whythefnot
Member
I personally can't wait to benefit from your hard work and trial and error, Bobble. Thanks for sharing openly. 
bobblehead's organic bedroom of high brix gardening
- Thread starter bobblehead
- Start date
Those are chunky, but I don't see um damn near covering a 1 gallon milk jug
BTW i'll pm ya when I have some time to sit down and articulate my thoughts better. I will say, my strange attraction to that particular plant seems to have been well placed
And just to be clear, I support organic farming 210% (My main garden is organic, as well as my food). However I've only met two growers my whole life that could make water only organics produce on par with a well dialed chem garden, and neither one of them was willing to share their secrets.
Meh - My quest doesn't so much insist on water-only, .. Ain't no thang to mix up some tea or top dress or whatever. But, IME, I find this method to be plain old simpler'n having to mix and measure and meter and all. For that, and a good number of other reasons, it's how I choose to roll.
And of course, ..
..that.
Look if you keep stroking his ego.... he's actully going to believe he can grow decent weed!!!
Thanks Mega. Here's the pics of my beds.
Materials:
1 4' x 8' 1/2" OSB sheet
3 2" x 12" x 8' boards
7 2" x 4" x 8' boards
Several 3" screws
4 heavy duty casters
1-2 bulkheads
Here's the bottom of the bed
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Here's an up close of a caster. I wouldn't use such a small piece of wood to secure the caster. It ends up splitting and breaking.
View Image
I would use a longer piece like I did on this bed... Or anything stronger than a scrap piece of wood you have laying around that looks like it might just barely fit.
View Image
Here's some screws holding the bed together.
View Image
IDK what more there is to say... I mean you cut some boards in half, screw everything together, cut a hole for the bulkhead, line the bed with pond liner, cut a hole for the bulkhead, insert the bulkhead, cover the bulkhead with landscape fabric or window screen, fill the bed with growing medium. I like peat. Some people still insist coco is better...You can use rocks. Anything goes.
Thanks brother
Those are chunky, but I don't see um damn near covering a 1 gallon milk jug
BTW i'll pm ya when I have some time to sit down and articulate my thoughts better. I will say, my strange attraction to that particular plant seems to have been well placed
And just to be clear, I support organic farming 210% (My main garden is organic, as well as my food). However I've only met two growers my whole life that could make water only organics produce on par with a well dialed chem garden, and neither one of them was willing to share their secrets. Ultimately I feel both organic and chemical methods have their place. Realistically the choice is more about personal preference, and situation than anything else. At least in my opinion.
Soil requires a home and property - not everyone has the space for it. Wish I could go no till water only - talk a bout CHEAP! lol Agree'd!
You must don't get out much, _D. These plants had 3+ weeks left on 'em at time of their mugshot.
View Image
(Maybe I'm part of the exception this time?)
is that a florescent in a sprite bottle!!!???? I was going to buy a green bulb - is that just as good?
To be clear, Veg imparted very little knowledge on me, but what was shared was excellent information. Veg showed me what's possible with organic beds with pictures to back up the claims. He gave me a general outline of what he does, but omitted a lot of details for me to figure out on my own. What I know is due to my own research, guided by reading veg's posts. I read many of the same published articles, Teaming with Microbes, etc... To get to this level of understanding organic farming. I still intend to buy the entire collection of Albrecht papers and I'm going to borrow Teaming with Nutrients from Silver one of these days. Not to mention all the time I've already put in the class and grow rooms.
No discredit to Veg, but I deserve the credit, good or bad. Veg deleted his account again anyway after Gypsy went down... I'm sure he's lurking and will pop in eventually... But we haven't been in touch for some time now. He told me that when he teaches people his methods, he makes them swear not to tell anyone. So pretty much if Veg taught me this stuff, I wouldn't be sharing this thread. I like to think I can get by on my own. Help is always appreciated though.
For example going no-till had nothing to do with Veg. I did my own research and found that it was a superior method of organic farming. It will take several growing seasons/grows to establish humus and really make the beds perform. They're supposed to just keep getting better with age. Throwing the worms in there, also my idea. Worms make tunnels that help with the even distribution of water, adds to aeration, and they eat the bacteria that are feeding off the dead leaves and amendments and make the nutrients they consumed plant available, while spreading the nutrients throughout the soil. Seeing how all my amendments are top-dressed I'd say that's a good thing!
I don't follow self proclaimed gurus anymore. I'm my own self proclaimed guru.
Was just poking fun
. I expect nothing less than all consuming research from you bro. Actually I'm very interested to see where this journey takes you. Water only organics is ultimately the direction I'd like to head with my garden in the long term. However for my current situation and goals, it just makes more sense to use chems and bottled organics. Besides, I have enough other experiments lined up to keep me busy for awhile, and you know how much I love stealing your ideas Veg showed one of the best 10 x 10 rooms I've ever seen in my life - those OG beds were simply ridiculous. Most of what he says is a secret he would discuss in great detail while visiting chat - but honestly, much of what he says today, is exactly what I was telling him back in 2009. The worst part then, was he used to crucify me for saying such and treated me like a complete idiot...but as time progressed, years later, he began talking the same talk. Personally, I'm just glad that more people are switching over and by end result the quality of domestic cannabis is going to go through the roof.
I'm also 100% sure if he read this post, he'd deny having ever done it differently than he does now....hahahaha!
But when a grower of his...size...talks...people tend to listen vs some hill jack hobbyist like myself. I tried getting folks on the full organic, just add water, no-till potential for many years...gave away thousands of dollars worth of fertilizer blends that I bet 95% of people still have just sitting in a closet some where, never used - complete and total waste of my time and resources is all it amounted to...
I'm really looking forward to seeing what you are capable of this system Bobble. I've always loved your willingness to pursue so many various methods and to experiment and learn for yourself, first hand. That is the origin of true knowledge...doing.
dank.Frank
Well said frank
. I was one of the people hoping to acquire some of your mix after seeing marlo's results. Sad to hear it never materialized for you. If you ever get it up and running, let me know. I'll be first in line to grab a bag.
Not until his shit looks like my Sour Strawberry Kush
Though...... it would probably be better if it wasn't grown in that awful coco. Really effects the quality don't cha know
Meh - My quest doesn't so much insist on water-only, .. Ain't no thang to mix up some tea or top dress or whatever. But, IME, I find this method to be plain old simpler'n having to mix and measure and meter and all. For that, and a good number of other reasons, it's how I choose to roll.
And of course, ..
..that.
Like I tell every grower, you have to find what works best for YOU!
An old High Times trick I learned decades ago. For my nighttime flashlight, I've just taped the green plastic from a soda bottle over the lens of the flashlight (abt 4-5 layers of the plastic).
You are correct in that it's a sprite bottle around the bulb in the trouble light, but it's actually a sprite bottle around a green bulb.
I had extra bottle left over after making the flashlight, and I figured I'd rather err on the side of greeniness for my interrupter-light..
SRGB
Member
bobblehead:
I like peat. Some people still insist coco is better... You can use rocks. Anything goes.
Mister_D:
Ahem, with pictures to prove it mind you . Can't remember ever seeing a plant like this come out of your organic beds...... Or almost anybody else's for that matter.
But I do seem to recall these being grown in that terrible coco media
bobblehead:
And just to be clear, I support organic farming 210% (My main garden is organic, as well as my food). However I've only met two growers my whole life that could make water only organics produce on par with a well dialed chem garden, and neither one of them was willing to share their secrets. Ultimately I feel both organic and chemical methods have their place. Realistically the choice is more about personal preference, and situation than anything else. At least in my opinion.
dank.frank:
ut when a grower of his...size...talks...people tend to listen vs some hill jack hobbyist like myself. I tried getting folks on the full organic, just add water, no-till potential for many years...
Interesting discussion.
Rocks work, coco coir works, soil works, moist air (aeroponics) works, water only (both as DWC and as a soil drench) works.
The main point of either of the options available to gardeners is management of those implementations. We have tried each experimenting with SRBGB`s. They have their own criteria for success. To an appreciable degree, they are all similar in this respect: The most critical management task would be accurately estimating (or, ideally measuring) the ratio between available (or, more precisely, retained) water (or, moisture) in the media and oxygen in the media. That balance might influence the separation of aerobic or anaerobic root zone conditions. The second most critical management task would be, perhaps, pH management.
A gardener can presumably stay in a given range in either of those media and the results should be roughly similar - after having tried such approaches for several occasions.
As was mentioned, preferences then might influence selection of media. Coco coir is an organic substrate, so there should not be any distinction whatsoever between `soil`, or `organic media` and coco coir.
We would prefer different rocks, as they are generally more fundamentally inert (less prone to be reactive with nutrients - either `organic` or `synthetic`) than the prior options.
And, of course, a gardener could make a simple mister that could feed only roots and have no substantial medium
to manage at all - save for the surrounding air in close proximity to the root zone.
With rocks, roughly 99% of the substrate might be immediately re-usable, without any need for re-conditioning or rinsing, etc. With coco coir, certain elements or compunds tend to accumulate and remain in the substrate; to what extent might depend on the type of coco coir. With soil there might be any number of biological variables that could be adjusted.
If we were to be presented with a requirement for a purely `organic` approach with SRBGB`s, for whatever reasons, we would still perhaps suggest inert rocks. For non-bottled, non-packaged plant nutrition, we would probably try blackstrap molasses. It is possible to derive the NPK-S-MG of blackstrap molasses, or any other foodstuff with a `Nutrition Facts` label. The process involves some conversions, but derives fairly accurate and verfifiable numbers relating to the contents of the products. If a bottled, or packaged nutrient solution was within the bounds of the experiment, perhaps flora-licious plus could be implemented as a single solution input.
Beyond that, there really are no ideals other than those of the gardener. The specimen simply want to survive, and might tend to do so under a myraid of conditions. There might be sports that appear in any setting (or media), as that is the fundamental nature of life (diversity). It might be a difficult proposition to offer a proof of concept relating to a particular substrate compared to another substrate, or, further, a set of substrates compared over a season or seasons.
What would be the criteria for success? Re-usability? Preference that the substrate contain `organic life`? Without a practical basis of comparison, applications could only be compared to another gardening philosophy, as opposed to empirical results.
We would merely point out that one could rather easily build an aeroponic system with no medium, or even a top-fed system with little medium, and use `organic` teas, nutrients, etc. That would still be `organic`, without a large population of organisms living in a `soil`. Would that then make the compasion between coco coir and soil limited by its scope and inclusion of all possible variations of `organic` gardening?
Substrate provides anchorage and initial support. It can provide nutrition, but that might not be its essential function in that particular setting. For example, at a remote laboratory, for example, Antarctica, bags of soil might not be preferred simply for space restrictions. Or, in space itself (space stations), the sheer bulk requirement of soil might present limitations on its usage. But what if the requirement ws still to raise an `organic` garden in space? Possible solutions would perhaps include the least amount of media required to anchor a plant or tree, and the most concentrated form(s) of `organic` nutrition.
After experimenting with SWC, DWC, coco coir, soil, soilless mixes, and other synthetic substrates, we found pumice to be the most durable, least influential on the nutrient profile, and most physically capable to provide channels of oxygen to the root zone - without accumulating excessinve water in pockets or specific parts of the root zone: especially underneath the core root mass, where anaerobic conditions and initial rot might tend to initially occur when over-saturated.
In any event, gardening can be accomplished in any fashion the gardener desires, whatever their pre-disposed requirements are, or with concepts that might evolve spontaneously.
Comparing one preference to another can be done. Practical results can be accumulated and measured. The scientific method provides such a framework to prove or disprove a fair number of concepts.
The main and fundamental question might be: What is the gardener trying to accomplish by selecting a specific substrate over another substrate? Is that selection measurable verrsus the other possible selections as to its practical implementation?
Another way to present the above is perhaps, if inert rocks with synthetic nutrition were weighted the same as organic soil with biological activity providing nutrition, and the exact or substantially similar results were reached, would the conclusions be based more on an ideal preference for use of a given method or to the empirical results of the respective comparison? Should `organic` applications be weighted greater than `synthetic`, `chemical` or other applications, results being substantially the same?
One could perhaps present facts that compare organic and inorganic packaging alone as a variable of inputs. How much of X (inputs) are required to produce Y (outputs). If measuring inputs alone, perhaps a single bottle of flora-nova, or maxi-series, or generic dry 5-15-26 [sic] might be less total required packaging and processing to return a viable nutrient profile than an array of organic materials. The raw energy required to accumulate and prepare various organic inputs might be comparable to the single synthetic input, resulting in a zero sum gain with regards to the actual energy needed to manufacture, package and ship a given product.
By the way, what is `organic`? What is `inorganic`?
Just sharing different perspectives on the topics. We are still not certain about what exactly the comparison is between mediums and nutrient inputs. Without a basis for comparision, and weighting of variables (inputs and outputs) they basically could be described as reaching the same or similar result. Or, simple fun and in jest, which might both be positive. Nice work all.
Best,
/SRGB/
I like peat. Some people still insist coco is better... You can use rocks. Anything goes.
Mister_D:
Ahem, with pictures to prove it mind you . Can't remember ever seeing a plant like this come out of your organic beds...... Or almost anybody else's for that matter.
But I do seem to recall these being grown in that terrible coco media
bobblehead:
And just to be clear, I support organic farming 210% (My main garden is organic, as well as my food). However I've only met two growers my whole life that could make water only organics produce on par with a well dialed chem garden, and neither one of them was willing to share their secrets. Ultimately I feel both organic and chemical methods have their place. Realistically the choice is more about personal preference, and situation than anything else. At least in my opinion.
dank.frank:
ut when a grower of his...size...talks...people tend to listen vs some hill jack hobbyist like myself. I tried getting folks on the full organic, just add water, no-till potential for many years...
Interesting discussion.
Rocks work, coco coir works, soil works, moist air (aeroponics) works, water only (both as DWC and as a soil drench) works.
The main point of either of the options available to gardeners is management of those implementations. We have tried each experimenting with SRBGB`s. They have their own criteria for success. To an appreciable degree, they are all similar in this respect: The most critical management task would be accurately estimating (or, ideally measuring) the ratio between available (or, more precisely, retained) water (or, moisture) in the media and oxygen in the media. That balance might influence the separation of aerobic or anaerobic root zone conditions. The second most critical management task would be, perhaps, pH management.
A gardener can presumably stay in a given range in either of those media and the results should be roughly similar - after having tried such approaches for several occasions.
As was mentioned, preferences then might influence selection of media. Coco coir is an organic substrate, so there should not be any distinction whatsoever between `soil`, or `organic media` and coco coir.
We would prefer different rocks, as they are generally more fundamentally inert (less prone to be reactive with nutrients - either `organic` or `synthetic`) than the prior options.
And, of course, a gardener could make a simple mister that could feed only roots and have no substantial medium
to manage at all - save for the surrounding air in close proximity to the root zone.
With rocks, roughly 99% of the substrate might be immediately re-usable, without any need for re-conditioning or rinsing, etc. With coco coir, certain elements or compunds tend to accumulate and remain in the substrate; to what extent might depend on the type of coco coir. With soil there might be any number of biological variables that could be adjusted.
If we were to be presented with a requirement for a purely `organic` approach with SRBGB`s, for whatever reasons, we would still perhaps suggest inert rocks. For non-bottled, non-packaged plant nutrition, we would probably try blackstrap molasses. It is possible to derive the NPK-S-MG of blackstrap molasses, or any other foodstuff with a `Nutrition Facts` label. The process involves some conversions, but derives fairly accurate and verfifiable numbers relating to the contents of the products. If a bottled, or packaged nutrient solution was within the bounds of the experiment, perhaps flora-licious plus could be implemented as a single solution input.
Beyond that, there really are no ideals other than those of the gardener. The specimen simply want to survive, and might tend to do so under a myraid of conditions. There might be sports that appear in any setting (or media), as that is the fundamental nature of life (diversity). It might be a difficult proposition to offer a proof of concept relating to a particular substrate compared to another substrate, or, further, a set of substrates compared over a season or seasons.
What would be the criteria for success? Re-usability? Preference that the substrate contain `organic life`? Without a practical basis of comparison, applications could only be compared to another gardening philosophy, as opposed to empirical results.
We would merely point out that one could rather easily build an aeroponic system with no medium, or even a top-fed system with little medium, and use `organic` teas, nutrients, etc. That would still be `organic`, without a large population of organisms living in a `soil`. Would that then make the compasion between coco coir and soil limited by its scope and inclusion of all possible variations of `organic` gardening?
Substrate provides anchorage and initial support. It can provide nutrition, but that might not be its essential function in that particular setting. For example, at a remote laboratory, for example, Antarctica, bags of soil might not be preferred simply for space restrictions. Or, in space itself (space stations), the sheer bulk requirement of soil might present limitations on its usage. But what if the requirement ws still to raise an `organic` garden in space? Possible solutions would perhaps include the least amount of media required to anchor a plant or tree, and the most concentrated form(s) of `organic` nutrition.
After experimenting with SWC, DWC, coco coir, soil, soilless mixes, and other synthetic substrates, we found pumice to be the most durable, least influential on the nutrient profile, and most physically capable to provide channels of oxygen to the root zone - without accumulating excessinve water in pockets or specific parts of the root zone: especially underneath the core root mass, where anaerobic conditions and initial rot might tend to initially occur when over-saturated.
In any event, gardening can be accomplished in any fashion the gardener desires, whatever their pre-disposed requirements are, or with concepts that might evolve spontaneously.
Comparing one preference to another can be done. Practical results can be accumulated and measured. The scientific method provides such a framework to prove or disprove a fair number of concepts.
The main and fundamental question might be: What is the gardener trying to accomplish by selecting a specific substrate over another substrate? Is that selection measurable verrsus the other possible selections as to its practical implementation?
Another way to present the above is perhaps, if inert rocks with synthetic nutrition were weighted the same as organic soil with biological activity providing nutrition, and the exact or substantially similar results were reached, would the conclusions be based more on an ideal preference for use of a given method or to the empirical results of the respective comparison? Should `organic` applications be weighted greater than `synthetic`, `chemical` or other applications, results being substantially the same?
One could perhaps present facts that compare organic and inorganic packaging alone as a variable of inputs. How much of X (inputs) are required to produce Y (outputs). If measuring inputs alone, perhaps a single bottle of flora-nova, or maxi-series, or generic dry 5-15-26 [sic] might be less total required packaging and processing to return a viable nutrient profile than an array of organic materials. The raw energy required to accumulate and prepare various organic inputs might be comparable to the single synthetic input, resulting in a zero sum gain with regards to the actual energy needed to manufacture, package and ship a given product.
By the way, what is `organic`? What is `inorganic`?
Just sharing different perspectives on the topics. We are still not certain about what exactly the comparison is between mediums and nutrient inputs. Without a basis for comparision, and weighting of variables (inputs and outputs) they basically could be described as reaching the same or similar result. Or, simple fun and in jest, which might both be positive. Nice work all.
Best,
/SRGB/
Shit - that means I better get off my ass and do some reading
I don't follow self proclaimed gurus anymore. I'm my own self proclaimed guru.
I think that's fairly evident to anyone who's been keeping up..
Hey D remember that chat where I said I did have my coco dialed...
I just prefer peat now... That's all.
Silver... It took me 1 day to read Teaming With Microbes... lol... I've been waiting for the companion book for a minute now.
I just prefer peat now... That's all.
Silver... It took me 1 day to read Teaming With Microbes... lol... I've been waiting for the companion book for a minute now.
Interesting. Peat and Perilite is a professionals medium.
But since Peat is made from Sphagnum Moss - It is on the decline in popularity - use and availability. We have pretty much farmed up most of the Peat we can and in doing so have been harming mother earth.
Its a shame such a great medium will soon cease to exist - but I would like to pose a question for you pros to consider.
Why not combine the two? Coco Coir and Peat? Or are they arch enemies to thee end and contradict one another? Of course with perilite added to the mix - and if it were me - growstones also.
Happy Gardening brothers curious to learn!
But since Peat is made from Sphagnum Moss - It is on the decline in popularity - use and availability. We have pretty much farmed up most of the Peat we can and in doing so have been harming mother earth.
Its a shame such a great medium will soon cease to exist - but I would like to pose a question for you pros to consider.
Why not combine the two? Coco Coir and Peat? Or are they arch enemies to thee end and contradict one another? Of course with perilite added to the mix - and if it were me - growstones also.
Happy Gardening brothers
curious to learn!
The trouble with coco is its high CEC. You have to charge the coco before it will make nutrients available to the plant. That's fine and dandy with synthetic nutes... But with organics which are slower to release, and I'm not talking bottled stuff either, its difficult to make the nutrients plant available and charge the medium. Soil tests could be used to balance the CEC, but its a lot more difficult than using peat. I used 12 bales of peat to fill my beds... And I won't have to fill them again in my growing career.
Are we about to run out of peat bogs? Cause my grow shop has lots of promix in stock... I understand its not the most eco-friendly, but I don't see a shortage.
Are we about to run out of peat bogs? Cause my grow shop has lots of promix in stock... I understand its not the most eco-friendly, but I don't see a shortage.
Hey D remember that chat where I said I did have my coco dialed...
View Image
I just prefer peat now... That's all.
Silver... It took me 1 day to read Teaming With Microbes... lol... I've been waiting for the companion book for a minute now.
I'll say that looks a whole lot better than previous runs, but it an't dialed bro. I see evidence of imbalances during your flush. When everything is dialed you come out with fall colors at the end (purple, pink, red, etc). Should be none of the typical signs of deficiency. Not the best example, but it will give you an idea of what I mean.
Notice how the green just fades into purple? Almost no yellow or rust coloration, because she has just enough what she needed to finish. The burnt leaf in the background is from getting too close the bulb.
Very good info sir. Makes a lot of sense.
Unfortunately we have stripped off so much Sphagnum that it is running out. And it does not regenerate itself - so the Midwest will soon be in a pickle. Probably within the decade. Depends on multiple factors timing wise - but the price will probably increase over time.
Very well said Bobble - may I inquire on your opinion regarding Using Beneficial Microbes like say Great White Innoculent - with Synthetic nutes in Coco? Not sure if its needed - necessary - will make things better - or just over kill... Zero root/ plant problems - just trying to dial in the medium and see if thats another step to take to achieving success (1GPW)
Nice plant silver - but I'd like to disagree. Not all plants get the fall colors - Some times too much Nitrogen - or hte cold will help - but its mostly genetics.
to get any pretty colors on Green Crack - you gotta run her 8 weeks and drop the night temps by a whole 10 degrees at the least.
You are both great growers - who cares
SRGB
Member
LyryC:
Interesting. Peat and Perilite is a professionals medium.
But since Peat is made from Sphagnum Moss - It is on the decline in popularity - use and availability. We have pretty much farmed up most of the Peat we can and in doing so have been harming mother earth.
Its a shame such a great medium will soon cease to exist - but I would like to pose a question for you pros to consider.
Why not combine the two? Coco Coir and Peat? Or are they arch enemies to thee end and contradict one another? Of course with perilite added to the mix - and if it were me - growstones also.
Happy Gardening brothers curious to learn!
bobblehead:
The trouble with coco is its high CEC. You have to charge the coco before it will make nutrients available to the plant. That's fine and dandy with synthetic nutes... But with organics which are slower to release, and I'm not talking bottled stuff either, its difficult to make the nutrients plant available and charge the medium. Soil tests could be used to balance the CEC, but its a lot more difficult than using peat. I used 12 bales of peat to fill my beds... And I won't have to fill them again in my growing career.
Are we about to run out of peat bogs? Cause my grow shop has lots of promix in stock... I understand its not the most eco-friendly, but I don't see a shortage.
Hi, LyryC. Hi, bobblehead.
Interesting data on peat. Thanks for sharing.
We have experimented with peat and coco coir in SRBGB`s. Peat tended to retain moisture for an extended period, without an effective means to `dry` it out, especially underneath the primary root mass in the center of the medium. We would periodically let a given unit `dry` out on the surface and then dig out the root mass and examine the media`s saturation level to review its properties under those conditions. Invariably, there would be pockets, or more appropriately, a pocket of saturated moisture in the center of the media mass. We experienced a similar phenomenon with coco coir. Both conditions could be managed by aerating the base medium with aerating amendments and simply watering less. Even then, it might still be challenging to maintain a balanced dispersal of that moisture within the medium. The top (surface) might tend to dry out much faster than the center of the media. Without extracting samples of the media from the approximate center of the substrate, it might be diffucult to accurately measure the `wetness` of the media.
We have experimented with an `organic` water only regime with coco coir. It can be done, with proper consideration for the inherent calcium, potassium and other compounds held within the coir. Any number of amendments could be mixed into the media. We included various foodstuffs and, or, controlled release fertilizers. The more inputs, the more variables to manage. Ultimately, we found that mycorrhizae and molasses were adequate sources of biological activity and raw organic nutrients to sustain health of the the specimen.
There are various forms of mycorrhizae that could be employed, from powders to liquids. We found the simplest were solid tabs that could be crumbled into a powder-like form and dispersed throughout the coir. The tabs might also contain a slow release fertilizer (we do not currently have the exact NPK`s to post), which as a standalone could also sustain a specimen for an entire season. That would limit the inputs to 1.
We tried various forms of molasses, both liquid and dry. Either might work well. With dry molasses, the gardener could disperse it and the mycorrhizae into the coco coir, or other medium prior to sowing the specimen, then simply apply water only for the duration of the season. With liquid molasses, roughly a teaspoon per gallon of water - or less - could sustain a given specimen, in general, throughout and entire season. That would be only 2 total inputs.
There are also methods to calculate the approximate NPK-Mg-S of molasses, based on the `Nutrition Facts` label, if the gardener wanted to chart approximately how much each element would be contained in a soultion of water.
Even if the regime requirement was 100% organic, for sustainability and re-usability, we would still probably prefer pumice in various grades to peat or coco coir. We found inert rocks (see #165) simpler to re-use, manage the pH, even saturation (moisture) dispersal, et. al, than coco coir or peat or soil.
There are perhaps some gardeners that have found methods of re-using coco coir, peat or soil immediately or continuously, managing the aerobic-to-anaerobic balance within the substrate. It would appear to be certainly achievable. Such a task might require a broader conception of the garden than only the plants or trees, which may be a very fundamental, or, universal gardening principle.
We would only post that there might be many possible options, each of which may be viable for that gardener. Pre-amending coco coir, peat or soil and supplying only water might be possible; implementing remediation of and recycling the process might be an entire task unto itself, irrepsective of the seasons` progress or state. Organic gardening with inert rocks might also be possible.
With our experiments using SRBGB`s, we tried a fair amount of novel or hybrid approaches, and during the process developed a rough sketch of the drain to no waste method, which we found to be implementable with nearly any medium.
There may be any number of possible inputs, but the fewer the simpler it might be for the gardener to accurately measure the state of any input at any point on the flow chart. The more inputs, the more possible combinations of outputs, or expressions of conditions to calculate, measure or simply consider.
--
bobblehead:
Hey D remember that chat where I said I did have my coco dialed...
Mister_D:
Not the best example, but it will give you an idea of what I mean.
Hi, Mister_D. Hi, bobblehead.
Will not the same:same thread perhaps draw more defined comparisons on the canvases using the same brushes, with the gardeners` own selection of input colors?
It might be difficult to distinguish between expressions when they may appear to be different items, having their own distinct qualities or characteristics, at different points of progression relative to each other on a linear time graph.
Kind regards,
/SRGB/
Interesting. Peat and Perilite is a professionals medium.
But since Peat is made from Sphagnum Moss - It is on the decline in popularity - use and availability. We have pretty much farmed up most of the Peat we can and in doing so have been harming mother earth.
Its a shame such a great medium will soon cease to exist - but I would like to pose a question for you pros to consider.
Why not combine the two? Coco Coir and Peat? Or are they arch enemies to thee end and contradict one another? Of course with perilite added to the mix - and if it were me - growstones also.
Happy Gardening brothers curious to learn!
bobblehead:
The trouble with coco is its high CEC. You have to charge the coco before it will make nutrients available to the plant. That's fine and dandy with synthetic nutes... But with organics which are slower to release, and I'm not talking bottled stuff either, its difficult to make the nutrients plant available and charge the medium. Soil tests could be used to balance the CEC, but its a lot more difficult than using peat. I used 12 bales of peat to fill my beds... And I won't have to fill them again in my growing career.
Are we about to run out of peat bogs? Cause my grow shop has lots of promix in stock... I understand its not the most eco-friendly, but I don't see a shortage.
Hi, LyryC. Hi, bobblehead.
Interesting data on peat. Thanks for sharing.
We have experimented with peat and coco coir in SRBGB`s. Peat tended to retain moisture for an extended period, without an effective means to `dry` it out, especially underneath the primary root mass in the center of the medium. We would periodically let a given unit `dry` out on the surface and then dig out the root mass and examine the media`s saturation level to review its properties under those conditions. Invariably, there would be pockets, or more appropriately, a pocket of saturated moisture in the center of the media mass. We experienced a similar phenomenon with coco coir. Both conditions could be managed by aerating the base medium with aerating amendments and simply watering less. Even then, it might still be challenging to maintain a balanced dispersal of that moisture within the medium. The top (surface) might tend to dry out much faster than the center of the media. Without extracting samples of the media from the approximate center of the substrate, it might be diffucult to accurately measure the `wetness` of the media.
We have experimented with an `organic` water only regime with coco coir. It can be done, with proper consideration for the inherent calcium, potassium and other compounds held within the coir. Any number of amendments could be mixed into the media. We included various foodstuffs and, or, controlled release fertilizers. The more inputs, the more variables to manage. Ultimately, we found that mycorrhizae and molasses were adequate sources of biological activity and raw organic nutrients to sustain health of the the specimen.
There are various forms of mycorrhizae that could be employed, from powders to liquids. We found the simplest were solid tabs that could be crumbled into a powder-like form and dispersed throughout the coir. The tabs might also contain a slow release fertilizer (we do not currently have the exact NPK`s to post), which as a standalone could also sustain a specimen for an entire season. That would limit the inputs to 1.
We tried various forms of molasses, both liquid and dry. Either might work well. With dry molasses, the gardener could disperse it and the mycorrhizae into the coco coir, or other medium prior to sowing the specimen, then simply apply water only for the duration of the season. With liquid molasses, roughly a teaspoon per gallon of water - or less - could sustain a given specimen, in general, throughout and entire season. That would be only 2 total inputs.
There are also methods to calculate the approximate NPK-Mg-S of molasses, based on the `Nutrition Facts` label, if the gardener wanted to chart approximately how much each element would be contained in a soultion of water.
Even if the regime requirement was 100% organic, for sustainability and re-usability, we would still probably prefer pumice in various grades to peat or coco coir. We found inert rocks (see #165) simpler to re-use, manage the pH, even saturation (moisture) dispersal, et. al, than coco coir or peat or soil.
There are perhaps some gardeners that have found methods of re-using coco coir, peat or soil immediately or continuously, managing the aerobic-to-anaerobic balance within the substrate. It would appear to be certainly achievable. Such a task might require a broader conception of the garden than only the plants or trees, which may be a very fundamental, or, universal gardening principle.
We would only post that there might be many possible options, each of which may be viable for that gardener. Pre-amending coco coir, peat or soil and supplying only water might be possible; implementing remediation of and recycling the process might be an entire task unto itself, irrepsective of the seasons` progress or state. Organic gardening with inert rocks might also be possible.
With our experiments using SRBGB`s, we tried a fair amount of novel or hybrid approaches, and during the process developed a rough sketch of the drain to no waste method, which we found to be implementable with nearly any medium.
There may be any number of possible inputs, but the fewer the simpler it might be for the gardener to accurately measure the state of any input at any point on the flow chart. The more inputs, the more possible combinations of outputs, or expressions of conditions to calculate, measure or simply consider.
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bobblehead:
Hey D remember that chat where I said I did have my coco dialed...
Mister_D:
Not the best example, but it will give you an idea of what I mean.
Hi, Mister_D. Hi, bobblehead.
Will not the same:same thread perhaps draw more defined comparisons on the canvases using the same brushes, with the gardeners` own selection of input colors?
It might be difficult to distinguish between expressions when they may appear to be different items, having their own distinct qualities or characteristics, at different points of progression relative to each other on a linear time graph.
Kind regards,
/SRGB/
Nice plant silver - but I'd like to disagree. Not all plants get the fall colors - Some times too much Nitrogen - or hte cold will help - but its mostly genetics.
to get any pretty colors on Green Crack - you gotta run her 8 weeks and drop the night temps by a whole 10 degrees at the least.
You are both great growers - who cares
Guessing you were talking to me here. Any plant can and will show variations of these colors once feed has been dialed. 99% of people don't spend the time to dial things in on this level. Sometimes you get lucky and your normal nute schedule is close enough to ideal. That is likely why it seems some plants show these colors, while others don't. All of the growers I know that have their strains dialed produce falls colors by harvest. Combined that's in excess of 100 strains. There are exceptions to every rule of course, but generally speaking correctly fed plants will look like a leafy tree during fall. All about dialage my man
To be clear, it's not an argument between me and bobble. More of a friendly debate
. Being great growers is nice, but we're trying to play on heath's level .
About what are we disagreeing? I only posted that picture to defend thine own organic honor, when _D was busting balls about big fat stalks being more likely to come out of a coco grow. (I'm of course paraphrasing here, but I think the spirit is there?) The photo was to illustrate donkster capability in an organic garden, but nothing about sexytime finishing.
Though it's funny that we're now talking about colors & ripening, with the Nightmare as the subject.
She is definitely NOT a sexy finisher. The DGSC #3 next to her in that picture has some ripening sex appeal, but the ND just gets ragged lookin'. Just how I like it!You are both great growers - who cares
I'm not sure if "both" is bobble and _D, or if I'm one of the other parts of "both," but I'll pretend that I am and say thank you kind sir.
