Back to bags, no more soil recycling

[VortexPower420]

You might just be over thinking it.

Are you bottle feeding your recycled soil?

"Maybe you had to much to fast, or just over played your part."

 

[Weird]

ive grown both ways and found no til recycling to be far easier and just as productive

I go from cut to small container to final container I have a 3x4 veg and 5 x 10 flower area

thats it

The only reason I mention it is because you have every right to preference but IMHO you are doing it while saying what you where trying to do can't be done and bunch of us have different experience

one of my best friends and grow buds makes his mix fresh every time, he puts it out after

i think hes nuts but I still love him, respect his work and hes still growing sustainable but ti doesn't mean he can't get the same results using less work recycled

need to divide the capacity of the technique your moving from and keep it on the fact you have a methodology that you prefer and for you remains conscious free

nothing wrong with that

 

[MileHighGlass]

ive grown both ways and found no til recycling to be far easier and just as productive

I go from cut to small container to final container I have a 3x4 veg and 5 x 10 flower area

thats it

The only reason I mention it is because you have every right to preference but IMHO you are doing it while saying what you where trying to do can't be done and bunch of us have different experience

one of my best friends and grow buds makes his mix fresh every time, he puts it out after

i think hes nuts but I still love him, respect his work and hes still growing sustainable but ti doesn't mean he can't get the same results using less work recycled

need to divide the capacity of the technique your moving from and keep it on the fact you have a methodology that you prefer and for you remains conscious free

nothing wrong with that

I agree that my experience with bagged soil vs. recycled soil vs. notill has shown me that I like using notill methods. To be fare I only used bagged soil for about a year and I realized real quick that it sucked balls.

I was doing notill in my outdoor garden so it made sense to do it in my indoor garden as well. Although no I'm thinking I made start using bagged soil in my vegetable garden. I joke...

You are the only person I have came across that won't do notill.

You are like a modern day weed growing unicorn.

Do what you want, and do what you feel comfortable with. That's all we can do.

 

[Microbeman]

Densite definitely becomes an issue as does sandiness.

It becomes hard to maintan that loamy quality as materials break down.

Really good quality bagged compost is hard to find and isn't cheap. At that rate between adding more pumus, ewc and compost you are basically at the expense of bagged soil.

I recently bought a large bag of coast of maine compost, tons of gnats which really sucker because I have been gnat free for quite some time.

No til beds would work better if you have the space for that sort of thing.

Did you say you were buying hundreds of pounds of EWC? If you are up to that volume it sounds as if you do have room for no til bins. When we switched to no til it was because we were tired of remixing. For space saving we stacked the bins 4 high around 3 1000s HPS (becoming vertical garden). Need a super floor though. We never dug the soil up again. Maybe the yield was less than some expect (1.5 lb per light every 60 to 70 days) It was easy peazy and the cost each crop, not counting labor and electricity was about $80 to $100.

I wish it was easier growing tomatoes, potatoes and asparagus than cannabis cause we sure could have made way more doing that.

At least your spent soil goes into your garden.

 

[Microbeman]

I agree it's easy, just not up for experimenting ar this point in time.

I'm a actually quite familiar with the process I have been kicking around IC since 2007 under a different name. I've seen all the trends pass thru here from bukashi, recycled, roll, no til etc..

This place hasn't been the same since vonforne, mad liberttist, gascan, the coot, etc left

Vonforne didn't leave. Those other guys were all at each other's throats at the end.

 

[FireIn.TheSky]

Did you say you were buying hundreds of pounds of EWC? If you are up to that volume it sounds as if you do have room .

Through out the year yes, it doesn't take much to equate to hundreds of lbs when you buy 30lb bags.

Those can be stored anywhere though, not like no til bins that would need to be stored in my growing area.

You guys are kind of missing the point, I know all about nontil but i still decide at this point in time it's not the time to try new this or get back onto that band wagon.

I bet if you no til long enough with the same soil you will run on to problems.

Alot of pepole that preach this stuff have not done it for any length of time themselves. Not saying you personally but many.

When your nontil is over 3 years old then we'll talk.

Compaction, density, and sandiness are problems in see after running so long as well as a buildup of salts and minerals.

When you do recycled or no til you are basically working with a soil as the materials degrade it becomes a humus. Bagged mix made of peat, coco etc is a soiless. So it's organic soiless basically.

 

[Weird]

been doing no til in the same 10 gallon smart pots since the start of 13'

 

[Weird]

sounds like you listened to the dudes selling the tech as they where learning it

in the end they became salesmen of solutions not flowers

lol funny how that works out

 

[FireIn.TheSky]

been doing no til in the same 10 gallon smart pots since the start of 13'

Weird you're an anolomly, been here long enough not to doubt you know what you are doing. Most ppl here preach this or that but do not have the experience to back it up.

Again I am not denying it works and works well. I am saying for me it's old and worn out.

I don't have nearly the amount of time I used to have for this stuff. These days unjust want to open a bag and fill pots.

 

[Avinash.miles]

instead of buying tons of ewc you could just toss worms in your beds to make the castings directly where you need them, on the plants. best part is live worms in your soil will eat those amendments (what you add back should DOUBLE your soil volume in a few months, lol, rite? no chance) and turn them directly into rich castings.... and worms reproduce....
since adding worms to my beds (cost 50$ or so) i haven't bought a single bag of castings....

 

[MileHighGlass]

Through out the year yes, it doesn't take much to equate to hundreds of lbs when you buy 30lb bags.

Those can be stored anywhere though, not like no til bins that would need to be stored in my growing area.

You guys are kind of missing the point, I know all about nontil but i still decide at this point in time it's not the time to try new this or get back onto that band wagon.

I bet if you no til long enough with the same soil you will run on to problems.

Alot of pepole that preach this stuff have not done it for any length of time themselves. Not saying you personally but many.

When your nontil is over 3 years old then we'll talk.

Compaction, density, and sandiness are problems in see after running so long as well as a buildup of salts and minerals.

When you do recycled or no til you are basically working with a soil as the materials degrade it becomes a humus. Bagged mix made of peat, coco etc is a soiless. So it's organic soiless basically.

This is why you use your notill pot that is say 6-8 runs deep as your compost material for new pots.

A lot of people that say "i'm on my 16th run" leave this little tidbit out. They don't like to say that the soil is actually new soil with old soil as compost material. I go 5-8 runs before I do this. I here of people doing longer, but I want a consistent product and consistent results.

I am testing a notill soil that is perlite free that I plan to only run for 12 months and then turn it out in my vegetable garden.

Compaction, salt, stratification, high potassium, super high n, etc... can all happen if your shit gets out of whack. I have some soil that I am getting ready to retire that has dropped 2 inches in the its pots. That is a sign to me that its about time to change it out. It is performing just fine(for now), but I would rather go out on a high.

 

[FireIn.TheSky]

Compaction, salt, stratification, high potassium, super high n, etc... can all happen if your shit gets out of whack. I have some soil that I am getting ready to retire that has dropped 2 inches in the its pots. That is a sign to me that its about time to change it out. It is performing just fine(for now), but I would rather go out on a high.

This is exactly the point I am at now, some plants growperfect, especially the ones in small pots. Veg is like 75% ok 25% unhealthy plants.

Flower is doing ok but I know on most strains the quality could be better. I have some plants I have been running for years so I know when quality drops off. I have had a few all starts that do excellent no matter what.
Ppl have mentioned worms, worms don't do well in reamended soil, when you mix a new batch it gets hot for a few days while composting and all of the worms die.


I think what I am going to do is mark this time on the calendar, run thru bag mix fully once, reamend once then toss.

It's really when the soil composition starts to break down that things need to be added. And ph needs fixing.

I was getting buffalo loam compost for a while which is great but the stuff has been impossible to find. Most other bagged compost is shit. Coast of maine is all gnats and black gold is primarily peanut shells,gnats and peat. I can get Alaska forest humus but it's thick and muddy it certainly doesn't help problems.

It pisses me off when they cut compost with peat, at that rate is is a bagged soil minus the perlite.

One thing that sucks about going back to bags is perlite, I have been using pumus for years because it blends in better when you dump it. Perlite looks like it snowed every time it rains, I hate perlite.

When I reamend I will use rice hull and pumus.

 

[Avinash.miles]

damn i must not being doing this right....
my soil doesn't get hot when i re-amend and my worms don't all die when i re-amend...

granted currently im only my 3rd now in current containers (last year did 4 runs in same containers)- and i'm not hitting 2 per light consistently or anything, either, but i'm content with the yeilds and beyond happy with the bag appeal and smoke quality of my shit (no-one complains about quality)

even with organic soil all good things must end, and nothing last forever when in these microcosm grow rooms (removed from nature) - but i like milehighglass' idea of using "spent" soil by re-amending it and using as topdress on other beds or pots.

also, it ain't even no-till you are moving away from re-using soil indoors? if i understand correctly what you are saying is that you are not doing no till you are not reusing or recycling within the ganja garden (indoor i assume), and plan on purchasing amended and ready to use soil for each run, dumping it and starting over each time with fresh bagged soil.
and i assume you must prefer organic soil weed over hydro or coco (altho it yields higher and looks better in a bag), right?

that buffalo loam is in stores by me, in medium size bags and 5 gallon buckets full of the stuff - i should try some out perhaps? i'm not yet producing as much compost as i need, so sometimes i buy oly mtn... would love to get some coast of maine but not really available by me.

maybe it was the damn bandaid in that bag of black gold that turned me off of bagged soil, perhaps a bit traumatic for me

anyhow fireinthesky, you can ignore me if you want i am pressing the issues.... just because i don't fully understand, (my soil does not double in volume from re-amending, my worms do not die from re-amending, i live in an agricultural area and a mineralized area therefore have access to bulk raw material, i enjoy making concoctions like fermented plant extracts and brewing teas - and discounting the labor intensive outdoor season, my indoor is relatively little labor imo)
but different strokes for different folks.

 

[FireIn.TheSky]

Avanish wtf are you talking about, igoring you? What have I ignored? I answered every question you have written, read more posts than your own buddy.

You guys like it when I rewrite the same thing over and over, I swear everyone comes into this thread and asks or says the same things.

Yes not for me, if it's for you wonderful. Maybe you sit home all day and have an abundance of time to sit and fap over your soil.

I work full time + and have a host of other obligations, you guys get that?

There is that fine line of ease and quality, when you domt have the time or desire to go over board with shit but you still want to grow organically.

Avanish you are on your third recycling run, it's no doubt you don't understand what I am talking about. When the age of your soil is measured in years maybe you will get it but I will not sit here and address every point of idiocy in that post.

It's all or nothing around here many of you fail to realize there is many ways to skin a cat. Before any of this no til and rols shit came about this is the way it was done. Even then rols/no til is not a new idea, it was a hijacked idea that was renamed, the term "forest gardening" was coined by Robert Hart in the 1980s and the concept goes back to prehistoric times.

I know what i say goes against the cult like atmosphere but it does not make it any less organic then what you are doing, you are fooling yourself as you sit on a pious thrown if that's what you believe.

 

[St. Phatty]

I have 3 rolling gargage cans, each with about 3 cubic feet of soil - and a cannabis stalk sticking out.

I let the rain rain on them for about 6 weeks. Not for any reason, I just hadn't gotten around to doing anything.

Now I'm covering them and thinking about what to add. Probably more of the same - bat guano, some wood ash, bone meal, forest humus etc. Then I will add some worms from the covered compost pile (covered to keep the chickens from eating the worms).

I figure by spring it will be decent for growing.

 

[DocTim420]

Not taking sides...but "no till" works for some, and not for others. I am in the "not for others" camp.

Why?

First, consistency in both "quality" and "quantity" is my primary goal and...IMO, one of the complications with "no till" philosophy is, over time--each container's grow medium develops it's own peculiar qualities (both good and bad)...thus lacking a grow medium consistency I desire.

Second, footprint/real estate. Using 3" containers for cuttings--I can grow 12-16 cuttings in the same footprint a "no till" 5/10 gallon container with a single cutting requires. About 4-6 juvenile sized plants growing in 1/2 gallon containers require about the same footprint as single "no till" 5/10 gallon container with just 1 plant. Not to mention that a larger container requires greater amount of hydration than smaller ones (less gallons to feed the same number of plants).

I have separate "veg" and "flower" environments and my goal is to keep the flower room operating at maximum capacity. If I went "no till", then I would need to double/triple the size of my veg environment to keep my flower room "maxed out"--which not only means more real estate dedicated to vegetative growing but a greater electric bill to operate the additional lights, fans, AC, etc. Cha-ching!

If I was a hobbyist (did not grow exclusively for a collective) then "no till" might be fun--but, that is not my situation.

 

[MileHighGlass]

Buffaloam is expensive but it is my go to compost for compost teas.

My new soil mix that I'm testing I replace perlite with pine bark fines(you can buy a product called soil pep) and I am also using chunky biochar instead of small 3mm biochar. We will see how it performs for 12 months.

The soil that I am getting ready to retire in a run or 2 is a little over 2 years old. It's performed well and as I said before, I would rather go out on a high than run into issues.

 

[growingcrazy]

Avanish wtf are you talking about, igoring you? What have I ignored? I answered every question you have written, read more posts than your own buddy.

You guys like it when I rewrite the same thing over and over, I swear everyone comes into this thread and asks or says the same things.

Yes not for me, if it's for you wonderful. Maybe you sit home all day and have an abundance of time to sit and fap over your soil.

I work full time + and have a host of other obligations, you guys get that?

There is that fine line of ease and quality, when you have the time or desire to go over board with shit but you still want to grow organically.

Avanish you are on your third recycling run, it's no doubt you don't understand what I am talking about. When the age of your soil is measured in years maybe you will get it but I will not sit here and address every point of idiocy in that post.

It's all or nothing around here many of you fail to realize there is many ways to skin a cat. Before any of this no til and rols shit came about this is the way it was done. Even then rols/no til is not a new idea, it was a hijacked idea that was renamed, the term "forest gardening" was coined by Robert Hart in the 1980s and the concept goes back to prehistoric times.

I know what i say goes against the cult like atmosphere but it does not make it any less organic then what you are doing, you are fooling yourself as you sit on a pious thrown if that's what you believe.

All I can say is that if it takes you less time to drive to a store and buy soil, mix it and use then something is wrong. The amount of drive time is more than all of your soil work for recycling.

Working, building a house from start to finish, getting ready for a baby and running a farm full time is what I do and my recycled soil is the least amount of work of any of them.

Just as everyone has said, without a system your flailing with recycling, once you have a real system and you don't base your soil mix on bagged garbage( maybe this is why your recycling fails) you will gain headway and not look back.

Heading to the hydro section now to complain how it sucks and Im going back to bags.

 

[MileHighGlass]

Not taking sides...but "no till" works for some, and not for others. I am in the "not for others" camp.

Why?

First, consistency in both "quality" and "quantity" is my primary goal and...IMO, one of the complications with "no till" philosophy is, over time--each container's grow medium develops it's own peculiar qualities (both good and bad)...thus lacking a grow medium consistency I desire.

Second, footprint/real estate. Using 3" containers for cuttings--I can grow 12-16 cuttings in the same footprint a "no till" 5/10 gallon container with a single cutting requires. About 4-6 juvenile sized plants growing in 1/2 gallon containers require about the same footprint as single "no till" 5/10 gallon container with just 1 plant. Not to mention that a larger container requires greater amount of hydration than smaller ones (less gallons to feed the same number of plants).

I have separate "veg" and "flower" environments and my goal is to keep the flower room operating at maximum capacity. If I went "no till", then I would need to double/triple the size of my veg environment to keep my flower room "maxed out"--which not only means more real estate dedicated to vegetative growing but a greater electric bill to operate the additional lights, fans, AC, etc. Cha-ching!

If I was a hobbyist (did not grow exclusively for a collective) then "no till" might be fun--but, that is not my situation.

I take a clone once rooted put it in a beer cup and then into the flower room for 3-4 weeks and then flip. Less work but you do have to have your flower room setup so that you can do this.

There are a lot of larger grows doing notill now. 100-500 lights and obviously outdoor and greenhouse.

It's definitely not for everyone. there's a million ways to skin a cat.

 

[FireIn.TheSky]

All I can say is that if it takes you less time to drive to a store and buy soil, mix it and use then something is wrong. The amount of drive time is more than all of your soil work for recycling.

Working, building a house from start to finish, getting ready for a baby and running a farm full time is what I do and my recycled soil is the least amount of work of any of them.

Just as everyone has said, without a system your flailing with recycling, once you have a real system and you don't base your soil mix on bagged garbage( maybe this is why your recycling fails) you will gain headway and not look back.

Heading to the hydro section now to complain how it sucks and Im going back to bags.

Growingcrazy, how long have you been recycling and how big is your garden?

If what you were doing was superior you'd have the best gg4 on icmag.

I looked at your albums, your gg4 is nice but it's not the best I've seen so other methods must be superior.

All of your amendments are still trucked around and bought at a hydrostore unless you are growing your own alfalfa and scooping your own animal shit you really are no more green than me.