Bet This One Stumps Ya

[Asazo]

Hey Everyone. Learned much from you just reading thru for a while, but now I need some help. First time grow. Ive searched all the pics and guides for sick plants, but haven't found anything that looks/sounds like what i got. Please take a look below.

Strain is Endless Sky from DrGreenthmb and heres my situation:

HYDROPONIC

What STRAIN are you growing? Endless sky (Iranian Indica mom x Grenadine (Grenadine = [(Niagara X Shiva) X G-13]
What was the establishing technique? Seeds
What is the age of your plants? Started on Dec 28, so 2.5 wks
What PHASE are the plants in? about 3-4 inches w/ about 5 compact nodes
What Technique are you using? was using recirc drip, ultrasonic fogger, and roots were hanging some in res below, so DWC??
What substrate/medium are you using?hydroton
What is the Nutrient temperature? has gone from 70 up to 77(still tryiing to cool it...)
What Nutrient's are you using? GH floranova grow
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using? was 220, then up to 360 several days ago, dropped down to 125
What is the pH of the "Tank"? now 5.85, but usu tween 6 and 6.5 (6.3 mostly)
Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment? pretty sure...?
When was your last watering? flushed yestrday and stopped drip, now just using fogger
When was your last feeding change? did foliar feed (spray n grow) once about week ago
What size bulb are you using? 600w MH
What is the distance to the canopy? 1.5 to 2 feet
What is your RH Factor? usu low 30s, lately around 40
What is the canopy temperature? tween 79 and 84, usu around 81
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range) no real change -- lights on 24hr
What is the current Air Flow? not sure, but "decent"?
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? not now, need get fan for inside cab
Is your water HARD or SOFT? tds is 35

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When? Nope
Are plant's infected with pest's Dont see any pests

Plants were looking good for while, then first set of real leaves started getting faint light green splotches near tips which slowly got lighter in color, almost yellow, but not, and then slight brown. this workd it s way in to the stem as the leaf slowly dryd up. as next set of healthy looking leaves came in, the next set near the bottom started doing the same. its now afecting the thrd node fromn the bottom and not showing any signs of stopping.

Noticed that most recent leaves coming in are looking thinner, kinda sativa like, then the first leaves that came in which were rounder and fatter. i'm dying for ANY help you people got to offer. i'm totally lost and don't know what to do. should i trim off yuckky leaves or leave em on? Hoping this isnt a total loss for uncle's sake -- im growing his mediciine and messing this up would really be pretty crappy situation for him. please help if you can. thanks and peace. i'll try to put in pics if i can.

 

[Weedhound]

someone else may know....I'd need some photos. Don't let your ph wander above 6.2....check and adjust it as often as necessary.

I dont really understand your ppm/tds schedule. 220....then 360....then 125? Is there a pattern of some sort there I'm missing there?

Are you changing your res weekly to rebalance the ratios of your nutes? If not....I'd do it right away to start off with.

Lastly get some ventilation going....that's as important as anything else you need to do.

Water temps being too high can definitely cause you some issues as well.

Photos...pretty please...... Good luck.

 

[Asazo]

hey weedhound, thanks for replyiing.
not sure if i did this right or not, but my pics are down below. ill be sure to keep pH below 6.2 from here on (checking it 2x day). tds: i was trying to slowly increase the nutes from 220 up by just a bit to 360 before going on up further every week or so, but thats when the leaves started looking like this. thats why i backed off to 120, hoping that easing up might help them out a bit. i was planning on not taking em past 800 or so. yeah, i'm changing the res 1x week. not sure, but think the ventilation is "ok" cuz the temps aren't going beyond 85 w/ a 600w in a tight space. i do need to get a fan inside. was hoping to get away without using a chiller due to $$$, but think i'll need to figure somethin out. been adding ice every a.m. pleaase take a look of the pics and let me know what you think. thanks again.
ARGH
Dont know what i'm doing wrong, but when i click on one of my images to add it to this post it places a URL here adn then i'm unable to post til i remove the URL. i am hopeless!

 

[MynameStitch]

Did this problem start before you foliar fed them?
They need more nutrients than just your grow, they need micros too, I know the grow has micros, but you need a complete set when you have soft water like you are using.

Those temps got to come down, you will most definatly get root rot if you don't.
WHat color are the roots?
Those pH levels need to stay stable for sure, I am sure the brownish you are having now is causing by the pH going up and down and the plants not absorbing nutrients right, along with those water temps.

Do not add ice to your mixture, it has chlorine in it and can cause problems, you shold always let water sit out before you use it in your system.

Another thing, to keep your temps cool, try to keep all grow equipment that makes heat out of the room, like air pumps and such, ballest's and so forth.

TO keep temps down, use 2 liter bottles and switch them off, keep one in the freezer at all times, or more than one depending on the size of your res, freeze it and put the 2 liter bottle in the res and when it melts get a new one from the freezer and put the one that was melted back in the freezer and rotate, this helps a lot when you don't have money for a chiller, it's a pain in the ass sometimes when you have a lot of heat in the grow room, and the bottles will melt fast sometimes.
First fix the temps and the pH then raise the PPM's to about 400.

 

[Weedhound]

I tried to upload some photos myself when I had an issue and I wasn't able to do it either so guess I'm in the same boat, lol. I need to figure out how things work around here because I honestly don't have a clue.

Smart move to drop the nute level until you figure out the issue.....most folks up it and it's not usually a good thing.....less is better when trying to determine the problem. Too little nutes will make a deficiency worse but too many can fry your plant a lot quicker.

Wah...I really want photos. Have you looked through MyNameStitch's excellent sticky on plant problems at the top of this forum? If not...give it a look... great information and lots of photos. If you see one that looks like your issue...hollar.

What meter are you using to measure your ppms? do you know if it is at a 700 or 500 conversion? What brand is it?

Usually when something "starts at the bottom" and moves up it's an issue with the water...be it nutes or abnormal ph but it's usually something basic. What sort of schedule are you following with the nutes? By that I mean are you going off the directions off the bottle or ?? I don't use GH floranova series myself so am not really familiar with their nute schedule......hopefully someone else is.

Are you using your regular tap water? If you have a water softener of some sort on it I'd stop using that....it will strip the calcium and other "good" minerals from your water and leave the crud you don't really want. If you are using RO or something (tds of 35 seems high for RO water) then you'd need some CalMag.

Also not familiar the ultrasonic fogger (is it for the roots or the leaves?) so there may be something there that I'm missing due to my own ignorance.

Basically I'm throwing out a bunch of stuff because I dont really know what your problem is. Photos would help so much......sorry I'm not more help.

 

[Asazo]

Did this problem start before you foliar fed them?
They need more nutrients than just your grow, they need micros too, I know the grow has micros, but you need a complete set when you have soft water like you are using.

Those temps got to come down, you will most definatly get root rot if you don't.
WHat color are the roots?
Those pH levels need to stay stable for sure, I am sure the brownish you are having now is causing by the pH going up and down and the plants not absorbing nutrients right, along with those water temps.

Do not add ice to your mixture, it has chlorine in it and can cause problems, you shold always let water sit out before you use it in your system.

Another thing, to keep your temps cool, try to keep all grow equipment that makes heat out of the room, like air pumps and such, ballest's and so forth.

TO keep temps down, use 2 liter bottles and switch them off, keep one in the freezer at all times, or more than one depending on the size of your res, freeze it and put the 2 liter bottle in the res and when it melts get a new one from the freezer and put the one that was melted back in the freezer and rotate, this helps a lot when you don't have money for a chiller, it's a pain in the ass sometimes when you have a lot of heat in the grow room, and the bottles will melt fast sometimes.
First fix the temps and the pH then raise the PPM's to about 400.

I shoulda talked to you before i started my grow! lol The problem started just before foliar feeding (which i only did once while the lights were on).

Re the micros, any suggestions? I tried finding some info on this site, but its al ittle over my head. The roots are still OK looking -- slightly white/cream color. I'm stoppin the ice cubes and freezin some 2 liter bottles now. Not that much of a pain in the ass, cuz the grow will be (hopefully) meds for a family member. anything that can help him, i dont mind. i'll get religious to get the temps down.

how much bouncing around of the pH is too much? is 5.8 to 6.2 ok?

i got lots of respect for you and what youve got to say about growing, but one thought about the ppm: i just heard from someone who grew this strain before and he said that it is SUPER nute sensitive and recommended i be around 200 right now. would you think thats ok for the time being? thanks for taking the time to help out. i really appreciates it!

 

[Asazo]

hey weedhound

definitly looked thru MynameStitch's sticky -- super helpful, but i couldn't find any that described exactly what was happnin to mine. i dunno, it might have been right in front of me, but i didn't see a pic that quite fit. speking of pics, not sure how to get them on the post, but theyre in my gallery. someday ill have some nice looking girls to put in there, i hope.

using hana TDS 3 meter -- not sure about conversion.

ive been using regular tap water (thought 35 ppm was ok), and ive been adding nutes about once a week after flushing. never knew when i was supposed to put them in, just kinda kept eye on the meter and added when it changed. the ultrasonic fogger is for the roots -- it makes a super fine mist. a little bit does come up from below from time to time but never enough to build up oon the lieaves.

take a look at my plants when you can and let me know what you think. thanks

 

[Weedhound]

Hey Asazo..

Took a look at your photos. Thanks....funny how much pics help. I can't be positive but I will take a guess at an iron def or something along that line. That does not seem like a ph issue to me.

I'm not sure if higher temps could lock out a needed mineral or if your water.....with its tds of 35....is lacking itself in good things like calcium, magnesium, iron etc....
Off the top of my head....I'd say the problem is in your water. (guess!)

You might want to try adding a bit of CalMag to your water. If your REALLY want to go crazy and get all hydro geeky (as many of us eventually do) you can use RO or distilled water and add CalMag to your regimen. This way gives you more control over exactly what your plants are getting but certainly isn't necessary. Water with a tds of 35 there doesn't seem to be much of anything in it anyway.

Good luck. Let me know what you decide to do.

 

[Weedhound]

So I looked up Hanna ....most of them swing both ways on conversion, lol. How do you calibrate yours....what solution do you use?

 

[Asazo]

Ummm, calibration solution is now on my shopping list. Any recommendations?

 

[Weedhound]

lol, it depends on what your hanna is set for.....there's ec solution and tds solution and all sort of totally cool bottles you can buy to put on your shelf. Do you have the manuel for your hanna? It should say......if it recommends to calibrate with an ec of 1.413 or tds/1500 solution then its going at a 700 conversion.

I have a feeling that adding CalMag is your answer here.....but only way to really know is to add it and see. If you keep your ph between 5.6-6.2 imo you should be good.

Let me know.

 

[MynameStitch]

Ya, weedhound has given you some very solid advice asazo!
Like he said; they HAVE to have micros in there since your water TDS is so low.
As for the high ppm's and the strain; the plants may be sensitive; I have not grown the strain before, but for that plant size even if it's picky they don't have any micronutrients right now; so they are hungry so add around 300-400 and that is including your micronutrients, weedhound has given you ones to use and yes calibration solution is to be used on your meter every 2 weeks max or you will get incorrect values.

As for the water temps and pH. Water temps cooler temps allows more dissolved oxygen (DO) and allows for better nutrient absorption, it can cause a problem, but not the major problem you are seeing now, your roots are fine so there is just not enough food for the plants.

As for the pH, you want to keep it in the range you given, but for best range 5.5 to 5.8 is the best range to keep it in.

 

[Weedhound]

Thanks Stitch. I really appreciate that coming from you.....I hand out your guide to plants and pest troubles to everyone who walks by.

 

[MynameStitch]

Anytime weedhound You always have given out good advice from the posts I have seen.

Thanks man, that means a lot and I am glad it helps most people!

 

[Asazo]

CalMag, check. Cooler res, check. Calibration, check. Steady pH around 5.5-5.8, check. Feed em more, check.

Thanks everyone, I do appreciate it. I'm afraid that i might have lost a couple already, but the others are still holding on,....barely, fighting for dear life. Of course im hoping this all works out. If it doesnt, not the end of the world, I came across this forum and MynameStitch's sick plant guide. Definitely learn lot more by doing (and screwing up) than just by readin about it. Good experience gained thanks to everyone here in this forum -- waaay kool people. Much love.

 

[Weedhound]

If we've pinned the problem correctly you should see a pretty good turn around pretty quickly. Look for healthy new growth. I have a feeling once you get everything in place they'll grow like mad.

 

[MynameStitch]

Keep us updated bro! Weedhound is very correct too; look for it to recover quickly!

 

[Blackvelvet]

What Nutrient's are you using? GH floranova grow
did foliar feed (spray n grow) once about week ago
lights on 24hr

Floranova does not need extra cal mag. You should not have to foliar feed. Remember it is irreversible once sprayed. Lights should be on 18/6 not 24/0 when using hid.

 

[ethereal]

good advice BV

 

[BigAl]

I only looked at the first photo in your gallery and the plants look pretty green.

I would do as the last bloke suggested, drop the photoperiod back to 18hrs and see what happens. I wouldn't do anything else just yet, a ph of 5.8-6.0 is failsafe.