Bernie Sanders calls for an end to marijuana prohibition

[Jhhnn]

Jhhnn I could honestly care less about Marijuana legalization as an issue for this next election. Let the states decide, me personally I see a country that is exceptionally lenient on Marijuana already. I see a country that is facing tremendous problems, worrying about whether or not jhhn can smoke a joint on his porch is the least of my concerns.

The states and the people in those states should decide, it's not the president's job to battle every minor social issue. But go ahead you are demostrating how easily bought you are, don't sell yourself so cheaply.

If you don't care, why are you posting in this thread?

Exceptionally lenient is bullshit, particularly since it never should have been illegal in the first place. Tens of millions of people have been jailed, fined & many of them saddled with felony convictions over my lifetime for no good reason other than feeding the prison industrial complex.

The whole thing about "minor social issues" is dishonest. Lots of things were that until they weren't- women's suffrage, miscegenation, segregation, voting rights, & gay rights to name a few. Cannabis prohibition is much the same, a deep social injustice that has festered for decades.

What you propose about the States is what Bernie proposes, too. With cannabis illegal at the federal level there will always be some damned fool wanting to turn it back & trying to get into the position to do so, somebody like Mitt or Christie.

 

[Jhhnn]

No I just used the Home Depot thing as an example, maybe a bad one. The same has happened with the likes of Walmart and the neighborhood grocer. What I meant was the extent of government in the involvement of your business. The big guys are able to deal with it much easier than the little guy. Hell, as an employer, if I have to deal with an increased minimum wage what am I going to do…raise prices and potentially lose customers or lay people off. That’s what happens when revenues stay flat and expenses go up. Raising taxes has the same effect. Look what Obamacare did. It basically turned a lot of full time employees into part timers. Sure some could say the employers are the bad guys and just taking advantage of how things were written but those consequences should have been realized before the act was ever implemented.

I’m not in the big business band wagon but big government tends to be counterproductive in the productivity arena. Small business employs a majority of the workforce but it’s getting harder and harder for them because of all the government red tape.

There is no real indication that Obamacare led to less full time employment-

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-obamacare-causing-a-surge-in-part-time-work/

It's just more of the usual right wing fear mongering & nay saying presented as fact.

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

If you don't care, why are you posting in this thread?

Exceptionally lenient is bullshit, particularly since it never should have been illegal in the first place. Tens of millions of people have been jailed, fined & many of them saddled with felony convictions over my lifetime for no good reason other than feeding the prison industrial complex.
.

Jhhn has no life he keeps proving points to himself long after everyone has stopped caring.

Jhhnn this is the last thing I have to really say here.

23 states are now medical and or decriminalized out of those 23 states 2 are fully legal most of those states are both medical and decriminalized for non med folks. Anyone that is getting in any real trouble in those states is unlawfully pushing weight, if you abide by the few rules you're not going to have a problem.

How much more lenient do you need? You really care is Kansas has legal weed? If the voters in that state want it bad enough they'll get it just like the citizens in the 23 states with soft pot laws.

Some states have a high percentage of up tight a-holes that may just not want soft pot laws and that's their business, I don't live
there so I don't really care.

Go ahead, have your last word already...

 

[igrowone]

i live in the 'medical' cannabis state of NY
it's not legal yet, that's not until jan, 2016
and even in 2016 it's legal only for cancer, aids, and few other things
NY is not legal in any real sense of the word, and we do want better

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

i live in the 'medical' cannabis state of NY
it's not legal yet, that's not until jan, 2016
and even in 2016 it's legal only for cancer, aids, and few other things
NY is not legal in any real sense of the word, and we do want better

NY is decriminalized $100 ticket for 25 grams or less.
$100 ticket is a very small sum of money compared to what you'd even pay in taxes in the legal MJ states.

http://norml.org/laws/item/new-york-penalties-2

 

[igrowone]

NY is decriminalized $100 ticket for 25 grams or less.

http://norml.org/laws/item/new-york-penalties-2

decriminalized for simple possession
not for home growers that grow their own medicine
misdemeanor minimum, felony at their discretion
NY is not the worst, and it's not the best

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

decriminalized for simple possession
not for home growers that grow their own medicine
misdemeanor minimum, felony at their discretion
NY is not the worst, and it's not the best

The point being made is that many states are lenient towards pot.

NY is pretty damn lenient all things considered.

 

[Jhhnn]

The point being made is that many states are lenient towards pot.

NY is pretty damn lenient all things considered.

Is there something wrong about cannabis use so that we should accept leniency over legalization?

There's a huge conceptual shift between decrim & legalization.

With decrim, possession is still "wrong", given that progressive fines & penalties are invoked & it's wrong enough that the authorities attempt to prevent us from having it by criminalizing producers & suppliers.

With legalization, possession is a right as is the right to obtain it thru legal channels.

Decrim is still rejection. Legalization is acceptance.

There's an equally large difference between MMJ and Legalization.

With MMJ, patients can have it because they need it. Other people can't have it. That's the theory, anyway.

With legalization, all pretense is stripped away. Adults can have it if they want it, like beer or cigarettes.

It's remarkable that a guy who's been ranting about communist authoritarianism & shamelessly tarring a lot of people with that brush should, in the end, tell us that we should accept the pointless authoritarianism of cannabis prohibition because we're being treated leniently.

Quite remarkable indeed.

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

Decrim is still rejection. Legalization is acceptance.

You think legalization is acceptance, you're being charged 25% tax in colorado. Tax is a fee, a fine, its not accepted you are still being punished monetarily for your choice to use a plant.

With legalization as it stands right now on $400 worth of weed you would pay $100 tax. Now compound that by every ounce you will buy in a year.


In many decriminalized states one fine is $100 for a given amount, Maine was like a limit of 4 ounces.


In CO for example you will pay exponentially more in taxes then you'd probably ever incur paying decrim fines which you maybe get fined once in your life time maybe even less if you use in your own home, unless you are a complete and utter moron.

I guess 25% tax sounds pretty awesome to a communist like yourself that also thinks 55% income tax suggested by your man Bernie sounds good.

Over the top taxation is the socialist/communist style, that's how they pay for all the "free" stuff by taxing the shit out of you for everything.

 

[Cur]

You think legalization is acceptance, you're being charged 25% tax in colorado. Tax is a fee, a fine, its not accepted you are still being punished monetarily for your choice to use a plant.

With legalization as it stands right now on $400 worth of weed you would pay $100 tax. Now compound that by every ounce you will buy in a year.


In many decriminalized states one fine is $100 for a given amount, Maine was like a limit of 4 ounces.


In CO for example you will pay exponentially more in taxes then you'd probably ever incur paying decrim fines which you maybe get fined once in your life time maybe even less if you use in your own home, unless you are a complete and utter moron.

I guess 25% tax sounds pretty awesome to a communist like yourself that also thinks 55% income tax suggested by your man Bernie sounds good.

Over the top taxation is the socialist/communist style, that's how they pay for all the "free" stuff by taxing the shit out of you for everything.

Guy... you are being a jerk to the others on this thread. Sincerely. Saying they have no lives, etc... if you don't want legal weed, why are you on this forum?

Paying taxes for something you buy is standard fare. You pay taxes on your tomatoes. On your shampoo. On your dog's food. On your shoes. Welcome to the world. So yeah, if you buy weed at a store you should pay taxes on it, just like beer or cigarettes or chewing gum. Recreational weed is a luxury item. We've been paying luxury taxes on things at higher rates than standard sales tax for many, many years. It used to be that the only things people paid taxes on were luxury items... like whiskey. Which at one point led to the whiskey rebellion... Which was shut the hell down by non other than that most famous of Commies, President George Washington. Knee-jerk much?

But LEGALIZATION is also the right to grow your own... whereas DECRIMINALIZATION is not. You don't pay taxes on the peppers you grow, the beer you brew in your kitchen, or the eggs you pull out from underneath your own chickens. With the federal law being the way that it is, if you *are* caught growing, and the next president decides *not* to turn a blind eye--which he would legally be in the right because according to the constitution's Supremacy Clause federal law overrides state law--then you go to jail. Depending on the amount you grow and/or posses you could go to jail for life. And you are on here insulting people for thinking that is not ok? Please, get out of my thread. If you want to be constructive, cool. If you're going to continue being a jerk just leave.

 

[Jhhnn]

You think legalization is acceptance, you're being charged 25% tax in colorado. Tax is a fee, a fine, its not accepted you are still being punished monetarily for your choice to use a plant.

With legalization as it stands right now on $400 worth of weed you would pay $100 tax. Now compound that by every ounce you will buy in a year.


In many decriminalized states one fine is $100 for a given amount, Maine was like a limit of 4 ounces.


In CO for example you will pay exponentially more in taxes then you'd probably ever incur paying decrim fines which you maybe get fined once in your life time maybe even less if you use in your own home, unless you are a complete and utter moron.

I guess 25% tax sounds pretty awesome to a communist like yourself that also thinks 55% income tax suggested by your man Bernie sounds good.

Over the top taxation is the socialist/communist style, that's how they pay for all the "free" stuff by taxing the shit out of you for everything.

Of course legalization is acceptance. It's also respect, the same kind of respect society gives to drinkers, smokers & gamblers, also respect for the people who provide them with such pleasures.

I don't personally buy much cannabis. I grow it quite legally other than for the now remote threat from federal authorities. What we don't use we give away. I'd be a felon in a decrim state.

Federal legalization would remove even that remote threat.

On the other side of it, retail cannabis seems to be a big hit. People apparently like safe shop environments & everything that comes with it- ease of access, regular hours, selection, honest weight & so forth. They like the idea that profits go to legit business & taxes go to support schools.

It's all voluntary, of course. There's nothing "Communist" about it. I don't think people should settle for less for themselves or future generations.

 

[bombadil.360]

Perhaps you can suggest a constructive alternative, one based in reality.

if I were running for public office, I may have come up with something to tell you; in truth, I'm running FROM public office lol...

seriously though, your question is loaded, i.e: one based on reality.

what's reality anyway?

I could point out all kinds of potential paths to take that are not based on dependence on big government nor about non-dependable capitalists; there's a nice little book out there on economics called 30 seconds economy, or something of the sort, there it is explained in layman's term all the different economic models, and it can also help you identify properly what X or Y candidate is proposing, see its failures when placed in practice, etc...

Cur, don't regret this thread, we love a friendly bantering here I'm sure we can all put our political differences aside and smoke a few joints and have fun

I do agree that Sanders' proposal of legalizing federally to be amazing, who would not want that? I'm sure even HidingInTheHaze would not resist such legalization; but I doubt that Sanders would deliver on such promise, he's just fishing for votes.

In Venezuela we are still waiting for the same exact promises on total legalization of Cannabis after 16 years of Socialist rule (read Communist Dictatorship).

I still remember as it were yesterday the militants of the Socialism of the 21th Century telling us at the university how 1 kilogram for personal use will be allowed immediately after a Constitutional Reform, as well as home growing.

well, they are still throwing 18 year old boys to jail for a joint, specially if you can't pay off the cops...

peace

 

[Betterhaff]

There is no real indication that Obamacare led to less full time employment-

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-obamacare-causing-a-surge-in-part-time-work/

It's just more of the usual right wing fear mongering & nay saying presented as fact.

We could post arguments either way all day long. I’ll post this one as a rebuttal and then just leave the topic for another thread. Sorry for the diversion.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-bl...likely-factor-increasing-part-time-employment

 

[Jhhnn]

if I were running for public office, I may have come up with something to tell you; in truth, I'm running FROM public office lol...

seriously though, your question is loaded, i.e: one based on reality.

what's reality anyway?

I could point out all kinds of potential paths to take that are not based on dependence on big government nor about non-dependable capitalists; there's a nice little book out there on economics called 30 seconds economy, or something of the sort, there it is explained in layman's term all the different economic models, and it can also help you identify properly what X or Y candidate is proposing, see its failures when placed in practice, etc...

Cur, don't regret this thread, we love a friendly bantering here I'm sure we can all put our political differences aside and smoke a few joints and have fun

I do agree that Sanders' proposal of legalizing federally to be amazing, who would not want that? I'm sure even HidingInTheHaze would not resist such legalization; but I doubt that Sanders would deliver on such promise, he's just fishing for votes.

In Venezuela we are still waiting for the same exact promises on total legalization of Cannabis after 16 years of Socialist rule (read Communist Dictatorship).

I still remember as it were yesterday the militants of the Socialism of the 21th Century telling us at the university how 1 kilogram for personal use will be allowed immediately after a Constitutional Reform, as well as home growing.

well, they are still throwing 18 year old boys to jail for a joint, specially if you can't pay off the cops...

peace

What Bernie is telling us is that cannabis policy under a Sanders admin would allow at least as much freedom as the Obama admin whose policy constitutes the greatest advance of the cause since Clinton allowed California MMJ in 1996.

It's not as if he can go much further w/o Congress. It is possible for the executive branch to de-classify cannabis but only under a set of impossible protocols that hostile bureaucracy exploits to the max.

The rest? You merely confirm the idea that reality has a liberal bias.

 

[oldchuck]

I'll add to that, if Bernie is elected President he will be able to make his own executive appointments. AG, FBI director, DEA director FDA, director and so forth. Add other parts of his platform to the Cannabis thing like criminal justice reform, privacy protection, ending the prison industrial complex, several others, then one might expect a clean sweep of these offices. Let's take a guess at the type of people he would appoint.

 

[armedoldhippy]

Let's take a guess at the type of people he would appoint.

i call dibs on DEA director! i think i would be GREAT at the job...

 

[HidingInTheHaze]

Let us begin with the fact that Bernie applied for conscientious objector status during the draft, like Mitt Romney. He never fled to Canada.

The Bill Ayers who visited the Whitehouse isn't that Bill Ayers.

The rest is just slanderous labeling of anybody left of the John Birch Society as OMFG! COMMUNIST!

Anybody with an internet connection & the slightest bit of curiosity can verify that with ease. Well, unless they have an irrational emotional need not to.

Here you go ya dirty commie. The first 30 seconds of this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr4zxv5HG8M

 

[kinesis]

I'm against it, it blocks interstate commerce.

I reminded my Senators that we should focus on the whole picture of cannabis capitalism. Fair equal market opportunity not only for storefronts, but people who wish to ship as well. Focus on trade.gov, ttb.gov, uspto.gov, usps.gov, ustr.gov, doc.gov, adequate SEC enforcement (like what happened in San Jose, CA with the city), sba.gov with grants for dept. of agriculture, export/import through customs, NAFTA or whatever it is, reform of the United Nations Single Convention on Narcotics, etc.

I find it stupid that Bernie Sanders was on a Marijuana.com article saying (in support of the post office deficit ) "Let the USPS ship weed!" now he comes out with a half assed, watered down bullshit bill that restricts capitalism.

 

[Jhhnn]

Here you go ya dirty commie. The first 30 seconds of this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr4zxv5HG8M

That's the same Ben Carson who claimed that the Biblical Joseph built the Pyramids to store grain, right?

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm against it, it blocks interstate commerce.

I reminded my Senators that we should focus on the whole picture of cannabis capitalism. Fair equal market opportunity not only for storefronts, but people who wish to ship as well. Focus on trade.gov, ttb.gov, uspto.gov, usps.gov, ustr.gov, doc.gov, adequate SEC enforcement (like what happened in San Jose, CA with the city), sba.gov with grants for dept. of agriculture, export/import through customs, NAFTA or whatever it is, reform of the United Nations Single Convention on Narcotics, etc.

I find it stupid that Bernie Sanders was on a Marijuana.com article saying (in support of the post office deficit ) "Let the USPS ship weed!" now he comes out with a half assed, watered down bullshit bill that restricts capitalism.

So, uhh, make the perfect the enemy of the good to maintain the status quo?

Would you like a unicorn with that?