY about themselves!

So, good luck to everyone, and remember making love-based choices instead of fear-based choices is the path toward maturity and authentic spiritual growth!

This right here just exposed you, hippie. That is legitimately one of the most delusional things I have ever read in my entire life.. If greed worked against survival we would be living in a very different reality!! Maybe its time for a nap?

I'm sad to see the drama towards Hammerhead, someone F2'ing his work and releasing it for profit, no matter how early in the work Hammerhead is, is unethical and in a world where Cannabis wasn't public enemy number one would also be very illegal and considered intellectual property theft. I always am wary when people bring up ego, seems to be a subject popular with know it alls and spiritual gurus, neither of whom get any of my time if I can avoid it.

To get this thread back on subject; It is highly unethical to source some gear from a breeder, open pollinate a small population and release the subsequent filial generation under the same/new name. That is a very black and white example in this game.. To give the beans away for free? Less so. But any pollination that involved little selection and small populations isn't worth a nickel, IMO.. And I'm not deluding myself as to the subject of this thread, morals are sadly quite ambiguous from person to person, opinion indeed.

 

[teemu shalanie]

the seed game is 85% posters and t shirts,
the guys who get really but hurt are the breeders who want to charge big bux $$$$$ or have proper biz-ness's that sell beans,... The worst part about the whole thing IMO is once a great pheno type of any strain is found and named , for instance ThunderCat. once all these fags hear how good it is every company has a Thundercat , or a real thundercat , etc .
you dont see wendys selling wendy whoppers, at least have the ingenewity to create a new name ,,..... fuckn ethic-less industry IMO
TS

 

[southflorida]

This right here just exposed you, hippie. That is legitimately one of the most delusional things I have ever read in my entire life.. If greed worked against survival we would be living in a very different reality!! Maybe its time for a nap?

Survival as a species is possible because of mutually beneficial interaction and cooperation, NOT greed.

Greed works against species-self-survival, and if you are NOT aware of this, maybe you should be more open to new information, instead of perceiving everything ONLY through your current beliefs and assumptions.

I'm sad to see the drama towards Hammerhead, someone F2'ing his work and releasing it for profit, no matter how early in the work Hammerhead is, is unethical and in a world where Cannabis wasn't public enemy number one would also be very illegal and considered intellectual property theft. I always am wary when people bring up ego, seems to be a subject popular with know it alls and spiritual gurus, neither of whom get any of my time if I can avoid it.

From my perspective, based on the posts that I have personally seen by HH, I can only say good things about him.

The content that I wrote about ego is focused on the human condition, and how the self-mind (ego) is running things in our culture/society.

Ego, a fear-based mechanism is behind all evil, and behind all the BS we are going through currently as the human species.

To get this thread back on subject; It is highly unethical to source some gear from a breeder, open pollinate a small population and release the subsequent filial generation under the same/new name. That is a very black and white example in this game.. To give the beans away for free? Less so. But any pollination that involved little selection and small populations isn't worth a nickel, IMO.. And I'm not deluding myself as to the subject of this thread, morals are sadly quite ambiguous from person to person, opinion indeed.

This is what many seed companies and seed producers are doing currently and SB, Sboutique, are making a profit from it.

So, at least the owner of this forum GN, does not think it is unethical.

This is simply an opinion, and it is based on interpretation.

And interpretation is based on beliefs and assumptions, NOT on fact, or truth, or anything fundamental.

 

[yortbogey]

So ... u want unethical.... well how is this....
U "thebreeder".... release a seed strain... other people buy this strain
and grow it out all on there own... no help or input from
"said breeder".... then
"they" the grower enter this finished product into HT Cup... and win... know ...how on earth is that a "WIN" for the breeder...
that did'nt grow shit... they get to claim the fame and riches just for releasing sum seeds and letting sum-one else grow the work....

to me that is UNETHICAL.....

 

[Payaso]

I see everyone here has an opinion on this and it seems to be getting rather heated in here...

Can we please step back for a moment and chill?

Thanks...

 

[teemu shalanie]

like most things in our industry their are no rules, cause its Illegal ....
TS

 

[symbiote420]

Another unethical practice I see going on these days is breeders continuing to sell a line/strain after they have lost one or both of the parents! .....even if it's a sibling of the lost parent it's still not going to produce the same strain, it maybe similar but it's not the same!

Some are smart and release fem versions to keep the line(s) going!

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

That is theft also but maybe not as bad as stealing the variety and the name?
-SamS

What about calling it something else? That gets done time and time again right?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

It is not right, yes it is done all the time.

-SamS

What about calling it something else? That gets done time and time again right?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

How many great growers are there? How many great breeders?
Lots less breeders, because it is very hard work to do it right.
Most great growers can grow most varieties with no problem, Can the same be said about most great growers being great breeders? No of course not!
-SamS

So ... u want unethical.... well how is this....
U "thebreeder".... release a seed strain... other people buy this strain
and grow it out all on there own... no help or input from
"said breeder".... then
"they" the grower enter this finished product into HT Cup... and win... know ...how on earth is that a "WIN" for the breeder...
that did'nt grow shit... they get to claim the fame and riches just for releasing sum seeds and letting sum-one else grow the work....

to me that is UNETHICAL.....

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Wow,
Do you see the ego in yourself? Who had your opinions? What is the fear that caused you to post this?

Ego's are natural, attachment to ego's is what causes pain. Lose the attachment, and no pain, no needs, no fear, no expectations. All are born with egos, that is not the root problem.
-SamS

it's hard to see ego in ourselves, mostly because it is a survival program, and it does everything possible to cover up our fears

anyone who is a loving human being has no need or use for ego, needs, wants, expectations

fear is what creates ego, and ego creates needs, wants, expectations to cover up the fears

it is a circular process, and eventually brings whatever we fear from our thinking into our physical reality

where we have to meet with our fears face-to-face

don't know why it works the way it works, but in my theory it is because this is the only way we learn and grow (evolve) as human beings

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

So I should be honored that people that use my Skunk #1 to make hybrids as my work is evolving? What if I so not want it to evolve? What if I do not like the hybrids, and feel they should have never been made? Not that I have the power to stop anyone from their actions, but even if I did it is my creation, and I should have some rights or control, I know I lost absolute control when I released it to the public, but it is my creation. People use established varieties because it is much easier then starting with unimproved materials to reach a goal. I know as I have done the breeding work.
-SamS

I didn't say anything about reproducing someone else's work ....that's totally unethical in my book!!!

I was stating more if I wanted to use a male or female to make my own cross with .....that's totally ethical and the breeder should be honored his or her work is evolving!!

 

[frito bandito]

So I should be honored that people that use my Skunk #1 to make hybrids as my work is evolving? What if I so not want it to evolve? What if I do not like the hybrids, and feel they should have never been made?

then move to another planet, keep everything to yourself, and never give it away.

Not that I have the power to stop anyone from their actions, but even if I did it is my creation, and I should have some rights or control, I know I lost absolute control when I released it to the public, but it is my creation.

partially.

People use established varieties because it is much easier then starting with unimproved materials to reach a goal. I know as I have done the breeding work.
-SamS

really? unimproved materials? so you started with cannabis plant in its natural state 10,000 years ago before the hand of man touched it, and you alone guided it to become Skunk#1?

or were there also other people involved along the way?

 

[southflorida]

Wow,
Do you see the ego in yourself? Who had your opinions? What is the fear that caused you to post this?

Hi Sam! Always a pleasure talking to a legend like yourself

Yes, I observe the ego (self-mind) running the majority of what I perceive. I'm 42 currently, and the topic of the human condition has interested me since I was 14. I have observed how the ego operates in me for many years and how the intellect supports the ego in creating fantasies and delusions to cover up my fears.

From my perspective that post was not fear-based in any way. I was simply writing my theory based on my personal experiences over the years. Contemplating my thoughts, actions, and the results from these, I have noticed fear-based actions as a rule lead to the fear appearing in physical reality, while love-based actions help to create and build on past successes.

I guess the best way to put it is this: fear-based actions lead to oscillation, while love-based actions lead to advancement.

Ego's are natural, attachment to ego's is what causes pain. Lose the attachment, and no pain, no needs, no fear, no expectations. All are born with egos, that is not the root problem.
-SamS

It is true that ego's are a natural consequence of living in a culture/society where one has to create a "particular" self, and that it is the attachment and not the ego that produces pain, needs, expectations.

But, it is the fear that brings the ego into one's consciousness and awareness. We are NOT born with ego's. We are born with a self-mind that is a survival mechanism.

What actually happens is that we "confuse" this survival mechanism with who we are. We start to believe that we are the self-mind.

Fear, ignorance, and confusion are the root of the problem.

These bring the ego into the picture as a protector of the self, and then the human's awareness attaches to a snowball of concepts (beliefs, assumptions, opinions, convictions, memories, future projections, etc) that are necessary to hide the fear through fantasies and delusions.

Fundamentally, I believe this is part of human evolution, and everything is occuring exactly as it should be occuring.

I don't see anything wrong or right about the ego (false-self).

It is what it is. Simply another distinct element of the Greater Consciousness.

Each human being (individuated consciousness) evolves slowly by making choices. The thing that is evolving is the intent (motivation) behind the choices.

This (intent) motivation is what can be observed if one wants to know if his intent is fear-based or love-based!

 

[sprinkl]

then move to another planet, keep everything to yourself, and never give it away.



partially.



really? unimproved materials? so you started with cannabis plant in its natural state 10,000 years ago before the hand of man touched it, and you alone guided it to become Skunk#1?

or were there also other people involved along the way?

I kind of agree with ^^.
You can not claim part of nature is yours because you worked it. The work you did on it is yours, nothing more. You didn't create those plants, everyone should be able to use them to their likening. Though I agree it's wrong to copy that work or profit from it without putting effort in it. Did the Afghan, mexican, colombian people that were growing those plants decades before you got a part of the share? Did the people that imported the sativa's out of which haze was created? The people in those poor-ass countries where those sativa's came from? There's probably more pure profit being made from haze seeds yearly than from the total yearly vegetable production in such a poor-ass country where those sativa's emerged.
Breeding is not creating art, nature is art, you shaped it more to your likening. The price of art is bullshit anyway, it doesn't cost a given price because of the work or effort put in it, it does so because a few people in the know say an artist is supposedly the shit and then everyone wants a piece of it, driving prices ridiculously high.
Breeders should be well rewarded for a job well done, that's it.
I'm sure for every honest breeder out there there are 100's of breeders people will never even hear of that put as much work in and never ment to reap any profit in the first place, just out of love for the plant or for patients. I'm pretty sure clones and seeds from such real hero's are used by pretty much all "real breeders" and are giving them a lot of $$.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that when or if it becomes legal, the only fair way to approach this is for every seed to cost a standard set price(somehow influenced by how much the plants can yield though), and when the seeds get thoroughly tested, the good breeders that fulfil their promises would sell a lot more of the seed then the bad ones. And then people that just hybridize elite cuts would still earn way too much easy money, but that's just how the world goes round. Dumb people profiting of dumber people. And if there is a justice or karma or god then those people will get what they deserve. And if there's not, well... They'll just have a rotten soul.

 

[sso]

hmm, i dont remember seeing a total asshole here ever.

and, its rare i see someone that isnt an asshole, occasionally.


and thats probably because i just dont know them well enough.


i personally have bouts of asshole. spray shit everywhere.

it happens.

 

[Tipz]

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agreed