BHO question, is wax/budder unpurged BHO?

[pineolene]

I am curious pineolene, have you ever smoked 100$ pure THC?
-SamS

Thanks for the correction, you know what I'm trying to say. THC% means nothing (essentially) and has no bearing on the high strength or type from my experiences. Like I said earlier, a favorite Larry OG pheno is testing 9%.

 

[Dr. Purple]

So I got some stuff from a dispensary in Colorado called peanut butter. Its supposedly a strong concentrate similar to ear wax. Anybody know anything to help me out? Can I use my skillet to indulge or should I try something different?

 

[jump117]

also oil made with IPA will budder very well, so its not only butane oil that can budder or be buddered.

Hey Hashmasta-Kut,
To my shame, I missed this message when it was published,
I was on holiday abroad, away from my computer.
I hope today is not yet too late to ask again - are you sure about that? could there be mistakes?

 

[midwestHIGHS]

Hey jump, I know you asked hmk but figured id chime in. from what Ive seen posted by another member, yes you can turn oil made using isopropyl alcohol into budder/wax texture. also budderking the guy who famed the bullshit claim of his 98% thc budder was said to use IPA to make his budder. Ive never done it personally though with IPA, I have tried with ethanol washes and nothing happened.

making some jack herer absolute in day or so when this rain clears up !!! cant wait

 

[shakenstar]

I have tried with ethanol washes and nothing happened

I've made the same experience a couple times.

 

[midwestHIGHS]

I have zero desire to make budder or waxy textured oils, I was just stating that the many times ive done ethanol washes on mostly bubble hash and herb, a few of times out of curiosity I tryed to whip it into a wax/budder texture and nothing happened.

good for you, you can make a waxy textured qwet product, I like my clear oils.

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

Hey Hashmasta-Kut,
To my shame, I missed this message when it was published,
I was on holiday abroad, away from my computer.
I hope today is not yet too late to ask again - are you sure about that? could there be mistakes?

completely positive. i saw and met someone who did it for a living it seemed. made product with IPA, and buddered it all up with whipping while warm i believe. they whipped all their product to budder.

 

[Flying High]

completely positive. i saw and met someone who did it for a living it seemed. made product with IPA, and buddered it all up with whipping while warm i believe. they whipped all their product to budder.

I must have tried to whip nearly a dozen different IPA extractions into the "famed budder" with just a pinched nerve in my neck from stirring the shit for hours, thinking I was on the verge of success; but in the end it always looked the same regardless of how much I whipped.

After receiving my new 6cfm vacuum pump rated down to 15microns; I decided to throw an IPA concentrate that failed the whipping procedure previously, into a homemade vacuum chamber while I waited for my real vac chamber to arrive.

First, I was blown away by the amount of bubbles that started popping around 28"hg. With my makeshift chamber submerged in a hot bath, I could not exceed 29" on my gauge; but after an hour at 29", I pulled out the concentrate dish with around 1 gram IPA concentrate inside. Just a quick whip and I had a texture similar to most of the so-called Waxes/Budders I have purchased from dispensaries.

I am running some more extracts with both IPA and BHO and will post any pics if I can reproduce the same texture with IPA again...

Just my experiences, hopefully it helps...

 

[eloquentsoution]

very clear explanation. thanks, jump. i do not make budder either. seems like a lot of work. some folks love it though.

 

[Hashmasta-Kut]

I must have tried to whip nearly a dozen different IPA extractions into the "famed budder" with just a pinched nerve in my neck from stirring the shit for hours, thinking I was on the verge of success; but in the end it always looked the same regardless of how much I whipped.

After receiving my new 6cfm vacuum pump rated down to 15microns; I decided to throw an IPA concentrate that failed the whipping procedure previously, into a homemade vacuum chamber while I waited for my real vac chamber to arrive.

First, I was blown away by the amount of bubbles that started popping around 28"hg. With my makeshift chamber submerged in a hot bath, I could not exceed 29" on my gauge; but after an hour at 29", I pulled out the concentrate dish with around 1 gram IPA concentrate inside. Just a quick whip and I had a texture similar to most of the so-called Waxes/Budders I have purchased from dispensaries.

I am running some more extracts with both IPA and BHO and will post any pics if I can reproduce the same texture with IPA again...

Just my experiences, hopefully it helps...

so it seems removing some terpenes made it whip easier?

 

[Flying High]

I'm not sure if removing Terpenes is what made it whip or not?
My theory is the moisture is boiled out under vacuum, creating a drier and less sticky concentrate, without heat in excess of 120F maximum, which I think also helps in leaving a lighter colored extract versus my higher temperature(250f) decarbed extracts for edibles.

The initial purge on that batch(ISO whipped and smoked) was kept between 100f-140f, via water bath, with a fan blowing across the dish until liquid alcohol/water is evaporated.

Then I scraped up the extract into a dish/parchment, and place into the vac chamber. I run the vacuum to a reading of 30" on the two gauges on my system, with around one third of the vacuum chamber in a 120f-140f water bath, which seemed to give an interior temperature via infrared of between 90f-110f. The bath is to keep the oil from solidifying as others have noted; which stops(slows) the purge process.

If my understanding and experience are correct, by pulling a vacuum of 29.5" or greater while maintaining the oil in a viscous enough state to off-gas easily, allows for the relatively low temperature(110f) removal of water.

In my limited experience, the amount of water in a sample seems to relate to the amount of sticky an extract exudes. Although I must say, decarbing extracted oil via oil bath at 250f for 30 minutes produces a sticky as anything extract that is rock hard at room temperature, so I'm not sure how much validity my theory holds because the water in those extracts boils off at 212; well short of 250f working temp?

The drying I am referring to is much more pronounced in BHO for me personally. While I am a neophyte, still learning from you masters here on ICmag or anywhere I can for that matter; I have amassed a small amount of experience using Butane and vacuum as well.

After the initial purge at/or below 110F, I scrape and collect the extract in a suitable vessel and vacuum purge at 30" for at least an hour the last several runs, if not longer. After the initial expansion, and some time later(5-15min+)the following contraction, the extract then turns into a smooth oil. At this point I removed my first sample and tested via HMK swing .... It left a little soot on the pad, so back into the vac chamber at 30" and I noticed the oil still bubbling. Not so much the larger irregular Butane bubbles, these looked more like boiling water. So I let that sit in the vacuum at 30", with just enough warmth to maintain the oil as liquid(110fish) for several hours. During the last hour, I observed the bubbles stop in some of the shallower pools on the parchment paper and eventually these areas took on a slightly dried look. So I let the extract sit under vacuum until the entire piece(5g.) dried out which took another hour or so; followed by a cool down to 70f room temperature before handling.

Upon removal from parchment paper by a clean peel, the extract was like taffy, very flexible but not sticky to even a ten second touch. After mild heat to warm into a workable state, this "oil" became the first true batch of what I would call fully purged BHO wax; that is, after ten minutes of stirring/whipping with a ti dabber. It can now be broken up by hand from solid at room temperature, not stick to my fingers during the process, and then my favorite part, dropped onto a hot ti pad; vaporizing with a sea of gold/amber to clear bubbles which leave no detectable soot or residue at all. The claim in my piece looks bright golden, not dark in the slightest; it actually may look slightly better than the wax...

I have a long way to go in my higher learning of the advanced techniques available for Butane and/or alcohol extraction; but I feel a full purge is easy achievable under vacuum, as is achieving a wax consistency extract after purge and some work. Is adding air(whipping) required; I don't think so, but it is a little easier to handle after whipping into a wax.

just my two cents...

I think my next step is to actually get a LP5 tank full of 99.5% pure n-butane from AirGas or Praxair; along with a Tamisium TE-175 to add a little more safety to my horse play... I just hope I get the Tami before the tane; I forsee chaos trying to use a 20lbs tank to blow thru a Stainless or glass tube

 

[RedwoodExtracts]

Just a buddy of mine who was saying it, he said some stuff and had some scientific info that I don't remember, but nothing that said butane had anything to do with it... Seriously you can tell if your stuff is underpurged...


BTW BHT You make me sad as fuck with all that oil :'(.

budder is often the pre stage of honeycomb/earwax, orjust budder if thats what your into. you do not have to whip your bho to get it to hve this effect. there are a number of ways: like others were saying, some strains will "autobudder". now that term doesnt really make sence....when i say autobudder i do not mean it turns instantly into budder. some strains require high agitation using the atmosphereic conditions, other require next to none;and ifyour trying to make a shatter, low agitation too early on will cause a budder effect. agitation too early will lock residuals. i.e. whipping. you can get the oil very close to proper, but it will retain this certain chemy taste and during a residual test will generally spark everytime. alot of people are ok with this.....if bho is what we are making, we need to do the absolute best we can. not kind of try. for thoes who use vacuum setups, be careful with muffining. this process is know to trap trace residuals that when released makes the oil much cleaner, but will remove the honeycomb effect. say you blasted indoor strawberry kush. the oil will b very light and very eager to foam. if you pick up your dish for a min and start walking, the bubbles may start to react. if they do, you may have agitated too early. I personally belive that once the oil has switched to evaporating terps(small bubbles, with practice you can recognize) from evaporating butane. the butane will continue to purge out but at a muh slower rate. by the time the desired about of butane is evaporated, more terps are gone thsn you want. keep in mind im speaking for my honeycomb method. so....muffining in a vac is roughly the same as whipping bho....locks trace residuals whether they be butane or heavy metals from various sources. damn can lube.... I vote leaving the dish in a hot water bath until almost hard. then scrape onto parchemnt. if ypou do this at the right time, the tools you use bash into the exposed terps(from the butane acting under density stratification) open up, allow air and stratification of gas to move freely. then pop her in a vac oven set at 132F. carefullwith temps...higher temps equal less terps. 110=thc 115=thca. honeycomb is exposed terps on surface ready to burn away. if your making honeycomb and pre-activating the thc, try not to trap residuals. if you do it right with the right strain in makes white and yellow beautiful honeycomb with no whipping. if you dont whip and you cant always choose train...make shatter. yelllow shatter. with a funnel. and a borosilicate filter....

 

[RedwoodExtracts]

I'm not exactly sure what the mechanisim is that causes cannabis to budder, or all the variables, as I haven't studied it deeply.

Some strains budder all by themselves just aging (self abuse?)and it seems probable that you can go blind beating other strains, without any sign of buddering.

One thing that I am clear on and that is that all budder most definitely doesn't have retained butane in it, even if it is easier to get oil to budder before being fully purged.

I like this post and i agree. if making honeycomb, i suggest letting it be what it wanta to be and choose strain carefully. this is just my theory, but butane can be used to make "fake" honeycomb(no offence) or budder. or you can put it at 25 hg in a vac oven. if it waxes at 130F or under reletively quickely, you have a ideal strain for wax. wax is easy to make with whipping or very very thick vacuum muffining. not so easy to make under what I consider genuine terms. i dont like residuals.........winterize or at least funnel dewax with borosilicate or lab filter. Greywolf I am under no terms telling you what to do simply talking. dont want you to get confused by the quote. started this off by agnologing your post. long story short, i agree....some(alot) but far from all budders have trapped residuals. and honeycomb is not the only option with budder.

 

[Leonleon08]

I'm not sure if removing Terpenes is what made it whip or not?
My theory is the moisture is boiled out under vacuum, creating a drier and less sticky concentrate, without heat in excess of 120F maximum, which I think also helps in leaving a lighter colored extract versus my higher temperature(250f) decarbed extracts for edibles.

The initial purge on that batch(ISO whipped and smoked) was kept between 100f-140f, via water bath, with a fan blowing across the dish until liquid alcohol/water is evaporated.

Then I scraped up the extract into a dish/parchment, and place into the vac chamber. I run the vacuum to a reading of 30" on the two gauges on my system, with around one third of the vacuum chamber in a 120f-140f water bath, which seemed to give an interior temperature via infrared of between 90f-110f. The bath is to keep the oil from solidifying as others have noted; which stops(slows) the purge process.

If my understanding and experience are correct, by pulling a vacuum of 29.5" or greater while maintaining the oil in a viscous enough state to off-gas easily, allows for the relatively low temperature(110f) removal of water.

In my limited experience, the amount of water in a sample seems to relate to the amount of sticky an extract exudes. Although I must say, decarbing extracted oil via oil bath at 250f for 30 minutes produces a sticky as anything extract that is rock hard at room temperature, so I'm not sure how much validity my theory holds because the water in those extracts boils off at 212; well short of 250f working temp?

The drying I am referring to is much more pronounced in BHO for me personally. While I am a neophyte, still learning from you masters here on ICmag or anywhere I can for that matter; I have amassed a small amount of experience using Butane and vacuum as well.

After the initial purge at/or below 110F, I scrape and collect the extract in a suitable vessel and vacuum purge at 30" for at least an hour the last several runs, if not longer. After the initial expansion, and some time later(5-15min+)the following contraction, the extract then turns into a smooth oil. At this point I removed my first sample and tested via HMK swing .... It left a little soot on the pad, so back into the vac chamber at 30" and I noticed the oil still bubbling. Not so much the larger irregular Butane bubbles, these looked more like boiling water. So I let that sit in the vacuum at 30", with just enough warmth to maintain the oil as liquid(110fish) for several hours. During the last hour, I observed the bubbles stop in some of the shallower pools on the parchment paper and eventually these areas took on a slightly dried look. So I let the extract sit under vacuum until the entire piece(5g.) dried out which took another hour or so; followed by a cool down to 70f room temperature before handling.

Upon removal from parchment paper by a clean peel, the extract was like taffy, very flexible but not sticky to even a ten second touch. After mild heat to warm into a workable state, this "oil" became the first true batch of what I would call fully purged BHO wax; that is, after ten minutes of stirring/whipping with a ti dabber. It can now be broken up by hand from solid at room temperature, not stick to my fingers during the process, and then my favorite part, dropped onto a hot ti pad; vaporizing with a sea of gold/amber to clear bubbles which leave no detectable soot or residue at all. The claim in my piece looks bright golden, not dark in the slightest; it actually may look slightly better than the wax...

I have a long way to go in my higher learning of the advanced techniques available for Butane and/or alcohol extraction; but I feel a full purge is easy achievable under vacuum, as is achieving a wax consistency extract after purge and some work. Is adding air(whipping) required; I don't think so, but it is a little easier to handle after whipping into a wax.

just my two cents...

I think my next step is to actually get a LP5 tank full of 99.5% pure n-butane from AirGas or Praxair; along with a Tamisium TE-175 to add a little more safety to my horse play... I just hope I get the Tami before the tane; I forsee chaos trying to use a 20lbs tank to blow thru a Stainless or glass tube

Thanks man so much I've such hard time here trying to make honeycomb that is what I really like. So after I extract and is in the Pyrex I've my vacuum oven and pump ready and hot surface. What should I do ? Please help.